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Dominant pride - 5/11/2008 3:15:33 AM

Prinsexx

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Sorry: opening post as below I don't know how I got posted twice.

< Message edited by Prinsexx -- 5/11/2008 3:48:50 AM >

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RE: Dominant pride - 5/11/2008 3:17:09 AM

Prinsexx

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Here are some definitions of pride:
1. a high or inordinate opinion of one's own dignity, importance, merit, or superiority, whether as cherished in the mind or as displayed in bearing, conduct, etc.
2. the state or feeling of being proud.
3. a becoming or dignified sense of what is due to oneself or one's position or character; self-respect; self-esteem.
4. pleasure or satisfaction taken in something done by or belonging to oneself or believed to reflect credit upon oneself
5. something that causes a person or persons to be proud
6. the best of a group, class, society.
I have experienced some of those things in dominants that I have known/played with and am experiencing this in communication with dominants I am emailing. I find it expresses itself in phrases like:
~15 years experience in the lifestyle~, or ~I train them like that~ and so forth.
I find pride to be both integral to a dominants nature yet also sometimes like a deceit, something that demeans me and makes me feel that, as a submissive, I have no way of proving or indeed of stating experience in such a way.
I would like to know from dom(me)s reading this if they feel pride or see it expressed by others and from subs if they feel pride and how they see it expressed in others and whether it is a necessary or useful component of character.

< Message edited by Prinsexx -- 5/11/2008 3:18:02 AM >

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RE: Dominant pride - 5/11/2008 3:40:36 AM

mastervalentine

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Personally I find pride to be a meaningless, and trivial concept. I say this because most of the "pride" anyone seems to have is devoted to the "good old days", or boasting arrogantly about tomorrow.

I would much prefer dignity, since it is closer to actual respect for oneself, one's work, one's home, and one's company than pride could ever be.

Just an opinion.

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Say not, 'I have found the truth,' but rather, 'I have found a truth.' Kahlil Gibran

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RE: Dominant pride - 5/11/2008 4:00:38 AM

Prinsexx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mastervalentine

I would much prefer dignity, since it is closer to actual respect for oneself, one's work, one's home, and one's company than pride could ever be.

Yes dignity is a more 'positive' 'good' word. I'm not feeling that clever with words this morning. I was suggesting that pride had this unjustified elememt to it that creates a distance a reserve in dominant attitudes, something that acts as a cover up almost for lack of experience or expressive of the need to feel that experience is necessary. oh am I making sense?

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RE: Dominant pride - 5/11/2008 4:08:37 AM

MidMichCowboy

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How about pride as an inner confidence in yourself. I have lived life (far from perfectly), but I have survived to become who I am. I'm a great father, a good friend and a good horseman (yea, I don't know what that has to do with anything either). I have a sense of humor about myself as well as an acceptance of what I've done right and hopefully I've learned from my mistakes. I realize I am not perfect, but I'm OK with that. I realize I'm not Superman or a legendary Casanova. I'm just me .. and that is OK.

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RE: Dominant pride - 5/11/2008 4:13:33 AM

mastervalentine

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I'm operating off of three days of insomnia, very little makes sense to me at first. (It took me a good five minutes to decide how to phrase my opinions.)

It has been my experience that pride without dignity is nothing more than a poorly constructed facade. Put it under the spotlight, give it tough questions, and it'll crumble.

Dignity keeps pride like a shadow, if you question it, you may not get the answers you want, but the answers you get will be beyond reproach.

_____________________________

"If philosophy has taught me any one thing, it is that a rushed action invites disaster." ~MasterValentine

Say not, 'I have found the truth,' but rather, 'I have found a truth.' Kahlil Gibran

(in reply to Prinsexx)

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RE: Dominant pride - 5/11/2008 4:21:21 AM

Deliena

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I think Prinsexxx that the reason "pride" tends to get a negative connotation goes back to the fact it's one of the Seven Deadly Sins - even those who follow other religions, are agnostic or aetheist are aware of the connotation and it's a fairly stable meme. Interesting that we want people to take pride in their acomplishments and have pride in themselves but if we perceive them as being "proud" to too great a degree it is considered a character flaw.

Not sure I've added anything, but it's given me something other than my essay on disturbing behaviour in children to think about today! LOL, thanks.

