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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/22/2008 10:55:05 AM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
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quote:

The Catholic Monarchs were driving out both Muslims and Jews.

The Muslim pogroms against the Jews started in the 11th century well before Ferdinand and Isabella.


Yes, all true.  I didn't feel the need to give John a complete lesson in Western Civ.  I thought I'd give him a push in the right direction.  Surely there is a library in his town. 

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/22/2008 11:03:07 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

Surely there is a library in his town. 



I wouldn't bet on it.

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/22/2008 11:07:36 AM   
calamitysandra


Posts: 1682
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

Surely there is a library in his town. 



I wouldn't bet on it.


The true question is, will he be able to find a way out of the dark hole he seems to be living in.

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/22/2008 11:21:13 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		It would take an altruistic soul to have the patience to lead him out of there.

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/22/2008 12:56:08 PM   
Justme696


Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

Honestly, I think it is a good thing to study lest we travel that route again. 

Of course, the left loves to quote Hitler to try to tie him to leaders on the right.  The right prefers to compare the leaders on the left to Stalin.  Its a silly little game they play to try to prove their talking points.

I have only recently discovered my german heritage.  I think that my grandmother's family began calling themselves dutch to distance themselves from their heritage during WWII.  I never heard anyone call them "Pennsylvania Dutch" until about 3 years ago when my aunt searched out our family history.


I am dutch.
The dutch word for german 'Duits" sounds when pronounced the same as dutch. I think that is the clue. 

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/22/2008 1:00:36 PM   
Justme696


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quote:

The Muslim has been trying to take over the world since about the time of the crusades. I guess no one noticed the islamic invasions of Eastern Europe. Who do you think that Ferdinan and Isabella of Spain were fighting??? The islamic Moor!


OF course we had war with the east. LIke every country had war with anyone. It was normal then. But if you study the crusades you will notice that the West was the first with killing innocents. The sultans let, evenin the holy cities, all religions piece full live next to eachother. That is why Saladin is famous in the west and not so popular in the east. He was to soft.
Later on cruelties were  commited on both sides.

(btw during that period the assissins were invented...wel was a tribe..but we got the name from there ;) )


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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/22/2008 1:10:04 PM   
Irishknight


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696
I am dutch.
The dutch word for german 'Duits" sounds when pronounced the same as dutch. I think that is the clue. 


I just found it odd that we had to search through old records to find that out when a family member could have simply told us.  They seemed very closemouthed about the whole family history on that side.  I don't think that it was the words sounding the same as much as the attempt to disassociate themselves from Germany during a very bad time. 
Even her children were surprised to find out about our family heritage. My mother has 1 surviving aunt and she won't discuss it to this day either, at least according to my aunt who did the research.

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/22/2008 1:32:41 PM   
BrigandDoom


Posts: 155
Joined: 12/29/2007
From: Nottingham
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnSteed1967

The Muslim has been trying to take over the world since about the time of the crusades. I guess no one noticed the islamic invasions of Eastern Europe. Who do you think that Ferdinan and Isabella of Spain were fighting??? The islamic Moor!



I'm not suirprised you get flamed, the Spainish were the worst offenders when it came to forcing religion onto people! The Spanish "converted" the Aztecs,  Incas, Miyans and many other cultures in South America to Roman Catholosism. Did these people have any choice? NO! They were even a party to "ethnic cleansing" by wiping out whole tribes who refused to be converted. We Brits are guilty of both, we had the crusades which were nothing more than looting expeditions. Once the gold and other valuables were stolen, we promptly returned home to good old blighty. We also had sessions of killing catholics or protestants as well, depending on which religion our monarch followed.
 
Christians still now go out and try to convert the "un godly" to christianity. It's been going on for over 2000 years! So it's not just the muslim faith, and all of this a matter of historical record. Did Jesus not send his disciples out to convert the ungodly? Pity that the buggers couldn't decide on whether to follow the old or new testaments!
 
The basis of Islam is closely linked to the christianity, as is the Jewish faith from which the Roman Catholic faith split because the two bodies couldn't decide over which bit of the bible to follow! Thus to point the finger at the muslims is crass. Unfortunately, its people like you and that idiot that shot at a copy of the koran that give the rest of your countrymen a bad name.
 
May be you should read up on some history before spouting as it'll save you getting your arse kicked!

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/22/2008 1:43:32 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		You are aware that 'John Steed' is a Brit?.. So was Mrs Peel 

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/22/2008 1:59:30 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Not sure if this got covered earlier but this act of stupidity has indirectly cost people their lives now.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2019764/posts

(first Google citation on the list for the story)

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Profile   Post #: 230
RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/22/2008 2:02:15 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Yes, someone mentioned those repercussions a little earlier in the thread... much to the joy of those who saw it as an excellent opportunity to use the protestors as a shooting gallery.

