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Am I wrong? - 5/12/2008 7:01:50 PM   
Moonchild66


Posts: 15
Joined: 1/24/2008
Status: offline 		Something happened today between the Dom I was under a training collar with, online only, and I need to get other Dom's opinions on if I was wrong as a sub to take the stance I did.

A quick summary: he and I have not met in person, but have spent a great deal of time talking and had gotten to know each other enough to feel comfortable with beginning the training process to the extent we could online, both being aware of the limitations. While we had discussed Him sharing me in real life if I accepted His collar, we had both agreed that we would not be with another sexually until we were able to meet in person.

Today he openly admitted to having participated in  sexual activity (no intercourse) this weekend.  In my mind, that was a betrayal of my trust and the agreement that we had between us. Normally, I would have walked away right then, but was willing to try to work past it, based on the strength of everything else we had built thus far. He felt that, as a sub, I should "get over it" and wasn't willing to admit he had done anything wrong. I refused to just "get over it", so he released me, but has given me tonight to think about it. I feel that if he can do such a thing without consideration of my feelings, what else is he capable of? If a sub cannot trust her Dom to always care for her on the most basic levels such as trust, then she cannot trust Him in the more important ways. He feels that as a Dom, admitting any wrong-doing to me, a sub, would be beneath Him. I need insight, please.

< Message edited by Moonchild66 -- 5/12/2008 7:09:10 PM >
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RE: Am I wrong? - 5/12/2008 7:12:53 PM   
antipode


Posts: 1787
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline 		Ah, "online". I hate wasting my time on lost causes.

(in reply to Moonchild66)
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RE: Am I wrong? - 5/12/2008 7:23:22 PM   
Quivver


Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline 		I tend to share Antipods thoughts of online .. ask yourself why you are offering up loyality from simple words when they have already been broken.  

_____________________________

The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw

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RE: Am I wrong? - 5/12/2008 7:23:26 PM   
Moonchild66


Posts: 15
Joined: 1/24/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: antipode

Ah, "online". I hate wasting my time on lost causes.
i mean no disrespect, antipode, but everything has to start somewhere. i'm not asking for a critique of my choice to start online...something i would not have done without strong reason to expect it to develop into real life...i'm asking for input from understanding Doms. Not seeking judgment from those who do not understand or approve of the situation.

< Message edited by Moonchild66 -- 5/12/2008 7:24:17 PM >

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RE: Am I wrong? - 5/12/2008 7:27:02 PM   
Moonchild66


Posts: 15
Joined: 1/24/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Quivver

I tend to share Antipods thoughts of online .. ask yourself why you are offering up loyality from simple words when they have already been broken.  
As one who has seen numerous strong relationships develop online, i have had no reason to expect this one would not lead to such. I can understand the scepticism...starting out online isn't for everyone and many get it wrong. Perhaps I should rephrase and simplify my question, leaving out the other details: is it out of line for a sub to expect a Dom to be willing to admit when he is wrong?

(in reply to Quivver)
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RE: Am I wrong? - 5/12/2008 7:31:10 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonchild66
is it out of line for a sub to expect a Dom to be willing to admit when he is wrong?

No.

But, uh, is it out of line for people to think that a decision to be monogamous without ever having met each other is a little fragile?


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to Moonchild66)
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RE: Am I wrong? - 5/12/2008 7:31:55 PM   
MissMagnolia


Posts: 3636
Status: offline 		Moonchild, I am NOT ridiculing you or the situation.

He's a guy. Most guys don't form emotional bonds as quickly as women do, especially when sex is involved. And yes guys, I know some of you do, so don't bother carrying on. I said MOST, not all. If someone turned up and was handing him something on a plate, it's unusual for a guy not to take it. Especially a guy who hasn't met you and formed an actual attachment to you.

The best you can do is either accept his behaviour, or bow out gracefully.

_____________________________

if at first you dont succeed..then skydiving isnt for you

Resident Whip Cracker AND Resident Orbs Of Joy.


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RE: Am I wrong? - 5/12/2008 7:37:30 PM   
Moonchild66


Posts: 15
Joined: 1/24/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonchild66
is it out of line for a sub to expect a Dom to be willing to admit when he is wrong?

No.

