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RE: A woman in the White House - 5/18/2008 6:11:58 AM

lronitulstahp

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

I don't like Clinton and it isn't because she is female it's because she is hollow and prepared to lie and when caught in a lie prepared to say she was confused and got it wrong. So the people of the US don't want someone that can lie or gets confused about important issues is all I can determine so far.

No point electing a female president just to break new ground, we did that with Thatcher. Women also voted and I think the funny thing is more women hate Clinton than men, so it was never going to work if she was supposed to be some pin-up for feminist power.

ermmm...we don't mind if our politicians lie...she just needs to get better at it. The whole sputtering and stammering after being caught in the lies is what offended the American public. What Hilly-boo needs is some kick ass advisors who are willing to take the blame when all else fails.....Ashcroft, Rumsfeld, now THOSE are the type of boys she's missing. Hell, even Bill could've coached her!!! " I did NOT have sex with that woman" He said it like it was the frickin' gospel truth....i WISH i could lie like that!!!!

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Post #: 21

RE: A woman in the White House - 5/18/2008 7:08:16 AM

Irishknight

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NOBODY can lie like Billy boy. If I had half his talent I'd have an oscar on my shelf.

As for Hillary, I don't like and nothing will change that. Even if she learns how to lie in a believable way, she still lacks anything that could make me like her. She was a cold human being when she was the shadow governor of Arkansas. She was possibly the coldest excuse for a first lady we've had in my lifetime. Suddenly she wants to show that she cares? Sorry. I am not buying that mess. Get a strong woman who had to fight her way up from poverty and who tells it like it is. I'll vote for THAT woman anyday.

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Post #: 22

RE: A woman in the White House - 5/18/2008 7:22:41 AM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
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Since when has it been a requirement for politicians to be warm and fluffy? Being a calculating bastard is a prerequisite, and Clinton is no exception. Many people accuse high-powered women of being 'cold' - it's such bullshit.

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Post #: 23

RE: A woman in the White House - 5/18/2008 7:47:09 AM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Many people accuse high-powered women of being 'cold' - it's such bullshit.

It's so unfair that our society still has gender-specific terminology. When will the day come when we can just call all the assholes, 'assholes?'

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Post #: 24

RE: A woman in the White House - 5/18/2008 7:48:35 AM

RealityLicks

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Joined: 10/23/2007
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While I believe sexism is a massive problem I'm not convinced this alone will put paid to her candidacy. Remember that Golda Meir, Indira Gandhi, Benazir Bhutto, Helen Clark, Margaret Thatcher and many others all made it to be head of state or gov't. in their countries - and if countries like China and Liberia can overcome prejudice against female politicians, it must be possible for the US. (And China has a very small, male electorate!)

I think more and more, political leaders have to be good communicators and Clinton simply isn't a patch on Obama in that department. She's just as capable and of course the policy differences will really actually be hammered out in Congress... but she's not a "people person" and that's what the voters dig.

Having said all of that and in complete contrast to what might best reflect the desires of Dem. voters, I believe that Hillary will lead a joint Clinton-Obama ticket because it is the only realistic way to swing the alienated gun-and-Bible brigade out of the clutches of the Rep.s wrinkled old retainer. They'll reason that flinging "isms" around won't work and that the majority will vote for the individual who most resembles the person facing them over the pizza tonight.

Also "The audacity of hope" is about the worst, most demeaning slogan a politician has ever fought under. Next time brother, offer to solve people's problems, instead of pleading for their acceptance.

Me and my crystal ball, eh?

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Post #: 25

RE: A woman in the White House - 5/18/2008 7:50:14 AM

FullCircle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
Yeah, right. I like the 'always', as if women never had any integrity, and the implications of devioussness. You know, if it were that easy, there'd be a hell of a lot more women holding the reigns out there.

Sorry I should have said sometimes but you have to admit the most notable ones are.

You realise I could easily argue there are fewer women in politics because so many women fear the horror stories that some women in power trot out every so often. I don't know for sure being a woman in government is any harder than being a woman anywhere else since sexist pigs exist in all walks of life.

Some women in power, it's obvious to the untrained eye, use these stories to project themselves as heroes that have already won a great injustice just by getting in power. If you are a white male you prove yourself after you get into office but it seems modern society lets some others prove themselves just by the act of getting into office, it was never like that for Thatcher and until it changes back this element of modern politics is the most damaging aspect towards equality. You can’t expect people to fall for this cynical ploy to win votes.