(in reply to mastervalentine)

Post #: 7

RE: Dominant pride - 5/11/2008 4:34:29 AM

batshalom

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx
something that demeans me and makes me feel that, as a submissive, I have no way of proving or indeed of stating experience in such a way.
I would like to know from from subs if they feel pride and how they see it expressed in others and whether it is a necessary or useful component of character.

Hey Prin. ~smiling~ Interesting topic.

If I had no pride in myself, I feel I would be useless to a Dom; and similarly, if he had no pride, he would not be the Dom for me. I might be misunderstanding how you are using the word though. Pride, to me, is a quiet thing. It isn't boastful or a braggart. Pride is the way one carries oneself, gracefully (D's and s's alike).

I was recently told, however, that I am only a fake wannabe sub who would do better at prostitution than at submitting, and so my advice here might be totally out of line, since pride will obviously be my downfall. ~chuckle~

(in reply to Prinsexx)

Post #: 8

RE: Dominant pride - 5/11/2008 4:39:09 AM

Owner4SexSlave

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Me personally, I'm not one to Boast about having X number of years experience, or that I train anybody like anyway.   First and foremost, I've been in/out of BDSM lifestyle relationships over the years, and gasp have had a few Kinky Vanilla (non D/s based or partial power exchange) relationships (if you can understand). Second when it comes to training somebody. It's never the same way twice, and actually it depends upon strengths and weakness in the submissive, as well as desire to serve.   I don't have a training manual set in stone, and in all honestly, I would have to go back and count the days up while being in a lifestyle relationship, somehow magically figure out everyday that I engaged in a BDSM play activitity since I was teenager, then total it all up.

Then also there is the Quality vs. Quantity factor for experience. Experience itself is a generalized term.   How experienced is very experienced? How experienced is 15 years compared to 5 years between two different people.  Is TPE Experience or just bedroom BDSM kink play?  Was it 24/7 live in experience or weekend warrior?

Personally, I will engage in sharing experiences I've experienced without expressing things in terms of calendar years.   I will express things I have done, or handle things in the past.  I will talk about BDSM activities, my experience, views and personal belief and morals on things.

Not everything I have experienced, am I proud about, often mistakes are a great source of experience in life itself.   I am proud of certain things I have done in my life. Yes, I do have an Ego just like anybody else.

I however, can not package it all up in a small blurb, and say I have X number years and I own a manual on it that I've written. My life has been far too diverse to sum it up so cold and simple.

(in reply to Prinsexx)

Post #: 9

RE: Dominant pride - 5/11/2008 4:40:27 AM

RavenMuse

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I oft feel proud.... of My girl more-so than of Myself. Many Doms/Masters/Mistresses of My aquaintence are likewise. When We achieve something, no matter how difficult it is only what We expect of ourselves, so nothing special. But when We are helping, coaxing, supporting or even forcing Our s type through something We know is very hard for them We tend to acknowledge the amount of effort involved far more than when We are the ones applying that effort... We are proud of Our possession for that effort, Accept our part in it but it is them We are proud of.

That extends to others too.... all to often in the kink community in general if a Dominant achieves something then the responce is low key, They are expected to achieve results and doing so is 'normal'... but an s type, even not Ours... "Wow good girl. Well done" and their D smiles and is rightfully proud of them.

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RE: Dominant pride - 5/11/2008 4:44:58 AM

Prinsexx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MidMichCowboy

I'm just me .. and that is OK.

It sure is.

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RE: Dominant pride - 5/11/2008 4:46:19 AM

MladyHathor

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Good Morning Darlings!

Prinsexx----I see it (IMHO) more as an arrogance versus pride ( and both are dangerous.) I think there is way too much confusion between dominance and domineering, and arrogance versus self confidence.

They seem to take the approach that being a Dominant somehow elevates them in society----ppffftttt. Ergo--arrogance. Sure I feel pride, a healthy dose is just that--but does it keep Me from admitting weaknesses--no, does it keep Me from admitting I don't know of things--no--it also doesn't keep Me from listening to, wanting to learn from and admiring experience in others.

But at the end of the day---that's as MidMich said----just Me---through and through.

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The Mistress Hathor, always and forever, much to the disdain and discomfort of others.

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RE: Dominant pride - 5/11/2008 4:48:49 AM

Prinsexx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

I oft feel proud.... of My girl more-so than of Myself.

