RE: Doms not wanting doormats

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abcbsex -> RE: Doms not wanting doormats (5/21/2008 8:15:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Madame4a its kind of the crux of power exchange for me... if you're a doormat, that means to me you have no personal power -- and therefore, nothing to exchange with me... [sm=applause.gif]!!!

Asherdelampyr -> RE: Doms not wanting doormats (5/21/2008 8:17:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Leatherist Most doms kinda think of a doormat as a little vampire. It fastens intself onto your neck and bleeds you of attention until you run dry. hey now, Im almost offended by that.... in all seriousness, if someone is a doormat i.e. compleatly unable to make any decisions, to the point where you wonder how they survived long enough to meet you, then I think it must be difficult to respect them, and without respect, there is no relationship

Smarthardhand -> RE: Doms not wanting doormats (5/21/2008 10:36:14 AM)
It is hard to find a sub who will use her mind. door mats = not safe situation. One who uses her mind will = great lady as a sub

uliveonce -> RE: Doms not wanting doormats (5/21/2008 11:06:30 AM)
let me approach this from a different direction. Some people who claim to be a Dom / Dominant really are nothing but domineering. Those who are domineering only see the "I get to decide and take and be bossy and demand respect" side of D/s, then bull their way through things without bothering to take on any of the (immense) responsibility load required of truly being Dom. These are the types that want a doormat. In my D/s relationships, a doormat would have lasted about 3 minutes prior to complete boredom. I want my sub to have a life, to have responsibilities, to have a fulfilling career, to have goals and aspirations and I want all of these things for her above and beyond our relationship. Certainly I run the risk of losing her due to these outside influences and not micro-managing everything. BUT, if I did keep her under lock and key and micro-managed everything, then I wouldn't "possess" something worth having. The other thing is, how can I look myself in the mirror if/when the relationship ends and I leave behind a helpless hulk of a person who is now lost and defenseless. My goal is to build my sub up, make her a stronger person, help her to learn more about herself, conquer her fears and to expand herself in any ways that she can. Helping her to do these things within the protected environment of our relationship is one of the greatest joys of D/s.

SensibleSam -> RE: Doms not wanting doormats (5/21/2008 12:39:45 PM)
Consider how you chose a puppy or kitten at the pound. You pick them up and turn them over onto their back. Some will resist and some will just lie there unprotesting. The animal trainer gurus advise that you chose the puppy that will lie on its back but will show some spirit and be eager to get right side up. You don't want too much rebellion and you don't want too much passivity.

FRSguy -> RE: Doms not wanting doormats (5/21/2008 1:14:06 PM)
For me I dont really like doormats until they are told to be that way (like in a scene). The way I do things is that there is a compley set of rules and behaviors that are both acceptable and unacceptable. Anyways, a woman needs to work within these sets but that in no way mean that she cant be a normal human being within them. So in other words, A sub is no different than any other woman other than the fact that she aims to please and taken control of when I want her to please me. Like any other household the house is managed and tasks are set ... some on a regular basis and some as needed. The subs that I have known have been very much into getting attention and the likes and so the relationship tends to be way more demanding than normal but I dont like to make every little decision and I do want someone that is a true companion and has their own opinions however its my household, my rules and my way...LOL. So she can be decorating the living room the same as any other girl and I can walk in and say what a great job your doing! Now take off your clothes so I can see how wonderful you are doing it....LOL

lronitulstahp -> RE: Doms not wanting doormats (5/21/2008 1:48:49 PM)
quote: Forgive my naivety, but I don't understand how someone can be smart and think for themselves and yet at the same time accept another's authority and decision making on their behalf. Hi flyingsolo first of all[sm=welcomewave.gif]to the boards. Now, i read your profile. You're from Canada...so let's say a sub is the Canadian people and a Dom is a MP. Now the Canadian people choose the MP, and trust that once in office the MP will act in their best interest. Once the MP is in office, they are in charge of the government and the safety of the Canadian people. And the Canadian people obey (well mostly, as you seem a law-abiding lot) the laws and statutes set up by the MP's and noone feels abused or voiceless...it's totally consensual... Sort of like the Dom/sub thing....with a few differences.[;)]

sirguym -> RE: Doms not wanting doormats (5/21/2008 2:37:22 PM)
I prefer to do my programming in a high-level language. Having to micro-manage a playmate, is like programming in machine code! I want the power to do it if and when I consider it necessary: but mostly I'd like her to work out from those instances and what I say to fill in the gaps.