But, uh, is it out of line for people to think that a decision to be monogamous without ever having met each other is a little fragile?

Fragile, yes. Doable? Yes, if both are committed to it, and we had plans to meet very soon, so it wasn't a never-ending agreement. I won't get into our reasons for it, although they're likely obvious with some thought. My objection, however, was not with the fact that he broke the agreement, but with his attitude that I should just "get over it" and that it shouldn't matter how I feel because I'm "just a sub" and should accept whatever he wanted. 

< Message edited by Moonchild66 -- 5/12/2008 7:39:31 PM >

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RE: Am I wrong? - 5/12/2008 7:39:00 PM   
Moonchild66


Posts: 15
Joined: 1/24/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMagnolia

Moonchild, I am NOT ridiculing you or the situation.

He's a guy. Most guys don't form emotional bonds as quickly as women do, especially when sex is involved. And yes guys, I know some of you do, so don't bother carrying on. I said MOST, not all. If someone turned up and was handing him something on a plate, it's unusual for a guy not to take it. Especially a guy who hasn't met you and formed an actual attachment to you.

The best you can do is either accept his behaviour, or bow out gracefully.
Thank you very much, MissMagnolia. I appreciate your response.

(in reply to MissMagnolia)
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RE: Am I wrong? - 5/12/2008 7:40:11 PM   
Wantstocontrolu


Posts: 127
Joined: 4/11/2008
Status: offline 		Welcome to the world of fantasy....  or is that named "on-line"

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wantstocontrolu

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RE: Am I wrong? - 5/12/2008 7:45:04 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		Something's goofy here, Moonchild.  You say you've seen "a lot" of online relationships turn out "well."  You also are posting the question, "Is it out of line for me to expect a man I have never met to admit he is wrong?"  That is the question of someone who has never been in a relationship of any kind before, and you are 41 years old.

No one is perfect.  Imperfect people make mistakes.  People secure in themselves admit their mistakes.  People secure in their relationships point out mistakes in a constructive way.  Is this really all new to you?


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to Moonchild66)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Am I wrong? - 5/12/2008 7:47:49 PM   
Moonchild66


Posts: 15
Joined: 1/24/2008
Status: offline 		Wow, I had no idea so many were so sceptical of starting relationships online. Not what I expected here, on an online message board. As one who has, as I said, seen many strong relationships begin and continue on to strong, fufilling ones, and one who has formed many friendships that turned into real life relationships, I'm not a rookie when it comes to such things, and didn't expect this sort of response.

I hope people can look past that part and address the actual issue I have asked about. 

(in reply to Wantstocontrolu)
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RE: Am I wrong? - 5/12/2008 7:52:27 PM   
Moonchild66


Posts: 15
Joined: 1/24/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

Something's goofy here, Moonchild.  You say you've seen "a lot" of online relationships turn out "well."  You also are posting the question, "Is it out of line for me to expect a man I have never met to admit he is wrong?"  That is the question of someone who has never been in a relationship of any kind before, and you are 41 years old.

No one is perfect.  Imperfect people make mistakes.  People secure in themselves admit their mistakes.  People secure in their relationships point out mistakes in a constructive way.  Is this really all new to you?

Not new to me, no. But I had struggled with it enough to want to seek advice from others, though, who are familiar with such relationships, which is why I was here seeking input from Doms...isn't that the purpose of this forum? To ask advice from those who have experience? It didn't seem out of line for me to expect him to be willing to admit he was wrong, if the relationship was important to him.

(in reply to RedMagic1)
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RE: Am I wrong? - 5/12/2008 7:53:20 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonchild66

Today he openly admitted to having participated in  sexual activity (no intercourse) this weekend.  In my mind, that was a betrayal of my trust and the agreement that we had between us. Normally, I would have walked away right then, but was willing to try to work past it, based on the strength of everything else we had built thus far. He felt that, as a sub, I should "get over it" and wasn't willing to admit he had done anything wrong. I refused to just "get over it", so he released me, but has given me tonight to think about it. I feel that if he can do such a thing without consideration of my feelings, what else is he capable of? If a sub cannot trust her Dom to always care for her on the most basic levels such as trust, then she cannot trust Him in the more important ways. He feels that as a Dom, admitting any wrong-doing to me, a sub, would be beneath Him. I need insight, please.


