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RE: Obama is so on target with what's wrong with this c... - 5/17/2008 1:45:25 PM

awmslave

Posts: 599
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As I see it the only candidate who really addressed the very serious situation US is right now was Ron Paul. US has over-extended its limits and it will face financial collapse if some serious steps will not be taken to avoid the inevitable. The problem is broken government that can not establish any long term strategy. Will Obama fix it? I do not think so. Although, Obama would be the best choice because he is the only one who would potentially try while Clinton and McCain would conceal and the problem and they would try to create another pseudo-solution like Bush/Greenspan bubble spending/borrowing.

(in reply to chickpea)

Post #: 21

RE: Obama is so on target with what's wrong with this c... - 5/17/2008 2:11:29 PM

OrionTheWolf

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Joined: 10/11/2006
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Is Carter a former President? So he can be seen as a very influential figure in our country. Is Carter trying to calm the situation? I believe so. Is Carter trying to aquire peace by concessions? I believe so as well. I do believe that Carter fits what I have read on appeasement.

Now do I believe he should? Why not? If someone can bring peace, let them.

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 22

RE: Obama is so on target with what's wrong with this c... - 5/17/2008 4:37:33 PM

chickpea

Posts: 446
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: Los Angeles Area
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: awmslave

As I see it the only candidate who really addressed the very serious situation US is right now was Ron Paul. US has over-extended its limits and it will face financial collapse if some serious steps will not be taken to avoid the inevitable. The problem is broken government that can not establish any long term strategy. Will Obama fix it? I do not think so. Although, Obama would be the best choice because he is the only one who would potentially try while Clinton and McCain would conceal and the problem and they would try to create another pseudo-solution like Bush/Greenspan bubble spending/borrowing.

Yea, I think Obama being an outsider, will have a better perspective to attack the mess (plus he's smart, not that that's much of a compliment actually being smarter than bush). If you're in the middle of the mess (or caused it...cough *bush cough *bush), then that dust bunny you just swept off the floor will come flying back at your face.

(in reply to awmslave)

Post #: 23

RE: Obama is so on target with what's wrong with this c... - 5/17/2008 4:39:54 PM

chickpea

Posts: 446
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: Los Angeles Area
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

I guess you haven't heard about Jimmah's latest trip?

It made all the headlines...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1wSZBTAXRs

Yeah sure,keep tell`n yourself that.

And McCain's parallel comments and those of his surrogates,they were all speaking about Carter also?lol

Give us a break.

If Bush was talking about Carter, then he's definitely smoking something out there in the White House.

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 24

RE: Obama is so on target with what's wrong with this c... - 5/17/2008 5:14:01 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Is Carter a former President? So he can be seen as a very influential figure in our country. Is Carter trying to calm the situation? I believe so. Is Carter trying to aquire peace by concessions? I believe so as well. I do believe that Carter fits what I have read on appeasement.

Now do I believe he should? Why not? If someone can bring peace, let them.

Once again how can a private citizen be an appeaser? Don't dance around, tell me exactly how a private citizen can enter into a binding treaty on behalf of a nation to give away half of another nation? What military force can he agree not to send into the field? Which treaties can he order a government to ignore?

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)

Post #: 25

RE: Obama is so on target with what's wrong with this c... - 5/17/2008 5:22:52 PM

celticlord2112

Posts: 5732
Status: offline

Obama is so on target with what's wrong with Democrats. They talk....and talk....and talk....and talk....and talk....

Doing just never shows up on their radar.

Talk is cheap. Leadership is in the doing, a concept that is as alien to Obama as respecting civil rights is to Bush.

Obama will not do good service for this country until he quits flapping his jaw and goes home to Chicago for good.

_____________________________

(in reply to chickpea)

Post #: 26

RE: Obama is so on target with what's wrong with this c... - 5/17/2008 6:31:03 PM

cloudboy

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Joined: 12/14/2005
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What Obama said goes right to the heart of his campaign for the Presidency --- which is to install leadership which is not divisive and dishonest in how it conducts policy.

(in reply to chickpea)

Post #: 27

RE: Obama is so on target with what's wrong with this c... - 5/17/2008 7:17:14 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

What Obama said goes right to the heart of his campaign for the Presidency --- which is to install leadership which is not divisive and dishonest in how it conducts policy.

Right. And George W. Bush was going to be "a uniter, not a divider."

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to cloudboy)

Post #: 28

RE: Obama is so on target with what's wrong with this c... - 5/17/2008 10:10:45 PM

subrob1967

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Joined: 9/13/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: chickpea
Yea, I think Obama being an outsider, will have a better perspective to attack the mess (plus he's smart, not that that's much of a compliment actually being smarter than bush). If you're in the middle of the mess (or caused it...cough *bush cough *bush), then that dust bunny you just swept off the floor will come flying back at your face.

