Submission and religion (Full Version)

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Nightlander -> Submission and religion (5/11/2008 10:13:21 PM)

Recently, I met a girl, a submissive, who was religious, as opposed to my own agnostism. This raised an issue that had never come up before, in my experience- the possibility of having a relationship with someone with a radically different belief system.

On some level, I feel this would cause a lack of connection, and would impede any relationship. I am curious, how many submissives have had issues with their Masters/Dominants, and has anyone experienced a Dominant who insisted on religious compliance, or conversion?



Honsoku -> RE: Submission and religion (5/11/2008 10:34:52 PM)

There are undoubtedly dominants that have required a religious conversion. Whether or not they got it is a whole other story.

Now for the real issue: whether or not it would impede a relationship depends largely on how important religion (or the lack of it) is to both of you. Unless the religion is practiced in a very time intensive way or would intercede regularly during times when you are together, the effect should be minimal.



abqowner -> RE: Submission and religion (5/11/2008 10:39:26 PM)

Hope you don't mind an answer from an owner.  This issue has, just recently, started to become pretty common even in the interview process.  I've always had a policy that I own a slave heart and mind, but do not have enough hubris to claim their soul.  In the past I've enjoyed learning the POV of someone of a different faith than mine.

Recently, however, I've started seeing religious demanding rather than requesting.  There's been a few cases where I simply passed because I was told something like "You own me Monday - Saturday, but Sunday is for my God!".  Like they were launching a pre-emptive strike.  I think it's interesting, if not defensive.  Who knows?  I might have agreed to it, if given half a chance.



justaDallasgirl -> RE: Submission and religion (5/11/2008 11:43:08 PM)

Master knows that if He forced me to chose between Him and God -- God would win.

for my other views on this subject check out another posting on here something about two worlds or just click on my name ;-)

have a great night



Devoura -> RE: Submission and religion (5/11/2008 11:58:05 PM)

I think that the amount one's religion affects their lifestyle would determine the amount it would affect their lifestyle with another person. I'm an atheist and I've had partners and friends of many religions. While there was a difference in belief systems, it never caused a problem for me as long as there was a mutual respect for one's freedom to believe, or not believe, whatever they want. I think this is because, while an individual's system of belief may vary, their views on what is important in a lifestyle can definitely match those of others, regardless of faith or non-faith.

Personally, I've never had a Dom attempt try to 'convert' me, and it probably will never happen. If your religious beliefs are such a strong part of your person that you need to find another person with similar beliefs to achieve a desired level of connection, then I say keep searching for that person. Using one's 'Dominance' to force religious conversion upon another strikes me as not only an immoral practice, but as a futile one.



MasterFireMaam -> RE: Submission and religion (5/12/2008 12:56:27 AM)

I know many Ms couples who have different spiritualities. One Christian buddhist owns a Muslim...one Buddhist monk owns a Druid Arch Bishop as well as a Christian...and so on...

It'll be a hindrance if you let it, or if a shared belief system is REALLY important to you.

Master Fire



stella41b -> RE: Submission and religion (5/12/2008 1:29:08 AM)

Start playing around with my spiritual and religious belief system and you start playing around with not only a major motivating factor behind my submission but also an integral part of who I am.

I mean, what is really important here? Is it the love of God or is it the label which is attached to that love, the name of that love, as it were? I mean, I'm not a Christian, but if I were to put a cross on my wall and turn up at a church and sit through a service it could be understood that I am a Christian or have become a Christian, even though the cross doesn't have the same significance for me as it would a Christian and I could sit listening to the words of the pastor or priest knowing I'm not a Christian but still getting the same out of his words as a Christian. I could kneel and pray like everyone else, it would still be prayer, but I wouldn't need to change my beliefs to be able to do so.

This has been an issue for me only once where a potential Domme who was a Wiccan wanted me to convert to Wicca - I follow my own interpretation of Theravada Buddhism. But when we discussed it in more detail and made a detail comparison of the hierarchy of values and the different beliefs we came to the conclusion that it wasn't radically different and wouldn't really affect our relationship and so it came down to mutual respect.