The quiet ones......the D types who are proud of their property, yes, it's really very lovely written down and read about in that way.

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Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
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To my stalker:
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Post #: 13

RE: Dominant pride - 5/11/2008 4:50:28 AM

Prinsexx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MladyHathor

Good Morning Darlings!

Prinsexx----I see it (IMHO) more as an arrogance versus pride ( and both are dangerous.) I think there is way too much confusion between dominance and domineering, and arrogance versus self confidence.

They seem to take the approach that being a Dominant somehow elevates them in society----ppffftttt. Ergo--arrogance. Sure I feel pride, a healthy dose is just that--but does it keep Me from admitting weaknesses--no, does it keep Me from admitting I don't know of things--no--it also doesn't keep Me from listening to, wanting to learn from and admiring experience in others.

But at the end of the day---that's as MidMich said----just Me---through and through.

Then good morning darling too.

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Owner of asterion

Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
Free woman
Resident thread finisher
To my stalker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN2lP_7J7GI&feature=fvwrel

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Post #: 14

RE: Dominant pride - 5/11/2008 4:55:34 AM

Prinsexx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner4SexSlave

Then also there is the Quality vs. Quantity factor for experience. Experience itself is a generalized term. How experienced is very experienced? How experienced is 15 years compared to 5 years between two different people. Is TPE Experience or just bedroom BDSM kink play? Was it 24/7 live in experience or weekend warrior?

Personally, I will engage in sharing experiences ..............
Not everything I have experienced, am I proud about, often mistakes are a great source of experience in life itself. I am proud of certain things I have done in my life. Yes, I do have an Ego just like anybody else.

Then could I ask you, as your words promted this question: have you ever had an experience with an s-type that has humbled you or sent you back to the drawing board?....question for any oneelse also.

_____________________________

Owner of asterion

Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
Free woman
Resident thread finisher
To my stalker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN2lP_7J7GI&feature=fvwrel

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Post #: 15

RE: Dominant pride - 5/11/2008 5:00:00 AM

Prinsexx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: batshalom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx
something that demeans me and makes me feel that, as a submissive, I have no way of proving or indeed of stating experience in such a way.
I would like to know from from subs if they feel pride and how they see it expressed in others and whether it is a necessary or useful component of character.

Hey Prin. ~smiling~ Interesting topic.

If I had no pride in myself, I feel I would be useless to a Dom; and similarly, if he had no pride, he would not be the Dom for me. I might be misunderstanding how you are using the word though. Pride, to me, is a quiet thing. It isn't boastful or a braggart. Pride is the way one carries oneself, gracefully (D's and s's alike).

I was recently told, however, that I am only a fake wannabe sub who would do better at prostitution than at submitting, and so my advice here might be totally out of line, since pride will obviously be my downfall. ~chuckle~

My original use of the word when I opened the thread was yes, I admit, negative as I had felt a boastful pride in certain 'come ons' in mail from doms and it just instantly is a turn of. any mention of 15 years etc experience in the lifestyle and I personally cannot read another line.
But now I am beginning to see the concept of pride in a different light.
As for 'wannabe sub', you'd make a better fuck-whore or words to that effect.....what a gorgeous thing for a masochistic girl like me to hear....smiles.

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Owner of asterion

Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
Free woman
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To my stalker:
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Post #: 16

RE: Dominant pride - 5/11/2008 5:03:24 AM

Owner4SexSlave

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner4SexSlave

Then also there is the Quality vs. Quantity factor for experience. Experience itself is a generalized term. How experienced is very experienced? How experienced is 15 years compared to 5 years between two different people. Is TPE Experience or just bedroom BDSM kink play? Was it 24/7 live in experience or weekend warrior?

Personally, I will engage in sharing experiences ..............
Not everything I have experienced, am I proud about, often mistakes are a great source of experience in life itself. I am proud of certain things I have done in my life. Yes, I do have an Ego just like anybody else.

Then could I ask you, as your words promted this question: have you ever had an experience with an s-type that has humbled you or sent you back to the drawing board?....question for any oneelse also.

Oh man, now I have to fess up to this one! Hell Yes, is my answer to you two questions. In terms of the drawing board, perhaps for long range goals or plans. Hey, I'm only human and what somebody does or says does make me think twice from time to time. It's simply part of life and who I am as a human. There's no rule in the book that says being Dom means being always right or perfect and free from faults.