Obama, outsider? LMFAO... He's from CHICAGO, he's no outsider, he's a puppet with charisma.

He's an empty suit, full of empty promises, none of which, the current congress will let him fulfill.

Barack Hussein Obama is all shadow, no substance, and his political masters are pulling some mighty big strings to get him elected.

< Message edited by subrob1967 -- 5/17/2008 10:12:12 PM >

(in reply to chickpea)

Post #: 29

RE: Obama is so on target with what's wrong with this c... - 5/17/2008 11:07:45 PM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Just defend the scurrilous comments by Bush and stop the hi-jack.

It`s not about you.

        And you get to assign the thoughts and opinions of other posters because..... ???

       I happen to think "appeasement" is a very good word for what some on the left seek in the ME. I happen to think that requiring Hamas/whoever to acknowledge Israel's right to exist is a fair demand BEFORE we sit down. Peace was on the table not so long ago, and the Palestinians walked away.

      I have zero intention of watching a Bush speech on my day off.

"And you get to assign the thoughts and opinions of other posters because..... ???"

No more that we`re going to assign the thoughts and opinions of the Arabs in the ME.

We spoke to the Soviets,we speak to the Chinese and many many other brutal dictators around the world.We now know that a McCain staffer is/was the main lobbyist for Burma/Myanmar.

We spoke with that brutal dictatorship.....

So we now have to give pre-conditions to "speak" with Hamas?Do they have special cooties, that require especially harsh treatment?

If your purpose was to stifle progress in the ME,on the one hand you`d build permanent housing on disputed Arab land.And on the other hand,tell the Arab people what to think and feel before they even get the chance to speak with us.

If that`s not a recipe for failure and prolonged strife,I don`t know what is.

One couldn`t design a better plan for deliberate continuation, than that.

We now know that Bush ME policy doesn`t work.The iron hand has only made things worse,everywhere in the ME.

Iraq is FUBR,Iran controls the hood,the other Arab leaders are either pissed at us or made weaker from associating with us/Bush.

Oil`s through the roof and getting more expensive(threatening our economy)and Arab/Israeli relations have steadily gotten worse.

Certainly,going around shooting people hasn`t worked out for us very well.

We`ve lost power and prestige and don`t have the sway we once had to influence the ME, all because of a cowboy from Texas.Actually, an ivy leaguer from Connecticut,but who`s counting, right?

Nope,McCain/Bush policy hasn`t worked out.In fact,it`s made things worse.

It`s time for a new approach and fresh ideas from men willing to take chance for peace.

I think the right is afraid Obama will be successful.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 5/17/2008 11:13:14 PM >

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 30

RE: Obama is so on target with what's wrong with this c... - 5/17/2008 11:35:20 PM

Alumbrado

Posts: 5560
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

...he's no outsider, he's a puppet with charisma.

He's an empty suit, full of empty promises, none of which, the current congress will let him fulfill.

Barack Hussein Obama is all shadow, no substance, and his political masters are pulling some mighty big strings to get him elected.

There are only 3 people in the entire universe with a chance in hell of becoming the next US President, and they all fit the above descriptions.

(in reply to subrob1967)

Post #: 31

RE: Obama is so on target with what's wrong with this c... - 5/17/2008 11:42:16 PM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

quote:

ORIGINAL: chickpea
Yea, I think Obama being an outsider, will have a better perspective to attack the mess (plus he's smart, not that that's much of a compliment actually being smarter than bush). If you're in the middle of the mess (or caused it...cough *bush cough *bush), then that dust bunny you just swept off the floor will come flying back at your face.

Obama, outsider? LMFAO... He's from CHICAGO, he's no outsider, he's a puppet with charisma.

He's an empty suit, full of empty promises, none of which, the current congress will let him fulfill.

Barack Hussein Obama is all shadow, no substance, and his political masters are pulling some mighty big strings to get him elected.

You don`t like McCain.Or Hillary or Barack.

Is there any current politician you do like?

Who is worthy,... of subrob`s endorsement?

And if they`re all so bad and you despise them all,why do you even comment?

(in reply to subrob1967)

Post #: 32

RE: Obama is so on target with what's wrong with this c... - 5/18/2008 5:18:00 AM

OrionTheWolf

Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline

He would offer political power, as that is all he has. You like to just argue, dontcha? he would actually be the negotiator and nothing more, but he is offer appeasement. As far as dancing goes, you are not really my type so I don't dance.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Is Carter a former President? So he can be seen as a very influential figure in our country. Is Carter trying to calm the situation? I believe so. Is Carter trying to aquire peace by concessions? I believe so as well. I do believe that Carter fits what I have read on appeasement.

Now do I believe he should? Why not? If someone can bring peace, let them.

Once again how can a private citizen be an appeaser? Don't dance around, tell me exactly how a private citizen can enter into a binding treaty on behalf of a nation to give away half of another nation? What military force can he agree not to send into the field? Which treaties can he order a government to ignore?

