Advice asked (Full Version)

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Sin07 -> Advice asked (10/17/2005 10:04:55 PM)

I, a 47y/o Dom, got a r/l relationship and even marriage with my sub. In the past years we found out that our boundaries concerning bdsm-play differ. I do want to do new things but she is not into it (For example I do want to involve a dominant and submissive in our play, she doesnt). The fact that my submissive also is the wife I have married, doesnt make it easier. You got lots of resposbilities together and I do not want to bring them in danger. So I dont wanna leave her for this. Also because the things both give us pleasures and fill certain needs.

My question is:
Although I dont wanna force anything, what could I do to get her that she tries the new things I like? Should I force the discussion? Should I wait until (hopefully) she starts talking about the things I want? What advices and experiences can you share how to break through this dilemma. (Excuse me for my poor english)

Thnx for your attention.
Sin07



Wolfie648 -> RE: Advice asked (10/17/2005 10:17:38 PM)

quote:

My question is:
Although I dont wanna force anything, what could I do to get her that she tries the new things I like? Should I force the discussion? Should I wait until (hopefully) she starts talking about the things I want? What advices can and experiences can you share how to break through this dilemma.


My personal experience is, it that if you are in a Dom/sub or vanilla relationship - you cannot do anything to get them to try new things that they don't want to try and the harder you try the worse it is going to get. As I have posted before I do not have a lot of charm (understanding a situation does not provide you (directly) with the means to change it) so that probably (well ok, it definitely) influenced my relationships.

You can force the discussion but it will only cause a confrontation that neither of you will enjoy.

As far as I am aware you have one life to live that you remember (at a time or not) - you need to decide what you need to do to live it as you want it.

Do you need these things so badly that you will divorce your wife? I can't answer that.

D (owner of j).






NakedOnMyChain -> RE: Advice asked (10/18/2005 12:47:49 AM)

You usually can't force people to do something they truly don't want to do. If she is merely hesitant it wouldn't hurt to talk to her in greater depth. Discussion and communication are key to any relationship. If, after lengthy discussion, she has heard your side of the story and not discounted it out of hand, yet is still unwilling to try what you'd like, you should accept her reluctance. After all, you do claim you have an equal marriage, which means that you both must give a little. It would be a shame to throw away a beautiful relationship merely because you and your wife are different people. Respect her, express your interest. Tell her how much it would mean to you. If she says no, accept it.



swtnsparkling -> RE: Advice asked (10/18/2005 2:57:07 AM)

if she says no accpet it? That's it? discussion over she gets what she wants he does'nt? hmmm. interesting. complicated.

You only have one life to live no seocnd chances. Good luck.



Focus50 -> RE: Advice asked (10/18/2005 4:00:51 AM)

Hmmm.... Seems every other dom wants to introduce a second sub into their relationships but you say you want a second dom, too??? Allowing for the BDSM factor, it sounds like you wanna get into the equivalent of vanilla swinging....? I can see that bothering or repulsing your girl beyond the normal realm of "new things", as it's an excellent way to destroy an otherwise happy relationship.

What you're brushing off as mere "new things" amounts to a pending *life decision* and I'd suggest you consider very carefully what it is you hope to gain as opposed to what you may very well lose here. This is way too big for any outsider such as myself to just say "Go for it" or that you only have one life etc.... You have the opportunity here to fuck your whole life up, probably forever, so I'm certainly not gonna validate what you're considering just because you're the dom.

If you really need this so much, be prepared to lose everything you now have in finding out.... And I hate to add this, but 44 is an excellent age for a mid-life crisis - you might wanna consider that, too! Maybe a new Harley will scratch that itch....?

Focus.



Oumae -> RE: Advice asked (10/18/2005 5:12:20 AM)

Have you discussed why she doesnt want to...what her concerns or worries are? If you knew them you might be able to work out if there was a way to help or if it is a hard limit.

Have you ever gone to a club and played in public? That may help ease some shyness/nerves.

Have you thought about why and how much you want this? You might try it and not like so is it worth losing what seems to be a good relationship otherwise over this?

Really only you can decide what is right for you.

Oumae



Sin07 -> RE: Advice asked (10/18/2005 5:42:38 AM)

Thnx for all good advices so far.
I am considering them and will get back to you here laters.



Quivver -> RE: Advice asked (10/18/2005 5:52:34 AM)

I'm with Oumae on this one, have you asked what her fears are? You say should you *force* a discussion? That sounds like a red flag when you use the word *force*. Obviously you've brought it up before, what did you hear in that conversation? I say *learn* rather then *hear* cause she may have said more with what she didnt say. IMHO it sounds like at some point you've got a break down in communication.

Q



krikket -> RE: Advice asked (10/18/2005 6:12:41 AM)

The simple answer, imho, is no, you shouldn't force her to accept others into your relationship, but things in life are rarely simple. Only the two of you should make this decision, but i do understand why you're asking others for their opinions. Personally i've never really understood why someone in a loving, committed relationship wants more than one partner (play or otherwise), but i know everyone is different and wants/needs different things. It may be a bit simplistic, but have y'all tried some role play where you're different people?