The thing that popped out at me was when you wrote .. "in my mind" which speaks to your thoughts, but do you really know what was in 'his' mind? You two need to communicate what the agreement between you actually was as he may have thought it meant something different from what you thought it meant. You could be actually both be 'right' simply because you weren't really on the same page at the beginning. As for the FDA (fucking dom attitude) .. yeah, some doms are funny that way. It either works for you or it doesn't. It doesn't make him bad, but perhaps it makes him incompatible with you. Talk to him. You said things are strong in a lot of other areas, so, maybe this is one which just got a bit skewed and is fixable.

Good luck.


Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: Am I wrong? - 5/12/2008 7:57:54 PM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline 		The actual issue as you stated... no, it is not wrong to expect ANYONE, of any flavor, to admit when they are wrong.

But that's like saying it's important to inventory the deck chairs on the Titanic.  If there was anything LESS important in this scenario, I don't know what it would be. 

He has now told you that your feelings and opinions are not important to him, because you are "just a sub."  THAT is the issue you should be concerned about, not whether or not he is willing to admit he was wrong.  He allowed you to believe (which is generous wording, because it sounds like he lied to you) that you had input into the sexual agreement.  He has now told you that he doesn't care what you think about it, and THAT is what you can expect if you continue the relationship.

Cali




_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

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RE: Am I wrong? - 5/12/2008 8:13:13 PM   
SoulPiercer


Posts: 374
Joined: 5/27/2007
Status: offline 		To answer the question .. which was answered by someone else .. No it's not "out of line" for you to expect him to admit he was wrong. Is it realistic? Also an emphatic no.

What exactly was he wrong about? Participating in sexual (non intercourse) activity with someone other than you?

I'm only 43 .. and I still remember that ancient ritual called dating. Where people interacted with multiple prospective mates before finally deciding on Mr. or Ms. Right. Anyone who believes that in all those years, none of these people had sexual (non intercourse) activity with any of the people they dated is being naive.

I have nothing against relationships that begin by people who meet online. What bothers me is when people begin to behave like Jerry Springer "guests" because they discover that the person they had a few nice conversations with is also talking to someone else.

I met my princess on line .. on a vanilla dating site in fact. However, we didn't form any type of commitment until we had met face to face.

Maybe this is a topic for another day, but why is it that people form this sense of ownership/commitment so early on when they have not yet looked into the other person's eyes?



_____________________________

Do you have any idea how many bones you have left for me to break? - Batman

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RE: Am I wrong? - 5/12/2008 8:22:04 PM   
Moonchild66


Posts: 15
Joined: 1/24/2008
Status: offline 		I realize I set myself up for criticism and scrutiny when I put this situation out here, so I can take it. I realize that not everyone is going to understand or agree with my choices, and I'm not going to pretend that all of them are the wisest...but as all of us, I do the best I can and learn from my mistakes.

A big thank you to everyone who has responded. You have given me lots to think about.

(in reply to SoulPiercer)
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RE: Am I wrong? - 5/12/2008 8:30:11 PM   
s0ngbird


Posts: 79
Joined: 4/13/2008
Status: offline 		I am sorry that he has hurt you, Moon.  I would have to say that the fact that he initiated giving you a collar, without meeting you, and then revoked it, as punishment to you...that alone is enough to show that he is one to run from, and as fast as your feet can go.  Remarkable that he found you blameful in this situation, don't you think?

The Dominants I know of would not take your collar away...for the night for you to think about things...and then give it back.   A husband would not take a wedding band from his wife until she had time to determine her wrongdoings.

Yes, he should tell you when he does something wrong.  He should apologize if he hurts you.  We are all human, and we err.

_____________________________

"Some guys like to sweet talk, and others, they like to tease...
Tie my hands behind my back and, ooo, I'm in ecstasy"

"We are not called to do great things, but to do small things with great love" MT

(in reply to Moonchild66)
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RE: Am I wrong? - 5/12/2008 8:31:17 PM   
laura2161


Posts: 254
Joined: 3/8/2008
From: Duluth, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonchild66

Something happened today between the Dom I was under a training collar with, online only, and I need to get other Dom's opinions on if I was wrong as a sub to take the stance I did.

