Myanmar Junta Turns International Aid Into Form of Propaganda (Full Version)

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celticlord2112 -> Myanmar Junta Turns International Aid Into Form of Propaganda (5/10/2008 7:49:00 PM)

quote:

YANGON, Myanmar  —  Myanmar's military regime distributed international aid Saturday but plastered the boxes with the names of top generals in an apparent effort to turn the relief effort for last week's devastating cyclone into a propaganda exercise.

Myanmar Junta Turns International Aid Into Form of Propaganda

A perverse use of international aid.....



slaveboyforyou -> RE: Myanmar Junta Turns International Aid Into Form of Propaganda (5/10/2008 9:51:59 PM)

What do you expect from these people?  They are gangsters, plain and simple.  As far as I am concerned, we should have just air dropped in supplies and told the junta to go fuck themselves when they complained. 



PanthersMom -> RE: Myanmar Junta Turns International Aid Into Form of Propaganda (5/11/2008 1:16:16 AM)

i agree.  we should have just dropped it and let the locals deal with the distribution, to hell with their "government".  bunch of crooks make our politicians almost look respectable.
PM



Zensee -> RE: Myanmar Junta Turns International Aid Into Form of Propaganda (5/11/2008 1:31:20 AM)

While I doubt Burma has much anti aircraft capability, trouble is China is their closest ally and the Chinese might get shirty about a violation of an ally's sovereign airspace.

But if the UN invokes the "responsibility to protect" principle, member countries could deliver aid over the objections of the junta and pressure China to at least not interfere. But some countries say the "R2P" is only for acts of war and genocide and crimes against humanity - but I'd say, not allowing readily available aid to reach your dying people is a crime against humanity.


Z.





MissMorrigan -> RE: Myanmar Junta Turns International Aid Into Form of Propaganda (5/11/2008 1:41:51 AM)

And all the while we pander to the Junta, more and more people are without fresh drinking water/food/access to medical aid and are dying as a result.

It seems the US/UK are afraid of creating a diplomatic firestorm should we drop much needed air aid to those people... how many more will die before the UN steps in and forces the issue? Already a week has passed. I would have thought genocide already qualified the junta, on political grounds, for having action against them.



seeksfemslave -> RE: Myanmar Junta Turns International Aid Into Form of Propaganda (5/11/2008 2:06:47 AM)

Frankly I just wonder if the devastation caused by the cyclone is not being "hyped up" just a tad.
I wouldn't pay too much attention to champagne bleeding hearts or authoritarian generals.
Only wonderin'

adding: here's a list of damage caused by cyclones over 20 years. Note the relatively low loss of life.
http://www.imd.gov.in/section/nhac/static/cyclone-history-bb.htm



MissMorrigan -> RE: Myanmar Junta Turns International Aid Into Form of Propaganda (5/11/2008 2:37:00 AM)

Officially, more than 23k have perished, with 37k still missing... the death toll is expected to reach more than 100k as conditions worsen... I hardly call that 'hyping', Seeks. Besides, people do not have to have suffered a loss of life for there to be devastation and in desperate need of aid, agreed?



seeksfemslave -> RE: Myanmar Junta Turns International Aid Into Form of Propaganda (5/11/2008 2:43:35 AM)

My point is MsM, where are these stats. coming from ?
If you look thru' the numbers in the that link I provided it seems more cattle than humans died.

I agree help should be provided if it is requested.
I just get the feeling this incident has all the hallmarks of today's fashionable cause.
I may be wrong. We shall see.



Zensee -> RE: Myanmar Junta Turns International Aid Into Form of Propaganda (5/11/2008 3:05:27 AM)

Dead link, seeks. (Where are your stats coming from?)

Let's just sit with our thumbs up our asses and see if the bodies start really piling up before we do anything, right? Show us the corpses than we'll show you the money.

We know the country does not have the heavy lift capacity to get supplies to the needy, be they a thousand or a hundred thousand. The people who need the help have no way to "request" it, because they are either totally isolated or their communications are strictly controlled by the junta.

How much suffering does it take before a cause goes from "fashionable" to real? How many corpses? Does it have to be your suffering to make it real?



Z.




slaveboyforyou -> RE: Myanmar Junta Turns International Aid Into Form of Propaganda (5/11/2008 3:08:21 AM)

You know seeks, I am generally a cynic.  I normally would be skeptical, but I have been educating myself on Burma.  I confess that I didn't know that much about them until the last protests happened before this cyclone. 

The government there really is a bunch of bastards.  For the last 20 years, they have been committing genocide on various ethnic minorities.  They have refused to recognize the results of the last true democratic election in that country and have kept the winner under house arrest since 1990.  The government there is just a military fiefdom, and they will do anything to hold on to their power. 

I have little doubt that the death toll is that high.  Most of the damage happened in the coastal areas where most of these people live.  They have little access to the outside world, so I imagine they didn't have any warning about the storm.  It really is sad.  If we are going to have a UN, than by God the resolutions should hold some weight.  We shouldn't wait around while hundreds of thousands of people die. 





