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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/22/2008 3:31:40 PM   
FullCircle


Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline 		I was joking about the mime it’s just for some reason a load of Christians fighting a war through the medium of mime come to mind. I didn’t mean to be historically inaccurate but I’m not a historian so I suppose it was on the cards in all fairness. In history at school we learnt about Egyptians scooping people’s brains out through their noses and that is all I ever remembered for some reason.

(edit: learned = learnt)

< Message edited by FullCircle -- 5/22/2008 3:32:53 PM >

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/22/2008 3:35:45 PM   
Justme696


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle
In history at school we learnt about Egyptians scooping people’s brains out through their noses and that is all I ever remembered for some reason.
(edit: learned = learnt)


the first steps into BDSM  lol
they wrap them and scoop them empty

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/22/2008 3:40:06 PM   
FullCircle


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Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline 		They fill them with resin hence Mr Carmoon had a big chunk of resin in his skull show up on the CT scan.

There is much doubt as to how he died but speculation is that he fell off of a hunting chariot and broke his leg.

I'm waiting for someone to correct me and say its candy floss they fill them with or they don't actually fill them at all. C’mon ya know ya wanna.

< Message edited by FullCircle -- 5/22/2008 3:47:04 PM >

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/22/2008 4:09:09 PM   
JohnWarren


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Yes, I agree. This charming medieval interlude was far too pleasant for a derail: we must go back to snide remarks and being shitty to each other  .


Maybe there's a lesson here.  To increase the ratio of light to heat we need to factor in some time.  It's like Star Trek; they were able to survive dissecting current social problems by presenting them as in the far future.

This light/heat/time thing is one thing the depresses me about today.  Much of what we are doing has happened before.  If people realized that they could look at the previous occurance, see how it turned out and what were the practical problems and apply that to the present situation with a bit more intelligence and a lot less passion.

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/22/2008 6:07:30 PM   
kittinSol


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Status: offline 		Too true, JohnWarren. Isn't it called learning from history?

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/22/2008 7:17:54 PM   
JohnWarren


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Too true, JohnWarren. Isn't it called learning from history?


As I see it, we have two choices: Learn from history, or get kicked in the butt by it.... and not consensually

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/22/2008 7:43:11 PM   
JohnWarren


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnSteed1967

I may get flamed for my views but personally I'd pin a medal on the guy.


Just what medal would that be?  The Green Crescent Recruiting Medal or the Al-Qaeda Thousand Man Enrollment Award?

We aren't fighting a country or even a group of countries.  That would be too easy.  We're fighting an idea that we are out to destroy them.  The battle really isn't with the terrorists; it's for the minds of the people in the middle.

Look here at home.  We had our own terrorists, the KKK.  Back in the '30, they were so powerful they marched in their thousands right down Pennsylvania Ave.  They, to a large extent, owned large segments of the government and had the silent support of millions.  How did they do this?  They convinced people that those people had to be in fear of the Blacks, the Catholics and the Jews.  (Think about an Arab harranging a crowd about how the "New Crusaders" had come to rape their women and destroy their religion.  See the parallel.)  Slowly, people came to realize that they really weren't in all that danger from the BCJ and they ceased supporting the KKK.  THEN, the government was able to take effective action.  It wasn't the government and then the failing support; it was the support failed and then the government could take action.

Now think what would have happened if many of the BCJ group had supported the Japanese in WWII.  AND the Japanese successfully invaded.  They would see that as proof that their fears were valid and the KKK would still be a powerful organization.

Shooting the Quran, torturing people, and things like that make it very very hard for the average Islamic to see the US in anything less than a very terrifying light.  Moderates get shut down.  (Imagine yourself trying to argue for racial harmony and people yelling from the audience "The Black Power people shot down my mother.)  Not a pleasant situation.

Frankly, I don't want to destroy Islam, but I'd sure like to make them like the Christians in Europe.  Kinda fat and happy and more interested in how the Euro is doing against the Yen than whether Christ owned his own clothes.  (A few hundred years ago, that WAS a topic that got people killed.)

My plan?  Drop millions of solar powered DVD players accompanied with Baywatch disks and see how the young guys drop their Semtex outfits and shift to Speedos.  Show them the fun of materialism.  It will drive the mullas crazy.  They can't fight on that level.

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/22/2008 7:48:12 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

My plan?  Drop millions of solar powered DVD players accompanied with Baywatch disks and see how the young guys drop their Semtex outfits and shift to Speedos.  Show them the fun of materialism.  It will drive the mullas crazy.  They can't fight on that level.



Somewhere, that is the level the war is being fought at - your idea isn't without a certain amount of capitalist devious brilliance, however. But it is, already, all about economics. War always is.

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/22/2008 7:59:50 PM   
Leatherist


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Status: offline 		That was pretty much the point I was trying to make about turning the idiot over to the Mullahs to deal with.