If you were standing as my local MP I would vote for you because you share a lot of my politics, the fact you are female doesn't really come into it but for some it is the only thing they would say about you I know you wouldn’t be happy about that but you can’t reconcile that with those in power that are. Ann Widdecombe a battle axe but a great women of politics, Mo Mowlem a battle axe but a great women of politics, Tessa Jowell ditto. The stereotype persists but I didn’t create it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
What does a pop starlet have to do it?

I'm on commission for mentioning Brittany Spears so every time I mention the name Brittany Spears I get paid an undisclosed amount by the Brittany Spears Corporation.

I only mention her because she is singing how hard her life is in her most recent song i.e. because of her public image and people seem to be lapping it up.

< Message edited by FullCircle -- 5/18/2008 7:56:28 AM >

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Post #: 26

RE: A woman in the White House - 5/18/2008 7:54:17 AM

RealityLicks

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Joined: 10/23/2007
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Just to add, of the female leaders I listed above, only one - Thatcher - was considered "cold". But she actually was cold!

It is a sexist sentiment that brands women with poor "people skills" as cold, too. The assumption is that woman are better communicators; that is a two-edged sword which means that a poorly-communicating female is considered somehow deficient.

Both men and women have cold demeanours and Hillary's seems pretty damn chilly to me.

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Post #: 27

RE: A woman in the White House - 5/18/2008 8:00:35 AM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

It's so unfair that our society still has gender-specific terminology. When will the day come when we can just call all the assholes, 'assholes?'

Whenever you like: it's up to you to call them what you like.

When will the day come when we have a broad expectation that male politicians and heads of industry are kind, and calm, and compassionate, and cute (because when they're ugly, and they invariably are, they'll get slaughtered in the press)

?

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Post #: 28

RE: A woman in the White House - 5/18/2008 8:12:41 AM

RealityLicks

Posts: 1615
Joined: 10/23/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

Some women in power, it's obvious to the untrained eye, use these stories to project themselves as heroes that have already won a great injustice just by getting in power. If you are a white male you prove yourself after you get into office but it seems modern society lets some others prove themselves just by the act of getting into office, it was never like that for Thatcher and until it changes back this element of modern politics is the most damaging aspect towards equality. You can’t expect people to fall for this cynical ploy to win votes.

Total nonsense, I'm afraid. All politicians who win election have, by definition, proven themselves. Their success or failure at winning and manitaining support for their leadership can only begin after they gain some measure of power, surely?

quote:

Ann Widdecombe a battle axe but a great women of politics, Mo Mowlem a battle axe but a great women of politics, Tessa Jowell ditto. The stereotype persists but I didn’t create it.

Ann Widdecombe achieved little and is largely memorable simply for being one of the few women to gain a job in a Conservative government. Great woman? It's quite condescending to call someone "great" when they did nothing but score a little TV exposure.

You're on stronger ground with Mowlem. Her contribution was massively important to peace in Ireland and I think she is missed by Labour at times like today. But she was anything but a "battleaxe"! That was her strongest asset.

Tessa Jowell is a political non-entity, neither fitting the "battleaxe" stereotype nor a great politician. Brown booted her out of the Cabinet (officially) and she was married to a crook who has permanently damaged her rep - which wasn't all that to begin with.

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Post #: 29

RE: A woman in the White House - 5/18/2008 8:15:39 AM

kittinSol

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

Ann Widdecombe achieved little and is largely memorable simply for being one of the few women to gain a job in a Conservative government.

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Post #: 30

RE: A woman in the White House - 5/18/2008 8:18:26 AM

RealityLicks

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Joined: 10/23/2007
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You're mean!

Of course, she is really most famous for being Britain's oldest virgin but who knows? Maybe she got lucky since she retired...

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Post #: 31

RE: A woman in the White House - 5/18/2008 8:21:22 AM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
Status: offline

Mean, moi? You said it, mate :-). Anyway, the woman converted to catholicism in protest at the Church of England for allowing women priests - unfuckingforgivable

.

PS: obviously, the above isn't all that's wrong with Widecomb.

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 5/18/2008 8:27:43 AM >

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Post #: 32

RE: A woman in the White House - 5/18/2008 8:30:57 AM

RealityLicks

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I know. And she was not alone in that action by a long shot.