MissMorrigan -> RE: Myanmar Junta Turns International Aid Into Form of Propaganda (5/11/2008 3:27:24 AM)

I got your point, Seeks, but fail to see why the focus is on that given we already know the political inclination of the Burmese govt. Whether it be 100 in 1976 in Andhra, 10,000 in Orissa 1971 (from your own resources) or 23,000 in Myanmar - a goverment refusing much-needed aid to its people is reprehensible. The UN was promoted in 1945 to ensure countries commiting gross acts against human rights were themselves acted against.



seeksfemslave -> RE: Myanmar Junta Turns International Aid Into Form of Propaganda (5/11/2008 3:46:03 AM)

In a really authoritarian society it wouldn't be that difficult to make it seem as tho' it was the government that was providing the aid. In fact the OP says that is what they have already done.
So the question occurs to me, why such a fuss over this incident ?
Do we believe it really is humanitarian in origin. For some I am sure....but for all.?

After all if the Generals suspect political interference then they will resist. That does not make it right, its just what will happen.
Pragmatism I say....works nearly every time.

As I say these are my feelings about the incident. I have no special insight.
I most definately am not defending the Generals.



DomAviator -> RE: Myanmar Junta Turns International Aid Into Form of Propaganda (5/11/2008 5:13:29 AM)

Screw them. Sit this one out - not our problem. Sit on the sidelines and let the starving masses get pissed and launch a civil war and they can overthrow their tyrants. I seem to recall a time not so long ago when we went to go feed a bunch of starving folks over in Africa and they were so grateful for our aid that they were dragging dead helicopter pilots through the streets by their intestines, mutilating the corpses of Army rangers, etc...

What I want to know is if a hurricane hits Houston this summer (God Forbid) how eager are they gonna be to get in to help me? Every MRE that goes in a Burmeese belly is one less to be airdropped over Clear Lake, Kemah, or Sea Brook if needed. (Admittedly Im not in the boat the NOLA people were, I am probably better prepared than FEMA but many arent.)



pahunkboy -> RE: Myanmar Junta Turns International Aid Into Form of Propaganda (5/11/2008 5:21:35 AM)

it means nothing.

the govt is not in control. we can do what we want. who would stop it?

the fear would be that other countries would be afriad of US agression.  oops.  but really- WHAT would they do if we did an airdrop?  sue us? bomb us?  



LadyEllen -> RE: Myanmar Junta Turns International Aid Into Form of Propaganda (5/11/2008 9:22:36 AM)

And whats also interesting, is that this part of Burma is where they grow their rice and from where they export rice to neighbouring countries. At a time when shortages of rice are driving prices beyond the reach of many, the apparent loss of the crops and indeed those who grow them, is not good news.

Still, the glorious leaders of Burma will solve the problem. Fewer mouths in a country means it consumes less food.

E



popeye1250 -> RE: Myanmar Junta Turns International Aid Into Form of Propaganda (5/11/2008 11:08:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan

And all the while we pander to the Junta, more and more people are without fresh drinking water/food/access to medical aid and are dying as a result.

It seems the US/UK are afraid of creating a diplomatic firestorm should we drop much needed air aid to those people... how many more will die before the UN steps in and forces the issue? Already a week has passed. I would have thought genocide already qualified the junta, on political grounds, for having action against them.


Here we go again.
Why is it always left up to the "U.S./U.K." to do things?
We're only two of what, 195 countries in the world?
And China, a "superpower" right next door!



celticlord2112 -> RE: Myanmar Junta Turns International Aid Into Form of Propaganda (5/11/2008 11:12:27 AM)

quote:

Here we go again.
Why is it always left up to the "U.S./U.K." to do things?
We're only two of what, 195 countries in the world?
And China, a "superpower" right next door!

I'm guessing it's all those imperialistic "sins" we should be atoning for....



cyberdude611 -> RE: Myanmar Junta Turns International Aid Into Form of Propaganda (5/11/2008 11:41:55 AM)

We drop food and supplies to a population who is dying because their stupid government is too paranoid to let in relief workers.... yet that will translate to other countries fearing US aggression?

I think it teaches other countries a lesson that the world as a whole is not going to stand idle while a totalitarian government lets 100,000+ people die because of the government's own political agendas.

What you do is get France, Britain, Germany, US, and however many other countries involved and just tell the world they are going to violate the aitspace to get food to the population and if they dont like it, tough shit. And just do it. China may bitch and moan, but they aint going to start World War 3 because of a humanitarian operation. In the end, the countries that helped will appear stronger and have the moral high ground in the international community.



popeye1250 -> RE: Myanmar Junta Turns International Aid Into Form of Propaganda (5/11/2008 12:24:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

Here we go again.
Why is it always left up to the "U.S./U.K." to do things?
We're only two of what, 195 countries in the world?
And China, a "superpower" right next door!

I'm guessing it's all those imperialistic "sins" we should be atoning for....



Celticlord, we need to start minding our own business.
As a Taxpayer I simply don't want to pay for Imperialism or to be the "rescue service" or "world policeman" anymore.
There's a lot of things that our govt. "shouldn't" be doing.



MissMorrigan -> RE: Myanmar Junta Turns International Aid Into Form of Propaganda (5/11/2008 12:34:07 PM)

I should imagine that's evident - we have no problem meddling in others' affairs when it suits us, afterall, we both seem to have a tradition for it. As for China, that's what they're banking on, people like you shitting their pants in fear... yellow fever. They will not want to involve themselves in this affair given their own problems. Next time I post and include the US/UK, I will take note to mention every other country that should also aid, just for you, Popeye.



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