RE: Pre-World War 3 (Full Version)

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Justme696 -> RE: Pre-World War 3 (5/10/2008 8:52:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

Who is Glen Beck?



A loudmouth conservative cretin


oh ok..thank you ;)



Raechard -> RE: Pre-World War 3 (5/10/2008 8:52:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
How is their ideology fanatical? I don't see it yet. But it does relate to one of the things that seems to align with 1938, and that is many people putting sole blame on Israel.

It is a fanatical belief that that is their god given land is it not?
quote:


A ruler or head of a government, does speak for the people. Try to ignore the nits.

Indeed
quote:


Many countries were formed by what some would call terrorism. So I take it you feel that Israel is to blame? Good illustration of what I have been reading so far.

There is no blame but obviously more understanding is required and I wonder why Israel wouldn't sympathise because they have fought themselves like that in the past.
quote:


Besides the US, who else do you see as major meddlers in the Mid East?

EU, Russia, just about anyone who is in some form of international talking shop such as the UN. Tony Blair was never our PM by the way because as soon as he took the job of UK PM he moved office to the Middle East. These people's motives are their own and they are looking for a positive legacy.


(Edit: +ing, why = way)



Hippiekinkster -> RE: Pre-World War 3 (5/10/2008 8:54:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

You misunderstand me: I ask how you end up finding similarities between Iran, a country, and 1938, a year. For example, how do you feel about the Maldives and 1346?

As for your questions, I would have been more interested in reading how you answered them.
Not only that, but the similarities are really similar. Profound.



RealityLicks -> RE: Pre-World War 3 (5/10/2008 9:00:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

I'm starting to think that serious discussion on these boards is dead, Orion. Gone to hell, for some unspeakable reason.


Maybe it's just a reaction to a series of loaded questions?  It's almost impossible to build a discussion without some starting point - a statement or opinion which can be objectively understood by others. 

Maybe if the OP narrowed his focus instead of perhaps trying to lead others to reach similar conclusions to his own?

Maybe with globally-important and much-discussed international issues, statements like:
quote:


The similarities between 1938 and Iran are very weird, because they are very similar.

simply invite more adroit, if mischievous, posters to prod their author to get up to speed?

Just maybe.



kittinSol -> RE: Pre-World War 3 (5/10/2008 9:04:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

simply invite more adroit, if mischievous, posters to prod their author to get up to speed?



Should these posters be flattered or offended [&:] ?



Justme696 -> RE: Pre-World War 3 (5/10/2008 9:07:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
Who is the Great Satan and must be destroyed? Do you believe that the religious fanatcism will just be contained in the Mid East should everyone but Mid easterners withdraw? What do you believe Iran may do if they gain nuclear weapons? Why do you believe they want them? How do you feel about democracy in the world?


Iran needs to sell their oil. They would not attack, they just want a role in the world. I think 2 months ago a plant of them was attacked by Israel.
(this was 2 weeks ago in the news). I don't like treats..so I am not against bombing them.

Great Satan....mmm..difficult. I don't like religious fanatics. But I don't like people like Bush who push them either. Every fire needs it fuell to burn. LEts take away the fuell..and their is no fire.

Democracy? We dopn't have democracies that long in Europe either. It took ages..centuries.
Looking at the East, the ecomical situation..the way they believe... the way they think... like Africa. They are light years away from it.
They still think in tribes..guess that is a big issue. 

I read sometime "a continent should have every 100 years a great war". That sounds stupid. But most countries became stronger afther the wars. The survival instinct gets activated. People have to work. People have think before they act.
Perhaps that time is come for the east. Let them fight for survival. It is theirs..not ours.

And seriously...we always have been in war with them (crusades etc). I don't like the whole...we are all alike on this planet..talk. We are not..period. All wars and problems proof that.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1938
Adolf Hitler is Time magazine's "Man of the Year" , an award that usually goes to the most influential person of the year.

opinions change in a weird way   lol



Sanity -> RE: Pre-World War 3 (5/10/2008 9:12:22 AM)

My comment wasn't in reference to this thread in particular.


quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

I'm starting to think that serious discussion on these boards is dead, Orion. Gone to hell, for some unspeakable reason.


Maybe it's just a reaction to a series of loaded questions?  It's almost impossible to build a discussion without some starting point - a statement or opinion which can be objectively understood by others. 

Maybe if the OP narrowed his focus instead of perhaps trying to lead others to reach similar conclusions to his own?

Maybe with globally-important and much-discussed international issues, statements like:
quote:


The similarities between 1938 and Iran are very weird, because they are very similar.

simply invite more adroit, if mischievous, posters to prod their author to get up to speed?