A quick summary: he and I have not met in person, but have spent a great deal of time talking and had gotten to know each other enough to feel comfortable with beginning the training process to the extent we could online, both being aware of the limitations. While we had discussed Him sharing me in real life if I accepted His collar, we had both agreed that we would not be with another sexually until we were able to meet in person.

Today he openly admitted to having participated in  sexual activity (no intercourse) this weekend.  In my mind, that was a betrayal of my trust and the agreement that we had between us. Normally, I would have walked away right then, but was willing to try to work past it, based on the strength of everything else we had built thus far. He felt that, as a sub, I should "get over it" and wasn't willing to admit he had done anything wrong. I refused to just "get over it", so he released me, but has given me tonight to think about it. I feel that if he can do such a thing without consideration of my feelings, what else is he capable of? If a sub cannot trust her Dom to always care for her on the most basic levels such as trust, then she cannot trust Him in the more important ways. He feels that as a Dom, admitting any wrong-doing to me, a sub, would be beneath Him. I need insight, please.


You havent even met him yet and he is already showing you that your feelings do not matter. Saying 'just get over it' and when you wouldnt/couldnt he proceeded to 'release you' is a much bigger problem then if he will 'ever' admit to making a mistake.

I have no problem with a relationship starting online as long as it moves to real-time fairly quickly. I dont however, subscribe to the notion of already being committed before meeting or training collars or any of that other jazz. (for me, you may feel differently)

The real question is, do you wish to be with someone who has little regard to how you feel even in the very early stages of trying to form a relationship? If the answer is no, then you already know what you should do. If the answer is yes, then the best of luck to you.


_____________________________

'I am not infantile, You StinkyButt Poophead!'

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RE: Am I wrong? - 5/12/2008 8:33:22 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonchild66

Wow, I had no idea so many were so sceptical of starting relationships online. Not what I expected here, on an online message board. 


I do understand your distress at the negativity you've received on this point, however, I'd say that the key idea you aren't getting with these responses is that while most here accept that you can meet someone online with whom you can develop a successful relationship, few will agree that it is wise to commit to that relationship before you've had a chance to meet and spend time with each other in person.

Even fewer accept the idea that you can form any type of functioning online D/s relationship without ever having met in person... especially one that involves "training" or the so-called "training collar".

As for your original post...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonchild66

While we had discussed Him sharing me in real life if I accepted His collar, we had both agreed that we would not be with another sexually until we were able to meet in person.


Okay, you say that you discussed him sharing you... but did you have in your mind that you would also be sharing him?  Did you expect that if and when you became sexually involved with others that it would be under circumstances that you were aware of and consented to beforehand?  Was this dominant specific with you in that he expected to be free to have sexual activity with whomever he wished, whenever he wished, without your knowledge or consent?  When you discussed not being with another sexually until you met, did you clarify with each other what was specifically meant by that... defining exactly what sexual contact was being abstained from?

My point in asking these questions is to get you to think about exactly how well you communicated your wants and desires.  You say that his actions were, to you, a betrayal of your trust and the agreement you had between you, but just how careful were you in building that trust and in coming to that agreement?  It doesn't sound as if he agrees with you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonchild66

He felt that, as a sub, I should "get over it" and wasn't willing to admit he had done anything wrong.

... He feels that as a Dom, admitting any wrong-doing to me, a sub, would be beneath Him.


While I would not accept this reasoning, I would have made this clear before I ever entered into a power-exchange relationship.  Did you?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonchild66

I refused to just "get over it", so he released me, but has given me tonight to think about it.


Hmm... this, all by itself, is reason enough for me to walk away, provided that I somehow lost my senses and became involved with this dominant in the first place.   Who needs a dominant that is wishy-washy?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonchild66

... i'm asking for input from understanding Doms.


Understand yourself and what you want, first.  Then, find someone who makes sense to you. 

When that happens, you don't need to struggle to understand them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonchild66

... is it out of line for a sub to expect a Dom to be willing to admit when he is wrong?


Who cares what anyone else thinks is out of line for a sub?  Question is, do you think it's out of line to expect anyone to admit to you when they are wrong?  If not, then find a partner who agrees with you.

(in reply to Moonchild66)
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