flyingsolo -> RE: Doms not wanting doormats (5/21/2008 4:20:30 PM)
First, thanks to everyone for sharing their thoughts. I particularly liked the analogies to businesses etc… it makes sense that anyone in charge of anything would prefer someone smart and capable working for them within the boundaries and rules that are set than someone who would need every last thing explaining to them. And I'm guessing different Doms like different amounts of control, so the key (like I've read many times on here) would be to simply find someone I'm compatible with, someone who wants to have the same amount of control that I'm willing to give to him. I wasn't sure how much help it would be, posting on here, but it really has given me some insight. I appreciate everyone who's taken the time to write.

Leatherist -> RE: Doms not wanting doormats (5/21/2008 9:51:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: flyingsolo First, thanks to everyone for sharing their thoughts. I particularly liked the analogies to businesses etc… it makes sense that anyone in charge of anything would prefer someone smart and capable working for them within the boundaries and rules that are set than someone who would need every last thing explaining to them. And I'm guessing different Doms like different amounts of control, so the key (like I've read many times on here) would be to simply find someone I'm compatible with, someone who wants to have the same amount of control that I'm willing to give to him. I wasn't sure how much help it would be, posting on here, but it really has given me some insight. I appreciate everyone who's taken the time to write. I've said many times in the past that most successful D/s relationships are ones based more or less on a business model. I just tend to get shot down over it-people think that isn't very romantic. It IS practical however, and I look at sound mechanics in a relationship before infatuation even crosses my mind.

CelticPrince -> RE: Doms not wanting doormats (5/22/2008 7:22:54 AM)
quote: I'm new here, and this is my first post. If this has been discussed elsewhere and I have overlooked it, I apologize. I have noticed that most Masters are looking for subs/slaves who have a deep desire to serve and please them and who will accept their authority and obey them willingly. At the same time they say they don't want a doormat, they want someone who is smart and can think for themselves. Forgive my naivety, but I don't understand how someone can be smart and think for themselves and yet at the same time accept another's authority and decision making on their behalf. This may just be one of those things that I either get or I don't, or maybe with time will become more obvious to me, but if someone could help me to understand it I'd be very grateful. Thanks. solo, All too often profiles are written with an eye toward attraction on a broad basis rather than specific aspects of desire. The rational is to cull alfterward. I do not know if that owrks or not, as it is not my way. CP

epiphany -> RE: Doms not wanting doormats (5/22/2008 8:06:25 AM)
Maybe part of the key is "wanting to serve and please THEM", and obey, ect. To my way of thinking a doormat is someone with such a low self worth that they will do whatever anyone wants just to have A relationship. They are not all that particular about who that person is and just don't feel they can afford to wait for the right person to bend to. I am a very strong personality, and manage my own life quite well. I am a switch in play, and a pretty good Top in my own right. However, whatever the Man wants is the way it will be, I am absolutely under his authority and happily so. When he wants intelligent discussion and an honest opinion, he can find that here, when he wants complete surrender and obedience...he can find that here also. These two thinks do not contradict each other. He doesn't want to make every single decision for me...just the ones that matter to him. Outside of that he wants an intelligent, well rounded companion. epiphany

LPslittleclip -> RE: Dom's not wanting doormats (5/24/2008 4:28:53 PM)
my M'Lady likes my for my energy and happiness she encourages communication, i enjoy serving her. i have seen some who enjoy being the silent mindless drone as well. some submissives don't want to communicate in fear of alienating their dominant. this can be bad for all involved. i feel that with proper trust and communication among the submissives there would be fewer doormats.