Just maybe.




cyberdude611 -> RE: Pre-World War 3 (5/10/2008 9:15:02 AM)

The similarity is that Iran's leaders and Hitler wanted essentially the same things...
1. Kill off the Jews
2. Nationalism
3. Wants a nuclear weapon
The Ayatollahs support pan-Islamic nationalism. They support the idea that the muslim people in all muslim nations should overthrow their governments and join together in a confederacy of Islamic states essentially recreating the Muslim empire. That is what their message was in 1979 when they overthrew the Shah. In response the US supported Saddam Hussein's war against Iran in the 1980s to weaken the revolutionaries.

This is why there is unlikely to be any peace between the US and Iran. The day Iran becomes close to developing a nuclear weapon is the day the US bombs the living hell out of that country.



Justme696 -> RE: Pre-World War 3 (5/10/2008 9:18:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

The similarity is that Iran's leaders and Hitler wanted essentially the same things...
1. Kill off the Jews
2. Nationalism
3. Wants a nuclear weapon
The Ayatollahs support pan-Islamic nationalism. They support the idea that the muslim people in all muslim nations should overthrow their governments and join together in a confederacy of Islamic states essentially recreating the Muslim empire. That is what their message was in 1979 when they overthrew the Shah. In response the US supported Saddam Hussein's war against Iran in the 1980s to weaken the revolutionaries.

This is why there is unlikely to be any peace between the US and Iran. The day Iran becomes close to developing a nuclear weapon is the day the US bombs the living hell out of that country.


So Pakistan is Germany?

because they come closer to that then Iran ;)

PErhaps that is not nice to hear. But many parts in the world also act in this shitty way..because Europe and the USA..always know better and try to lecture them. We always want the best.to help them...but actually we just want the oil.
We should stop that..just pay for the oil..and let them be.



Raechard -> RE: Pre-World War 3 (5/10/2008 9:25:52 AM)

What price is fair for oil because it's already paid for? Just because people think oil is the reason for everything it doesn't make it so.



RealityLicks -> RE: Pre-World War 3 (5/10/2008 9:33:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
Should these posters be flattered or offended [&:] ?


Errr... If I'm totally honest, they should be neither.  It was just a description of what I saw and actually not aimed at invoking any emotional response at all. 

I'm possibly less inclined to deconstruct today's right-wing eschatology than I'd thought.



Justme696 -> RE: Pre-World War 3 (5/10/2008 9:38:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raechard

Just because people think oil is the reason for everything it doesn't make it so.


If you say that, it would be nice if you tell us the real reason.



meatcleaver -> RE: Pre-World War 3 (5/10/2008 9:43:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Can anyone name the countries in the Middle East that have democratically elected officials?

Can anyone name the countries of the Middle East that are run by those that believe in a fanatical ideology?

What type of military and economic power do these countries have?

Can anyone name the countries that wish the Jews removed from the Middle East or dead?

Are the Israeli people being blamed more today than they were 30 years ago?


Are the Jews being blamed like 30 years ago? It would help if you mentioned what happened 30 years ago.  But no, the Jews aren't being blamed, the Israelis are.

A fanatical ideology in teh middle east? Israel, materially supported by the USA.

You obviously haven't done that much reading or you wouldn't be implying that Israel is an innocent victim in the ME. The zionist movement was planning to settle on other peoples land as early as the late 19th century. They got their opening with a religious nut being in charge of British foreign policy.

Though if you read the American media then I'm not surprised you get the impression Israel is an innocent victim but if you actually study the history of the region you will find they aren't and many stories that do the rounds in the US are lies that have been told so often they have become reality in the minds of the majority Americans. ie. That Arab nations told local Arabs to leave their homes while they push the Jews into the sea. This is not true. The British told the Arans to leave their homes for their own safety not the Arabs. Arab countries did not form an aliance to destroy Israel. Syria refused to supply the local Arabs with weapons. The Jordains didn't invade Israel, they held their lines against attack by the Israelis and didn't make any attempt to invade newly formed Israel. The Isrealis policy was to masacre the local Arabs which they did in several places to send a message to the Arabs they should leave their homes or die. There were the odd masacre in reply but these were definitely a response to the initial brutality of the Israelis. In fact there have been testemonies of Israeli solders that bear this out.

As for fanatical ideology. This is what the zionist Prime Minister Ben Gurion had to say.

“We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population.”

“If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti - Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?”

“We must expel the Arabs and take their places.”
 
The Palestinians are the only subjugated people in the history of the world that are expected to garauntee the security of their oppressors.



OrionTheWolf -> RE: Pre-World War 3 (5/10/2008 9:47:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raechard

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
How is their ideology fanatical? I don't see it yet. But it does relate to one of the things that seems to align with 1938, and that is many people putting sole blame on Israel.

It is a fanatical belief that that is their god given land is it not?


Uh, that is not an ideology, it is a single belief.


quote:


A ruler or head of a government, does speak for the people. Try to ignore the nits.

Indeed
quote:


Many countries were formed by what some would call terrorism. So I take it you feel that Israel is to blame? Good illustration of what I have been reading so far.