I thought the best thing she ever did was to seal Michael Howard's election chances with her "something of the night about him" line. Misguided on many things she may have been and definitely a creature better suited to long-past era but she had the appearance of integrity.

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Post #: 33

RE: A woman in the White House - 5/18/2008 8:40:45 AM

FullCircle

Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks
Total nonsense, I'm afraid. All politicians who win election have, by definition, proven themselves. Their success or failure at winning and manitaining support for their leadership can only begin after they gain some measure of power, surely?

Now I know why labour have been able to stay in power for ten years by blaming the previous conservative government for all their problems. I'm not a conservative voter but even I can admit that line of blaming the previous government started to wear thin half way through the first labour government. If you want to vote for people based on the fact they are famous and have gained power rather than what they have done with the power you should really confine yourself to voting people off of channel four's big brother.

quote:

Ann Widdecombe achieved little and is largely memorable simply for being one of the few women to gain a job in a Conservative government. Great woman? It's quite condescending to call someone "great" when they did nothing but score a little TV exposure.

Correct she achieved little and yet people still remember her therefore she is a great woman of politics.

quote:

You're on stronger ground with Mowlem. Her contribution was massively important to peace in Ireland and I think she is missed by Labour at times like today. But she was anything but a "battleaxe"! That was her strongest asset.

I saw her as a battle axe not a saint; stubborn and single minded.

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Post #: 34

RE: A woman in the White House - 5/18/2008 8:41:52 AM

pahunkboy

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Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline

Im hoping for a dream ticket. it is now or never. she errored by not running in 2004.

I dont get conservatives. Who has been a better stewerd of the money? Certainly now conservative bush.

I get excited over Ron Paul, but GE would never let him win.,
BTW if we bomb Iran, get to the store and buy groceries. 2008, there is no possible way to EVER pay the debt. the currency is fiat. when we crash it wont be pretty.

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Post #: 35

RE: A woman in the White House - 5/18/2008 9:16:41 AM

RealityLicks

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Joined: 10/23/2007
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Hmmm, I can't say I agree with your views, FC.

< Message edited by RealityLicks -- 5/18/2008 9:17:15 AM >

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Post #: 36

RE: A woman in the White House - 5/18/2008 9:23:37 AM

awmslave

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After reading the original MSNBC article I get an impression of just another spinmaster's attempt to conceal the real problems why Mrs. Clinton is not succeeding. It certainly has nothing to do with sex. In fact, her sex and relationship with W. Clinton (still highly popular among some democrats) has carried her this far. She just does not have enough substance that was clearly demonstrated by young junior senator Obama winning more delegates. Clinton era is over (hopefully).

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Post #: 37

RE: A woman in the White House - 5/18/2008 9:42:09 AM

FullCircle

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Joined: 11/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks
Hmmm, I can't say I agree with your views, FC.

No they are pretty unique to me, I'm rather jaded sadly.

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Post #: 38

RE: A woman in the White House - 5/18/2008 9:46:52 AM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
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quote:

ORIGINAL: awmslave

After reading the original MSNBC article I get an impression of just another spinmaster's attempt to conceal the real problems why Mrs. Clinton is not succeeding. It certainly has nothing to do with sex. In fact, her sex and relationship with W. Clinton (still highly popular among some democrats) has carried her this far. She just does not have enough substance that was clearly demonstrated by young junior senator Obama winning more delegates. Clinton era is over (hopefully).

First you say it has nothing to do with her gender. You then go on to state she has no substance and that she is where she is today thanks to her marriage without saying why, or how. You prove that you are largely influenced by her gender.

I hear such statements all the time, without seeing much substance behind them. It's an opinion like any other, but it's nothing more than that. Nobody in power reached their position without a little bit of networking clout - indeed, for some, networking and personal relationships were everything (see: the clown you have for president).

Speaking of the above, what is 'political substance' anyway?

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 5/18/2008 9:48:07 AM >

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Post #: 39

RE: A woman in the White House - 5/18/2008 9:53:46 AM

FullCircle

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Joined: 11/24/2005
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I think I may have said this recently but I’m of the opinion that these days in the UK at least we don’t vote for people we want but we vote to get rid of people we don’t want and it seems to be a case of people outstaying their welcome are voted out on a ten year basis. I’m expecting soon a ten year conservative government that’ll change nothing and we’ll end up getting sick of that and saying once again “It can’t get worse.”

Can you tell I vote for the apathy party?

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Post #: 40

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