(in reply to Prinsexx)

Post #: 17

RE: Dominant pride - 5/11/2008 5:05:21 AM

Prinsexx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deliena

I think Prinsexxx that the reason "pride" tends to get a negative connotation goes back to the fact it's one of the Seven Deadly Sins - even those who follow other religions, are agnostic or aetheist are aware of the connotation and it's a fairly stable meme. Interesting that we want people to take pride in their acomplishments and have pride in themselves but if we perceive them as being "proud" to too great a degree it is considered a character flaw.

Not sure I've added anything, but it's given me something other than my essay on disturbing behaviour in children to think about today! LOL, thanks.

Then maybe thinking about this might help with regard to disturbing behaviour in kids....my mom, (bless her) mostly used to do that mixed message thing....whereby she SAID she was so proud of us (me and sis) and she used to boast of us like that as if we were an extension of her actions rather than she was proud of us for who and what WE were.
So being proud rather than taking ride in yes I think it's a different use and you have contributed a huge bit of my understanding there.
Yes and it extends to how I have felt around certain relationships...a D who has refferred to me merely as an extension of their actions rather than ever paying me a compliment(sp?) or rewarding me with acknowledgement at least some of the time. Too late after I have walked to say you were actually lovely and I miss you.

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Owner of asterion

Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
Free woman
Resident thread finisher
To my stalker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN2lP_7J7GI&feature=fvwrel

(in reply to Deliena)

Post #: 18

RE: Dominant pride - 5/11/2008 5:13:53 AM

batshalom

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

Then could I ask you, as your words promted this question: have you ever had an experience with an s-type that has humbled you or sent you back to the drawing board?....question for any oneelse also.

Ohhh yeahhhh! I was the poster child for self-loathing at one time, and I was feeling pretty rotten about myself for not having done something correctly. I used to beat myself up pretty well, in fact. King took me aside and said, "That's right, use it to make yourself feel worse. I'll ride your ass like a cheap bike too." He went on to tell me to see that he set me up to fail, just to see if I'd keep trying, and I did, and that's all he could ask for.

He said that life was the same way - that I'd fail at times - but if I allowed myself to wallow in it and let it keep me down (and take me farther and farther down the more I wallowed) then I'd be a failure. He taught me to use it to keep my self-esteem and to think in different ways so that failure wasn't wasted. "Did I try my best? What did I do wrong? What could I have done better?" then shrug and do those things next time.

It also helped me to transfer knowledge from one situation to another, which can be a difficult thing to do, helping me see the abstract puzzle underneath the surface structure of the situation and to see "Oh, I've been here before and I know what to do."

(in reply to Prinsexx)

Post #: 19

RE: Dominant pride - 5/11/2008 5:13:56 AM

Deliena

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From: Darlington, United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx
Then maybe thinking about this might help with regard to disturbing behaviour in kids....my mom, (bless her) mostly used to do that mixed message thing....whereby she SAID she was so proud of us (me and sis) and she used to boast of us like that as if we were an extension of her actions rather than she was proud of us for who and what WE were.
So being proud rather than taking ride in yes I think it's a different use and you have contributed a huge bit of my understanding there.
Yes and it extends to how I have felt around certain relationships...a D who has refferred to me merely as an extension of their actions rather than ever paying me a compliment(sp?) or rewarding me with acknowledgement at least some of the time. Too late after I have walked to say you were actually lovely and I miss you.

Well your example is actually very useful fodder for my essay as it is around transactional models (how interraction rather than one-off cause and effect) affect how we perceive "disturbing behaviour" and even how we categorise it. So many thanks for sharing that with us.

To go back on topic (and thus avoid the wrath of Mod11 <lol>) If we are never made aware that our acomplishments have had any effect it reduces the desire to achieve anything, so any D type who doesn't in some way reward or acknowledge effort and growth in their s is very likely to lose them, often to the detriment of both parties. Whilst I'm in a s position in my current relationship when on the D side of the slash I try to ensure that no good deed goes unmentioned, I feel that in this way both (or all in the case of poly situations) partners get what they need and it is then possible from the D perspective to begin work or a more challenging topic.

Hope this helps somewhat and hinders little :)

(in reply to Prinsexx)

Post #: 20

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