PS: see philosophy's post #210.

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 5/22/2008 2:12:22 PM >

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/22/2008 2:02:58 PM   
Justme696


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Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696
I am dutch.
The dutch word for german 'Duits" sounds when pronounced the same as dutch. I think that is the clue. 


I just found it odd that we had to search through old records to find that out when a family member could have simply told us.  They seemed very closemouthed about the whole family history on that side.  I don't think that it was the words sounding the same as much as the attempt to disassociate themselves from Germany during a very bad time. 
Even her children were surprised to find out about our family heritage. My mother has 1 surviving aunt and she won't discuss it to this day either, at least according to my aunt who did the research.


lol  we are in The Netherlands.....the word Dutch is not even close to anything here. I will read soem about it. Curious now.
But yes..perhaps it was just to hide out of shame.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_language

well I was right about the origin at least..lol


< Message edited by Justme696 -- 5/22/2008 2:07:18 PM >

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/22/2008 2:10:23 PM   
Justme696


Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

Not sure if this got covered earlier but this act of stupidity has indirectly cost people their lives now.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2019764/posts

(first Google citation on the list for the story)


soem nice comments below there.
And soemhow..I understand all views...even though they are so different

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Profile   Post #: 233
RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/22/2008 2:13:27 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Shame,   The protesters had a legitimate gripe and needed to be allowed to blow off steam, it's a shame it got out of hand and people ended up dead.

Hope someone mails the names of those dead to the soldier who has at least a small part in their deaths, and that the soldier has years of bad dreams about them.

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Profile   Post #: 234
RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/22/2008 2:23:29 PM   
FullCircle


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Joined: 11/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BrigandDoom
We Brits are guilty of both, we had the crusades which were nothing more than looting expeditions. Once the gold and other valuables were stolen, we promptly returned home to good old blighty.


You know nothing about history, it's funny.

The crusaders were a Christian army made up of various factions from all over Europe and it was led by Richard the Lion Heart but he had to seek agreement from the other leaders involved (a war council). Secondly no looting took place because the scorched earth policy of the local Muslim fighters meant there was nothing left to loot and it was a struggle to even get to the holy city and once the crusaders were there they were so hungry and tired they turned back. It was a war of attrition with not as much fighting as people believe.

It was a great victory for the Muslims in fact because in the accepted version of history Richard gave up and was on his way home but some Christians got isolated at a fort and he had to return halfway to to help them. The local Muslim fighters were in awe of his presence, his determination sapped their self belief and so they dissipated. It was nothing like the victory either side claim it to be and the real victory was the religious understanding between the Muslims and the Christians i.e. the Muslims respected the Christian right to pilgrimage to the holy city. 

We seem to have gone backwards somewhere along the way.

(edit: ore = awe)

< Message edited by FullCircle -- 5/22/2008 2:27:11 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 235
RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/22/2008 2:40:12 PM   
Justme696


Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

Shame,   The protesters had a legitimate gripe and needed to be allowed to blow off steam, it's a shame it got out of hand and people ended up dead.

Hope someone mails the names of those dead to the soldier who has at least a small part in their deaths, and that the soldier has years of bad dreams about them.


yes, that would make him think before acting.
But blaming deads because shooting a dead object..is perhaps a little much.

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/22/2008 2:41:44 PM   
Justme696


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Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

[The crusaders were a Christian army made up of various factions from all over Europe and it was led by Richard the Lion Heart but he had to seek agreement from the other leaders involved
(edit: ore = awe)


there were several crusades ( I think 5) and not all were led by Richard ;)
The first was led by Godfried of Bouillon if I am correct...from Belgium (propably French then)

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/22/2008 2:44:22 PM   
FullCircle


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Status: offline 		Indeed but for some reason we Brits seems to claim all the historic conflicts as our own for some reason.

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/22/2008 2:44:27 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Knock knock... Richard only led the third Crusade, roughly a hundred years after the first one. These campaigns went on for centuries, until the XIVth century, actually. The first Crusades raised an impassioned feeling of murderous violence in Christians who proceeded to systematically massacre Jews... The Crusades are complex, messy, and entirely typical of the Middle-Ages. There was more to them than a simple 'Muslims vs. Christians' conflict.

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Profile   Post #: 239
RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/22/2008 2:45:29 PM   
Justme696


Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

Indeed but for some reason we Brits seems to claim all the historic conflicts as our own for some reason.


richard was French btw..lol..he couldn't even talk english

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