I'm struggling to see how it would cause a lack of connection.. My beliefs are part of me, the whole person, and I come as a whole person, it shapes my attitudes, the way I see the world and other people. My religion and my beliefs is something which is important to me, it's not something I pick up and put down like a book or discard easily.

It doesn't prevent me in any way establishing some sort of emotional or psychological connection (which I'm assuming is the sort of connection you have in mind) with other people even if they don't share my beliefs - which very few do - or my way of looking at other people or the world - which nobody else does, because I am, like you, and everyone else, an individual in my own right.



mastersvixen -> RE: Submission and religion (5/12/2008 4:27:27 AM)

I'm pagan and it is MY belief system, I don't at any time expect anyone to "convert" to my faith and the person I chose to be with would I hope respect that.  Isn't it true of any belief system that the key and universal word is LOVE ????  And yes I fully agree stella41b our beliefs are part of WHO we are to change that would change the person we are inside.



lizcgirl -> RE: Submission and religion (5/12/2008 7:55:47 AM)

I'm a pagan, I don't force my views on any one, no matter the situation. Even in a vanilla relationship I wouldn't be with some one who woud try and force their religion on me because I consider it rude and insulting. I don't come to you and tell you 'this is how it is, this is what you will believe, this is the god you will bow to' so I wouldn't allow some one else to. Now in a D/s or M/s relationship I lose the choice to object if my Master decides what religion I would follow, which is why compatability is so important.  My belief system is important to me, it was discussed before I offered myself, and I am allowed to keep my religion and my practices. Every one just has to decide how high of a priority it is for them and whether or not they are willing to give it up for their relationship.



Shawn1066 -> RE: Submission and religion (5/12/2008 8:20:04 AM)

I don't believe I personally have a religious preference when it comes to knowing/being close to people.  Religiously, my Owner and I are very similar...so that's good.  I don't, however, believe I could have ever belonged to a milatant anybody.

DV's Sleepy Foxen



abcbsex -> RE: Submission and religion (5/12/2008 8:21:31 AM)

Perhaps instead of trying to convert her, as your owner you can help her be better in her religion. I guess I think of an owner encouraging his(or her) submissive to be the best person they can be, and if religion is a part of that equation for them, why not make sure they're strong in that? You don't have to convert yourself, but some research into what she believes can help you support that. you don't say what religion she is but many parallel D/s quite nicely.

For an example, I am an atheist, through and through. I was raised baptist and know the bible better than some christians out there. One of my best friends is a christian and while she's still confused about my atheism, whenever she's having a hard time in life I look at things with a christian perspective to try and help her, because that's her mindset. While atheism clicks for me, it doesn't for her, but we can still encourage each other in ways that respect our beliefs. Maybe if you have that mindset towards a potential sub you two can work it out. Best of luck!



DiurnalVampire -> RE: Submission and religion (5/12/2008 8:31:15 AM)

My Angel is a rather devout Christian. There was never a question whether or not it would get in "the way". It has defined several of his limits, and has altered our schedules slightly (I go with him to church on Sunday mornings. We can play any other time, but that is pretty well off limits) I dont expect him to change his beliefs for me, nor do I expect him to try and force his beliefs ON me. We agree to appreciate our respective positions, as long as they do not interfere with anything.

Fox already commented for himself. The only religious discusion we have ever had has been one of the wedding ceremony. That was fairly simply taken care of, as well, we arent choosing one, we are going without a religious ceremony so that neither side is insulted by the decision.

DV



abcbsex -> RE: Submission and religion (5/12/2008 8:43:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire

Fox already commented for himself. The only religious discusion we have ever had has been one of the wedding ceremony. That was fairly simply taken care of, as well, we arent choosing one, we are going without a religious ceremony so that neither side is insulted by the decision.