There is no blame but obviously more understanding is required and I wonder why Israel wouldn't sympathise because they have fought themselves like that in the past.


There has actually been progress in the last 30 years, the civil rights movement in the US is still going on. It is difficult to sympathize when there are suicide bombings occuring.
quote:


quote:


Besides the US, who else do you see as major meddlers in the Mid East?

EU, Russia, just about anyone who is in some form of international talking shop such as the UN. Tony Blair was never our PM by the way because as soon as he took the job of UK PM he moved office to the Middle East. These people's motives are their own and they are looking for a positive legacy.


(Edit: +ing, why = way)


Could you narrow that down a little more? or do you not see anyone else but the Western countries meddling in other countries affairs. remember now, the Mid East is the region and there are many seperate nations there.

I do appreciate the discussion, BTW. 



Raechard -> RE: Pre-World War 3 (5/10/2008 9:48:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696
If you say that, it would be nice if you tell us the real reason.


Remember that when you talk of governments you are really talking about the politicians that are part of them. As I've already said people have egos and want credit for fixing things they see as broken as part of their legacy, this human desire has always been obvious to me.

OPEC sets the price for oil and which western governments are a member of that?

In answer to my own question; the fair price for oil is that which someone is prepared to pay for it. In my opinion it would be good if we kicked the habit so our intensions towards the Middle East could be seen as objective for once.



OrionTheWolf -> RE: Pre-World War 3 (5/10/2008 9:50:15 AM)

Was not trying to lead others to similar conclusions. I asked questions so that the answers could be used as a basis of the discussion. Gee I love everyone with the ability to read minds.


quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

I'm starting to think that serious discussion on these boards is dead, Orion. Gone to hell, for some unspeakable reason.


Maybe it's just a reaction to a series of loaded questions?  It's almost impossible to build a discussion without some starting point - a statement or opinion which can be objectively understood by others. 

Maybe if the OP narrowed his focus instead of perhaps trying to lead others to reach similar conclusions to his own?

Maybe with globally-important and much-discussed international issues, statements like:
quote:


The similarities between 1938 and Iran are very weird, because they are very similar.

simply invite more adroit, if mischievous, posters to prod their author to get up to speed?

Just maybe.




Justme696 -> RE: Pre-World War 3 (5/10/2008 9:51:53 AM)

I read once that people hate jews because they allowed "the great saviour of mankind" to be killed.
The other explanation is their will to survive and succeeding in it. While others fail.



OrionTheWolf -> RE: Pre-World War 3 (5/10/2008 9:52:47 AM)

We do pay for the oil, actually you need to look into what is backing the US currency. OPEC could shit all over us in a heartbeat. Pakistan is another country I feel that could be a problem for the region, and possibly the world.

Leave them be? Sorry but global resources are a global concern. We are just not approaching it in a way that is productive.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

The similarity is that Iran's leaders and Hitler wanted essentially the same things...
1. Kill off the Jews
2. Nationalism
3. Wants a nuclear weapon
The Ayatollahs support pan-Islamic nationalism. They support the idea that the muslim people in all muslim nations should overthrow their governments and join together in a confederacy of Islamic states essentially recreating the Muslim empire. That is what their message was in 1979 when they overthrew the Shah. In response the US supported Saddam Hussein's war against Iran in the 1980s to weaken the revolutionaries.

This is why there is unlikely to be any peace between the US and Iran. The day Iran becomes close to developing a nuclear weapon is the day the US bombs the living hell out of that country.


So Pakistan is Germany?

because they come closer to that then Iran ;)

PErhaps that is not nice to hear. But many parts in the world also act in this shitty way..because Europe and the USA..always know better and try to lecture them. We always want the best.to help them...but actually we just want the oil.
We should stop that..just pay for the oil..and let them be.



SummerWind -> RE: Pre-World War 3 (5/10/2008 9:53:28 AM)

A keg, a bag of weed and some tunes was the magic formula to bring together all walks of life when I was growing up......

The greedy, egomaniac, religious zealot leaders of those countries are incapable of rational thoughts or behaviors......probably have extremely small penises too....

That's right President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad I'm talkin to you.......



Justme696 -> RE: Pre-World War 3 (5/10/2008 9:56:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

We do pay for the oil, actually you need to look into what is backing the US currency. OPEC could shit all over us in a heartbeat. Pakistan is another country I feel that could be a problem for the region, and possibly the world.

Leave them be? Sorry but global resources are a global concern. We are just not approaching it in a way that is productive.




Before you stopped "letting them be" you had your oil at a much lower price.
Look what is costs now...in dollars and human sacrefice. What did interfering bring you? Nothing at all.
BEfore the invasion...and I am beware there are more reasons....America's financial position was better 

LEt them fight their internal wars...aslong as we get oil.

quote:

  actually you need to look into what is backing the US currency

not oil anymore it seems to me



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