It's all about the pr and winning hearts and minds-can you imagine how much that would piss off  Bin Laden?

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/22/2008 8:05:36 PM   
endearing


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Status: offline 		Maybe the soldier has PTSD [Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome] ... i wonder how many other people have speculated as to the possibility.

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/22/2008 8:08:13 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Maybe he has, a lot of them get it, they got nuts (if they weren't already to start with).

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/22/2008 8:29:28 PM   
endearing


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Status: offline 		How do i start a thread posting?

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/22/2008 8:31:18 PM   
kittinSol


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Status: offline 		Go to the main page of whichever forum you want to post in, and click on "New Post". It makes a new thread.

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/23/2008 12:31:28 AM   
Justme696


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

It's all about the pr and winning hearts and minds-can you imagine how much that would piss off  Bin Laden?


I dopn't think it pisses him off. He sees this just as some other proof the west is bad.
He might be our enemy, but that guy is damn smart....sadly..

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/23/2008 12:33:08 AM   
Leatherist


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

It's all about the pr and winning hearts and minds-can you imagine how much that would piss off  Bin Laden?


I dopn't think it pisses him off. He sees this just as some other proof the west is bad.
He might be our enemy, but that guy is damn smart....sadly..


He knows our weaknesses, and exploits them quite well. Our biggest weakness right now is our own inability to relate to different cultures-and our bonehead leadership.

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/23/2008 1:47:39 AM   
Justme696


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Status: offline 		I agree with that.

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/23/2008 6:56:41 AM   
BrigandDoom


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From: Nottingham
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

quote:

ORIGINAL: BrigandDoom
We Brits are guilty of both, we had the crusades which were nothing more than looting expeditions. Once the gold and other valuables were stolen, we promptly returned home to good old blighty.


You know nothing about history, it's funny.

The crusaders were a Christian army made up of various factions from all over Europe and it was led by Richard the Lion Heart but he had to seek agreement from the other leaders involved (a war council). Secondly no looting took place because the scorched earth policy of the local Muslim fighters meant there was nothing left to loot and it was a struggle to even get to the holy city and once the crusaders were there they were so hungry and tired they turned back. It was a war of attrition with not as much fighting as people believe.

It was a great victory for the Muslims in fact because in the accepted version of history Richard gave up and was on his way home but some Christians got isolated at a fort and he had to return halfway to to help them. The local Muslim fighters were in awe of his presence, his determination sapped their self belief and so they dissipated. It was nothing like the victory either side claim it to be and the real victory was the religious understanding between the Muslims and the Christians i.e. the Muslims respected the Christian right to pilgrimage to the holy city. 

We seem to have gone backwards somewhere along the way.

(edit: ore = awe)


I do old chap, I have the degree to prove it as well!

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/23/2008 6:58:47 AM   
Irishknight


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Status: offline 		Don't worry, Brigand.  I think others may have corrected his reader's digest condensed version of the crusades.

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/23/2008 7:02:29 AM   
BrigandDoom


Posts: 155
Joined: 12/29/2007
From: Nottingham
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

quote:

ORIGINAL: BrigandDoom
We Brits are guilty of both, we had the crusades which were nothing more than looting expeditions. Once the gold and other valuables were stolen, we promptly returned home to good old blighty.


You know nothing about history, it's funny.

The crusaders were a Christian army made up of various factions from all over Europe and it was led by Richard the Lion Heart but he had to seek agreement from the other leaders involved (a war council). Secondly no looting took place because the scorched earth policy of the local Muslim fighters meant there was nothing left to loot and it was a struggle to even get to the holy city and once the crusaders were there they were so hungry and tired they turned back. It was a war of attrition with not as much fighting as people believe.

It was a great victory for the Muslims in fact because in the accepted version of history Richard gave up and was on his way home but some Christians got isolated at a fort and he had to return halfway to to help them. The local Muslim fighters were in awe of his presence, his determination sapped their self belief and so they dissipated. It was nothing like the victory either side claim it to be and the real victory was the religious understanding between the Muslims and the Christians i.e. the Muslims respected the Christian right to pilgrimage to the holy city. 

We seem to have gone backwards somewhere along the way.

(edit: ore = awe)


Infact I'll clarify that, my post was badly worded but nowhere do I state that all of the crusades were English led, but there are historic records that prove that English knights were involved in many of them, and the subsequent looting is also a matter of record. Then again we can only summise this is correct from the writings made at the time.
 
However, as with any historical subject, opinions and so-called known facts can change. I'd suggest watching some episiodes of the Time Team!

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/23/2008 7:04:20 AM   
BrigandDoom


Posts: 155
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From: Nottingham
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

Don't worry, Brigand.  I think others may have corrected his reader's digest condensed version of the crusades.


I've noticed after I posted.  History is like any subject, you can take and quote the bits that suit you, rather than looking at the bigger picture.

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