Others have suggested that you ask her more about her fears, etc., but perhaps you should ask yourself why this is so important to you, and then share that with her, in a way that's as non-threatening to your relationship as possible. Lots of us have fantasies that are better kept as just that -- fantasy -- and are better off counting our blessings for what we already have in our lives.

Good luck..
jimini




thetammyjo -> RE: Advice asked (10/18/2005 6:26:02 AM)

I'm going to assume that since you didn't mention it and you specially mentioned a marriage that you are not 24/7 owner-slave.... that has a slightly different dynamic in my opinion.

I'd talk to your wife/submissive outside of scene space and ask her if her "not into it" is the same as a limit.

There are some limits you probably should not expect to cross for example involving others simply because that pushes on trust issues and also health and safety issues. This is assuming these are limits and simply not just things she's not interest in in general.

If she just "not into it" as it is neutral or is a bit of a turn off, maybe you can think of compromises. Find out things she's interested in trying, might not be kinky mind you, might be learning to bowl or do cross stitch. Then offer to try out one thing she wants to try if she'll try out something you want to try. You both agree to really try it out and then you evaluate it. Now if you are both wise you will do a lot to try and make your desired activitiy pleasureable for the other -- thus increasing the odds you can repeat said experience.

However you might find you both dislike said activitiy or that only one of you likes it well enough to continue. That's going to be hard if you are talking about kink activities. Then you have to ask "Can I live with just the fantasy" or "Do I need other outlets".

But cross or burn that bridge when you get to it.



MasterRobert1 -> RE: Advice asked (10/18/2005 8:58:10 AM)

All you can do now is what you should have done a while ag: have a long, complete discussion with her about what you and she want, where you want to go with things, et cetera. If she's not interested, then see if she is comfortable with you doing things with other people. If she is, fine. If not, then you need to be able to reconcile your needs and wants with her. This is why this discussion needs to take place at an earlier time. Assume nothing. There is no substitute for knowing what the other person's opinion is. Knowledge of who they are, who you are, and what both of you want. Because it's that common kinkiness that really defines a BDSM D/s relationship. At least to me.



wolfinside -> RE: Advice asked (10/18/2005 9:06:32 AM)


Hello Sin07,

I think everyone here has given good advice.

Generally, I think you should respect a partners limits.

But sometimes talking etc can get them considering whether they really are limits or not.

One thing you might try, is when you and her are doing things, (sex/bondage/etc) you might try fantasizing with her about "what if another dom were here doing this or that to you etc. Maybe she is more into it than she knows.

Have you asked her if she has ever thought about having two men or a man and a woman or being shared in any way?

If so, what are her objections?

She may just feel like you would get very jealous, or that she will be looked upon differently by you afterward.

If it isn't the activity which repels her, but the fear of judgement, maybe you can reasure her about that, and she will try it. If she does try it, however, you had better make sure that you do not judge her afterward or you are going to have a real problem thereafter.

Good luck,


Wolf




BlueDevil -> RE: Advice asked (10/18/2005 9:18:43 AM)

Can you think of 5 things that you would never, under any circumstances, allow her to do? If you can, try thinking about that. It might help you understand her point of view a little better. Trying to focus on the logic of her position with regard to the ideas you have might not do that. You think those things sound great. Try five things that you think are just sick.

We all have needs, wants, desires, and people change over time, as they experience new things, as they live.

If she just thinks that the things you want to introduce are 'wrong' or 'bad', I'd say your chances of talking her into trying them are fair to bad, and that your chances of being blamed, resented, and even talking to a divorce lawyer as a result are better than average if you 'make' her do those things and she doesn't enjoy them. Even if you see her squealling and grunting while it's happening, there is always residual guilt. And anger. If she's trusting her gut, it's hard to argue with that. If it's an issue of her 'not being enough' for you, man, I just think you're going to lose.

If what you want is more important than what you stand to lose, or not, that might be your decision. Best of luck.



BlueDevil -> RE: Advice asked (10/18/2005 9:23:02 AM)

Sorry, I'm not married so this just dawned on me. You said she's your sub as well as your wife. If those thinigs you're suggesting are hard limits for her, isn't that something that you, as a dominant, can accept?

Again, good luck.



CelticPrince -> RE: Advice asked (10/18/2005 9:57:32 AM)

sino7,

you have received much input to this question and thus, I have nothing to really add, except it is yet another indication that marriage within a D/s world in is ultimate death knell to one of them.

With marriage come that certain "equality thing" that is just not compatable with D/s.

Thanks for sharing.

CP



KCMOLucky -> RE: Advice asked (10/18/2005 10:13:54 AM)

I truly just can't see someone leaving their partner because they refuse to break the fidelity of their relationship. If she doesn't want to 'swing', then you absolutely respect her limit. You've said she's your submissive, and your wife. That absolutely gives her the right to refuse to consent to being used by another, IMHO. If you wanted a slave that relinquished all control to you, that's what you should have sought. But now you have a commitment to a woman who isn't willing to participate in partner swapping, and that's her right.

