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Einstein and G*d - 5/12/2008 4:47:36 PM

RealityLicks

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Both believers and atheists have claimed in the past that Einstein shared their views. A letter which goes on sale later today should make his position completely clear.

quote:

In the letter, he states: "The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/may/12/peopleinscience.religion

So I suppose god doesn't play dice with the universe. Chiefly because you need to exist in order to play dice.

< Message edited by RealityLicks -- 5/12/2008 4:48:52 PM >

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RE: Einstein and G*d - 5/12/2008 4:50:25 PM

christine1

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how come GOD can't be typed as it is spelled? why does it have to be G*d? i have the same questions for people who type f*ck instead of fuck....i don't get it.

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RE: Einstein and G*d - 5/12/2008 4:58:08 PM

Rule

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So what? His hypothesis of general relativity sucks.

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RE: Einstein and G*d - 5/12/2008 5:24:03 PM

Termyn8or

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Some Jews and certain other religions harbor this abhorrence to typing or writing the word God. Right now I do not care why, I know what they meant so fuckit.

That is one particular subject that I would prefer not persue. Their beliefs, OK fine. Type how you want.

And as far as the OP, I would have to agree with Albert.

T

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RE: Einstein and G*d - 5/12/2008 5:57:30 PM

christine1

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termy, don't you mean f*ckit?

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He's the "boom" overwhelming...

He is my Master, my lover, my best friend my everything.

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RE: Einstein and G*d - 5/12/2008 5:57:51 PM

cpK69

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The quote only speaks of his feelings towards the term “god”, and the interpretation of the original scripture referred to as the Bible; not his actually beliefs.

Hopefully the letter is easier to understand then the quote provided in the OP.

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RE: Einstein and G*d - 5/12/2008 7:19:16 PM

bipolarber

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So this one letter he wrote somehow negates "The World as I see It" his book of philosophical musings that showed his deep love of God refleced in the mysteries of the universe? Typical. The guy writes an entire book on how religion and science is in the same business (the search for truth) but approach it in different ways. And some schmuck digs up one quote that seems to contradict this, and blasts it out like a fucking YouTube video?

And the sheep don't bother to read any of the book. All they know is the one quote, and judge everything else according to that.

Yeah, General Relativity sucks alright... so do the laws of gravitation as defined by Newton. Too bad they're both so fucking correct, huh?

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RE: Einstein and G*d - 5/12/2008 8:11:49 PM

ResidentSadist

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks
So I suppose god doesn't play dice with the universe. Chiefly because you need to exist in order to play dice.

Cute... that'll give chaos theory a quantum slant.

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RE: Einstein and G*d - 5/12/2008 10:56:40 PM

meatcleaver

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You don't have to be Einstein to realize religion is childish. A truth based on superstition and myth is never going to stand up to a modicum of scrutiny and no religion does. The very idea that there is a benigh omniscient, omnipotent god (an irreconcilable paradox) that intervenes in the world to help a couple of people is laughable, especially when this same god then inflicts devastating disasters on huge numbers of people such as the typhoon in Burma and then the huge earthquake in China. Or maybe these people deserved it because they don't believe in god or the right god and deserve this loving god's wrath? Or maybe these poor people need to be taught a lesson for the good of their soul? Or maybe god is just a sadistic wratful psychopathic god? Who needs enemies when you have a narcisstic, vane wrathful god that demands to be adored and feared like a gangster godfather or he will inflict a punishment on you. The idea of god doesn't stand up to a few idle thoughts unless he lit the blue touch paper and stood well back and watched, which makes believing in god pretty irrelevent anyway.

Back to Einstein, when you read his musings, it seems quite obvious to me he often uses the term 'god' as a metaphor for the universe, its creation and its laws and doesn't apply any religioous significance to the term.