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 33

RE: Obama is so on target with what's wrong with this c... - 5/18/2008 5:20:08 AM

OrionTheWolf

Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline

Even our best Presidents have had to be less than honest with the common man. It is a different level of knowledge to run a huge country like the US. Not to mention they are all politicians, and they need spin to keep their jobs.

"The new boss is the same as the old boss."

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

What Obama said goes right to the heart of his campaign for the Presidency --- which is to install leadership which is not divisive and dishonest in how it conducts policy.

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to cloudboy)

Post #: 34

RE: Obama is so on target with what's wrong with this c... - 5/18/2008 7:47:08 AM

cloudboy

Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

Right. And George W. Bush was going to be "a uniter, not a divider."

The two aren't really comparable. Bush's campaign revealed his true nature v. McCain 2000. There is no such red flag about Obama.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 35

RE: Obama is so on target with what's wrong with this c... - 5/18/2008 7:54:30 AM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

Quite the shotgun reply there, O59. Interesting way to dodge the question of why you feel you have the right to tell other posters what position they must take, and what values they must defend.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 36

RE: Obama is so on target with what's wrong with this c... - 5/18/2008 8:01:30 AM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

He would offer political power, as that is all he has. You like to just argue, dontcha? he would actually be the negotiator and nothing more, but he is offer appeasement. As far as dancing goes, you are not really my type so I don't dance.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Is Carter a former President? So he can be seen as a very influential figure in our country. Is Carter trying to calm the situation? I believe so. Is Carter trying to aquire peace by concessions? I believe so as well. I do believe that Carter fits what I have read on appeasement.

Now do I believe he should? Why not? If someone can bring peace, let them.

Once again how can a private citizen be an appeaser? Don't dance around, tell me exactly how a private citizen can enter into a binding treaty on behalf of a nation to give away half of another nation? What military force can he agree not to send into the field? Which treaties can he order a government to ignore?

?
So like so many you have no idea what appeasement means in regards to Chamberlain. Didn't it occur to you to look up what the historical facts were that you're trying to draw paralels to?

A private citizen cannot be an appeaser. He cannot promise that his nation won't interfere in the seizure of the Sudetenland or its modern equivalent.

Trying to make cheap political points using a buzz word like 'appeasement' is the equivalent of all that ignorant 'Democrat = communist' BS from 20 years ago. Bush was wrong and anyone who defends it is pathetic and should be ashamed.

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)

Post #: 37

RE: Obama is so on target with what's wrong with this c... - 5/18/2008 9:12:54 AM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

       If we limit use of the term 'appeasement' strictly to the definitions that would apply to Chamberlain, then you are quite correct, Ken. A purely private citizen couldn't do that.

       Carter may technically be a private citizen, but former Presidents remain lasting symbols of our gov't and country. They are easily dispatched as special representatives of our gov't. The first thing he did out of office was meet the returning hostages on behalf of the United States. Hell, we still pay for their Secret Service protection and, IIRC, their office/staff expenses. I don't have anybody hanging around on the taxpayer dollar to catch bullets for me and pay the internet bill, do you?

       Arafat walked away from the last good shot. Hamas will not acknowledge that Israel has a right to exist in peace. If a visit from Carter makes them think we might be ok with that, then I think trying to soothe tension by instilling false hope would qualify under a broader definition of appeasement.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 38

RE: Obama is so on target with what's wrong with this c... - 5/18/2008 10:23:44 AM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

      If we limit use of the term 'appeasement' strictly to the definitions that would apply to Chamberlain, then you are quite correct, Ken. A purely private citizen couldn't do that.

      Carter may technically be a private citizen, but former Presidents remain lasting symbols of our gov't and country. They are easily dispatched as special representatives of our gov't. The first thing he did out of office was meet the returning hostages on behalf of the United States. Hell, we still pay for their Secret Service protection and, IIRC, their office/staff expenses. I don't have anybody hanging around on the taxpayer dollar to catch bullets for me and pay the internet bill, do you?

      Arafat walked away from the last good shot. Hamas will not acknowledge that Israel has a right to exist in peace. If a visit from Carter makes them think we might be ok with that, then I think trying to soothe tension by instilling false hope would qualify under a broader definition of appeasement.

But GWB wasn't using a broader definition. He specifically refered to WWII and appeasement. So claiming this obvious attack on Obama was some sort of comment on Carter is obfuscation trying to make a it less awful that a sitting president gave a political speech while overseas. Can you imagine the furor that would have ensued if Clinton had slammed GWB in front of the Knesset in 2000?

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 39

RE: Obama is so on target with what's wrong with this c... - 5/18/2008 11:03:39 AM

pahunkboy

Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline

Prescott Bush made alot of money off the NAZIs, you could call it blood money.

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 40

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