Hope you get this worked out. (hug)



swtnsparkling -> RE: Advice asked (10/18/2005 4:31:53 PM)

i can understand wanting to try new things with another Dom /sub. Now where did i read he wants to swing or have sex with them, if that's the case then Heck if wife/sub says no im on her side. On the other hand my ex Dom and i have played with other Dom/subs and never did it involve sexual things. For example i was wanting to try, fire play, so with my Dom there i experienced it. This other Dom is uttelry fabulous with many different toys, double single tails, floggers fire just about everything. i watched him in awe many times, so my Dom arranged for me to be topped by him and his wonderful sub.
On a different occasion blindfolded and saran wrapped with another sub. While both Dom's proceeded to do breath play and knife play to each of us, neither of us knowing which one it was. There was never anything sexual. JUst many new and wonderful experiences. i see nothing wrong with that.



Sin07 -> RE: Advice asked (10/18/2005 8:39:49 PM)

In merely two days I got a mass of advices and replies to my question. I ve been reading them a few times and I got the feeling that all points of view to my question have been said. Every reply is useful to me. I am now thinking what road to take.
One thing I wanna add that the example I gave (involving a D or s) is just one example. This example is perhaps chosen a bit delicate overseeing some of the replies. I wanna make clear here that involving others is not meant as "swinging", on the contrary. Regarding this example, its not the sexual part that matters, only the controlling aspects of it.
Thanks again for helping me out and investing your time. If there is an developement concerning the issue I brought, I will speak about it here on this pleasant (for me a week ago unknown) platform. But as you can figure out, that could take some time (what an understatement that is).
Greetings,
Sin



MistressDREAD -> RE: Advice asked (10/19/2005 11:12:14 AM)

Sin07
The situation You discribe is not one You are facing in BDSM
I feel but One of morals with in the established relationship
and bonds of a mono marraige. You desire to expand in Your
experiances of D/s outside of the marriage, Your wife does not.
This needs to be looked at from being a Husband and Father
and not a Lifestyler nor a Master in My humble opinion.
When You both married You had distinguished what You had
in common. Your sub felt secure in this and Your relationship
evolved to a more perminant structure. Now You desire to
change that Contract of Marraige You entered into. In the
mono world Your desires are ground for divorce and loss of
a marraige and the Honor and integrity that You brought to
it in the beginning having choosen to be a part of a mono
relationship or did You both discover the rhelm of D/s
and BDSM AFTER Marraige because this does make a differeance.
Desiring to bring those outside the contract and bond of
marraige into it changes everything that formed the bond
in the first place. I can understand Yours sub reluctance to
let You change such and use the Lifestyle as its excuse for
change and discovery. You must first look inside Yourself
and ask YOUR self what it is that You want that is not different
in the marraige. Maybe the sub is confortable with the pre
arrangement of the past and present and doesent want
anything different and why should she when You have allready
commited to the pryor befor wanting something different.
This is not so easy a task to expand Ones Dominance outside
the current structure when a voe of singularity of a mono
marraige has transpired. If You feel the need to expand
Your Dominance in other areas that Your wife cannot partake
of then You have the option of discussing You going outside
the Marraige for such in agreement with Your sub or leaving
the marraige in order to explore that which You have the
desire to discover. And of course there are the every unpopular
doing everything and anything behind the peoples back that
We have professed Our Honor and Integrity and very life to
which would only not Hurt others but Your self most of all. And
goes against all proticals and rules of Our Societys of BDSM,
Be true to Your self in All actions I say Sin07 but most of all
be true to the Ones that You Yourself have gave Your Honor to.

I hope any reading this new to the Lifestyles of D/s or BDSM or
Gor understand the complexities of relationships and how choices
effect their outcomes and changes and to remember that everyting
with in Our ways is CONCENSUAL and even the risk side of what
We do is not done with out complete discussion and agreement on
All sides involved. There are situations involved that can change
the structures of relaitonships to a extream as well as peoples opinion
as life is lived and expanded apon. A person whom only seeks that
one true love with devotion at 20 could become the Master of a
Poly Home with several True Loves and devotions at 40. Be sure
that in the beginning of what ever journey you travel in life You
plan for the * unexpected* JMO



Kasia -> RE: Advice asked (10/19/2005 12:19:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: swtnsparkling

There was never anything sexual. JUst many new and wonderful experiences. i see nothing wrong with that.

And may I ask what is wrong with "anything sexual"? Why should playing with others in some other meaning be something "better" or more appropriate than having sex?!? Anything sexual can too be new and wonderful experience. It all depends on what kink you have and what you agree on.

I have no problems with my husband being involved in sex with others. I like him to enjoy himself in any way he can. And he feels the same about me. But this is consensual and agreed upon several years ago. We knew when we met that our sexual preferences are not monogamous, only gave ourself a time to establish our relationship to the point of mutual trust when we could express our polysexuality.

And it is not doing any harm to our marriage, on the contrary, we feel more connected when we can express all our deepest fantasies to each other and actually make them real.

But if any of us came up with something new, we would first talk about it and see if its acceptable for both of us, and if not why not. As we are both very much eager to please and have high level of mutual trust, so far we didnt say no to anything. But if it came up it would be discussed first and any "no" very much respected.



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