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RE: Einstein and G*d - 5/13/2008 1:16:56 AM

RealityLicks

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The world as I see it is very far from being an exposition of Einstein's "deep love of God". It's important to draw a distinction between a religious feeling - a drive to explore the mysteries of our existence which takes on the sense of duty - and religion itself. This collection of essays, talks and funeral addresses makes it pretty clear that while Einstein does not hold to any religion, he still values all religions hugely but mostly for the impetus they give to acts of social justice and psychological uplift to those who suffer. In other words, he is a non-proselytising atheist, a humanist tradition distinct from that which seeks simply to annihilate religious belief altogether. Are you listening Richard Dawkins?

He talks a lot about the child-like desires that create a need for god, the god of fear favoured by primitive societies and another strand of belief, an attempt to understand god as an unknowable cosmic entity. But at no point does he come close to saying that he shares these beliefs - he is merely displaying his personal understanding of their motivations. This letter however, makes it quite categorical, since writing to a friend frees him from the burden of appearing to attack any groups' beliefs, that although religion is important to humanity and that many geniuses have influenced us through it, that ultimately the beliefs themselves are fables, used to certain ends.

As for writing "god" as "G*d", well an asterisk does look a bit like a star and it struck me as funny to do that. I'll get my coat.

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RE: Einstein and G*d - 5/13/2008 1:49:46 AM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

This collection of essays, talks and funeral addresses makes it pretty clear that while Einstein does not hold to any religion, he still values all religions hugely but mostly for the impetus they give to acts of social justice and psychological uplift to those who suffer. In other words, he is a non-proselytising atheist, a humanist tradition distinct from that which seeks simply to annihilate religious belief altogether. Are you listening Richard Dawkins?

If Einstein really believed this he is not as intelligent as we give him credit for. Religion doesn't add any impetus to acts of social justice, if they did, you would expect no impetus for social justice from people who don't believe in god. In fact, just browse these threads and you will find that many of those people that believe in god also believe in state execution, war, selfish individualism and many other things that are an antithesis to their espoused religion.

Dawkins on the other hand, worries about the irrationality of religion and its historic fight against knowledge, which is still going on today.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 5/13/2008 1:50:32 AM >

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RE: Einstein and G*d - 5/13/2008 1:57:40 AM

LadyEllen

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I guess the real problem for religion (that is Christianity as the background religion in our culture) is that over time it became a single thing for all people, and by that mechanism inevitably became unfit for many, driving them to seek other means of understanding the world; other means which happily included the revival of ancient philosophies preserved from destruction by Islam, which became over time the science we enjoy today.

This will seem a stupid assertion to many, but it is apparent that religious texts do not comprise a single reading but rather at least three levels of understanding; a basic face value reading for the majority and a deeper reading for the initiated will be perhaps familar ideas to us with our interpretations of such texts - but there is a third layer for those able to read it which contains all manner of secret knowledge. That the second and third readings have been lost, (the ability to read them eradicated), leaving us with only the face value reading, renders such texts obviously and absurdly untrue to anyone of even a passing education.

And left with only the basic face-value reading, those who in former times would have been selected for initiation into the deeper readings - and would thereby have occupied their time and abilities, became those who looked elsewhere for their deeper understandings.

One might think of it as poetic justice on the Church, that the will to think which they eradicated in former times eventually grew back and became the instrument of its undoing.

E

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RE: Einstein and G*d - 5/13/2008 3:05:04 AM

Rule

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks
This letter however, makes it quite categorical, ... , that although religion is important to humanity and that many geniuses have influenced us through it, that ultimately the beliefs themselves are fables, used to certain ends.

Merely shows that Albert was an ignoramus.

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RE: Einstein and G*d - 5/13/2008 4:12:23 AM

kittinSol

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Yeah, because Rule is so full of knowledge and wisdom

,

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RE: Einstein and G*d - 5/13/2008 4:29:58 AM

Rule

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I will add that extraordinary people are specialists. For example there is no use in talking about supernova physics to a lunar geologist. It simply isn't what he does. He will not understand it.