DV



Just an aside, Alpha and I had a non-religious ceremony officiated by a celebrant from the Universal Unitarians.... It had everyone in tears and even my hardcore baptist mother said that it was so much more personal than anything a pastor would have said.



MladyHathor -> RE: Submission and religion (5/12/2008 8:53:37 AM)

IMHO religion like politics I will allow to coexist side by side with Mine--just don't convert Me, don't shove it dpwn My throat and don't use it to manipulate.



Mercnbeth -> RE: Submission and religion (5/12/2008 9:03:02 AM)

Master did not insist this slave convert to any religion.  He wasn't/isn't interested in owning or controlling her soul, or her communion with the divine.
 
her vanilla sister however, negotiated a conversion from her religion of choice to that of her future husband, as a condition of engagement and marriage.  She was allowed to hold the marriage in the place of her choice, with her Pastor, but had to have His priest officiate alongside, which included the "recitation of faith" which denounces all other religions, along with His relatives on the groom's side of the aisle.  she completed the conversion within a year, they have been married for 12.



subsfaith -> RE: Submission and religion (5/12/2008 9:46:18 AM)

Many moons ago I was considering being taken on by an owner, but one of the stumbling blocks was his hard-line politics.  I couldn't give him my vote when I didn't believe what he was preaching.

As for religion, I am each to thier own, I have my beliefs and I would ask that they are respected, very similar to my politics.

Faith
:: smiles ::



AquaticSub -> RE: Submission and religion (5/12/2008 10:26:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nightlander

I am curious, how many submissives have had issues with their Masters/Dominants, and has anyone experienced a Dominant who insisted on religious compliance, or conversion?


I wouldn't say issues, but my own faith has caused a few minor hiccups. When I felt drawn to a religion other than the one I was raised in, we talked seriously about my converting and what it would mean to him. He respects that I am religious and I respect that he isn't. Since we are in this for the long haul, are engaged and will have children together, there are things that needed to be worked out and decided on so that we are both are happy.

While I haven't personally met one, online or off, I'm sure there is someone who required conversion. If it was real conversion or simply going through the motions is another matter entirely. I know that regardless of how far along we were in the relationship, an order to convert to a religion I didn't believe in simply wouldn't be obeyed. No matter if I was released, kept, or decided I must leave, I could not obey that order.



yoglive21 -> RE: Submission and religion (5/12/2008 2:14:30 PM)

I believe that finding someone with the same beliefs is important. Like you said it helps with the connection with a relationship. I do not agree in making some convert because they are with me, nor do I agree with making them comply to the beliefs supported by the religion.  I do however disagree with pushing someone to do something that goes against their beliefs.

Secretly feeding pork to a Jew is just as wrong as forcing an atheist to pray to a god.



MasterKalif -> RE: Submission and religion (5/12/2008 5:42:24 PM)

I like to think that religion for me is secondary...meaning I value things in common more than what brings people apart and I tolerate their religious views as long as they don't impose it on me, or tirelessly refer to God in every other sentence which for me, gets tiresome. I dislike fanatism of the religious kind of any creed...I amopen to other religions, but usually other religions do not seem to be as open for those who are not part of their belief system, which in my opinion sucks. Hence some Muslim girls will not go out with Christians, Jewish girls that want to only go out with Jewish guys, and buddhist with buddhist you get the idea. The less religious for me, the better, more open minded and the horizons are endless....



MadRabbit -> RE: Submission and religion (5/12/2008 6:56:13 PM)

It's really a question of how aware you are of what your beliefs are and how these beliefs will differ from other peoples. After bouncing around a lot with the whole spiritual issue myself, I decided what was in line with what I really thought was Atheism.

However, this philosophy toward religion and theology is mine and mine alone and I will gladly support whatever spiritual path someone chooses. I found what was best for me and true to my self and other people have to find theirs.

As long as our morals and values are compatible, then the rest is water under the bridge.



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