It is well known that chess masters, though excelling at chess, in no other way may have any remarkable intellectual abilities.

Albert having some mathematical abilities does not make him a master sword forger, nor a philosopher nor any kind of genius other than in his own area of expertise. It is not realistic to expect him to be able to provide any other cookies than Albert Einstein physics cookies - and at least one of those cookies has a funny taste.

< Message edited by Rule -- 5/13/2008 4:31:34 AM >

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RE: Einstein and G*d - 5/13/2008 5:08:38 AM

hands0n0knees

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Einstein's god was D.H. Lawrence's god. It's the sight of the rainbow arching up over the valley, not the Ten Commandments. It's the reverence of the greatness outside of oneself, not the effective solipsism of Christianity.

Personally, I enjoy the fantasies of The Rainbow on the weekend and like it thoroughly un-weaved on the weekdays.

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RE: Einstein and G*d - 5/13/2008 5:08:43 AM

batshalom

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

I will add that extraordinary people are specialists. For example there is no use in talking about supernova physics to a lunar geologist. It simply isn't what he does. He will not understand it.

It is well known that chess masters, though excelling at chess, in no other way may have any remarkable intellectual abilities.

Albert having some mathematical abilities does not make him a master sword forger, nor a philosopher nor any kind of genius other than in his own area of expertise.

I'm gonna go with Rule on this one, at least.

Einstein was good at what he did, but that doesn't make him an authority on anything else, philosophy and religion included.

I don't particularly have faith in supernatural beings, but the point is that Einstein isn't / wasn't in any better position than the rest of us mortal-types to give a finite answer to such a question.

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RE: Einstein and G*d - 5/13/2008 5:20:53 AM

RealityLicks

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quote:

ORIGINAL: batshalom

Einstein was good at what he did, but that doesn't make him an authority on anything else, philosophy and religion included.

I don't particularly have faith in supernatural beings, but the point is that Einstein isn't / wasn't in any better position than the rest of us mortal-types to give a finite answer to such a question.

And I think it's to his credit that he addresses that perception of him frequently in his writings. Nevertheless, people do still seem to value his opinions and that gives them a de facto worth.

What's more, ultimately we are either convinced or unconvinced by a philosophical or religious proposition and I think he suggests that this conviction is itself akin to an act of faith.

I think he was always mindful of the fact that there is always another mystery after this one, then another and that we can only solve each with the benefit of others' work and that it is in human nature to be drawn to examine these mysteries.

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RE: Einstein and G*d - 5/13/2008 5:23:35 AM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: batshalom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

I will add that extraordinary people are specialists. For example there is no use in talking about supernova physics to a lunar geologist. It simply isn't what he does. He will not understand it.

It is well known that chess masters, though excelling at chess, in no other way may have any remarkable intellectual abilities.

Albert having some mathematical abilities does not make him a master sword forger, nor a philosopher nor any kind of genius other than in his own area of expertise.

I'm gonna go with Rule on this one, at least.

Einstein was good at what he did, but that doesn't make him an authority on anything else, philosophy and religion included.

Anyone can be a specialist on philosophy and religion because you can just take the first thing that comes into your head and state it as fact without any knowledge whatsoever and if you have the gift of the gab and a little charisma, half the world will believe you.

Ask Rule, he has written a book on just about everything while refuting the great minds of western civilisation. I'm assuming he must be at least 210 with the studies he must have done.

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RE: Einstein and G*d - 5/13/2008 5:28:05 AM

batshalom

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

Nevertheless, people do still seem to value his opinions and that gives them a de facto worth.

It is a good point; however, de facto worth is pretty meaningless in terms of reality. Such de facto worth, in fact, keeps people from inspecting things too closely for themselves, which is very troubling to me. Then again, most of us have heard about Milgram's study on obedience to authority, so I suppose it's not overly surprising.

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