Focus50 -> RE: Doms not wanting doormats (5/24/2008 6:40:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: flyingsolo I'm new here, and this is my first post. If this has been discussed elsewhere and I have overlooked it, I apologize. I have noticed that most Masters are looking for subs/slaves who have a deep desire to serve and please them and who will accept their authority and obey them willingly. At the same time they say they don't want a doormat, they want someone who is smart and can think for themselves. Forgive my naivety, but I don't understand how someone can be smart and think for themselves and yet at the same time accept another's authority and decision making on their behalf. This may just be one of those things that I either get or I don't, or maybe with time will become more obvious to me, but if someone could help me to understand it I'd be very grateful. Thanks. The most boring relationship I was ever in involved a fem/sub who would do whatever I wanted without question or hesitation.... Not that I'm into extreme anything and nor would I toy with anything idiotic to test her committment etc, but I considered her a doormat nonetheless and I couldn't take it for too long.... If there's one thing I enjoy it's disciplining the girl when she shows a bit of attitude. For that very reason, I relate better to subs who have a bit of mischief and resistance about them; who are playful and cheeky etc and who have limits.... I also like everday conversation and like to get female perspective when I'm making everyday decisions, like what colour to paint a wall, for eg... The aforementioned "doormat" sub basically had a standard reply for everything - "Whatever you (I) think/decide" etc.... Arrrrrrrgghh!!! Yet she was quite intelligent in her own right. Intelligence has nothing to do with what power dynamic you prefer to live your relationships anymore than it influences whether you're gay or straight. I'd suggest you're confusing an individuals's primal needs and instincts with what society "expects" of one's behaviour - that we live as equals.... There is nothing sexier to me than owning a sub I consider is smarter than myself; that's an ego trip - in a good way.... Focus.

MstrVik -> RE: Doms not wanting doormats (5/24/2008 7:43:12 PM)
I use a doormat for wiping dirt off my shoes, and for anything else it's quite useless - and it's definitely not sexy in any way whatsoever... :-P Seriously: There should be some degree of challenge to make someone submit, and when it happens gradually it's all the more satisfying. - Also: I want a sub/slave that submits to ME, and not to just anyone (call me selfish, but...LOL) -- It's a lot about personal chemistry in these matters, at least it's that way for me; there is a choice to be made for the sub as it is for the Dom and it only very rarely happens instantly - in short: it's a journey -- it takes some preparation to undertake, and most often that's also part of the fun...

Leonidas -> RE: Doms not wanting doormats (5/24/2008 11:30:45 PM)
quote: Forgive my naivety, but I don't understand how someone can be smart and think for themselves and yet at the same time accept another's authority and decision making on their behalf. About all that means is that you wouldn't. As long as you keep acknowledging that it's a limitation in your own thinking, rather than someone else's problem, you'll be just fine. "Doormat" is an epithet that roughly translates to "more submissive than I am". It's a way for submissives (or not so submissives) to be dismissive of those whom they might otherwise feel threatened by, because they're "more submissive than I am". Stay naieve, avoid the temptation to apply labels, and keep your eyes open. You learn more that way, and maybe even enjoy yourself more.

IdiotMale -> RE: Doms not wanting doormats (5/24/2008 11:36:43 PM)
Hmm..I wonder how many of you truly want a real slave.Sounds more like you want a challenge with submissive traits.

TheDomInTheHat -> RE: Doms not wanting doormats (5/25/2008 12:46:35 AM)
To some extent, doormats don't respect themselves, they just want someone to tell them what to do and they will obey just about anyone who seems confident. The type of woman I want to submit to me does it because she trusts me and enjoys it, not because she has low self-esteem.

Focus50 -> RE: Doms not wanting doormats (5/25/2008 2:06:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IdiotMale Hmm..I wonder how many of you truly want a real slave.Sounds more like you want a challenge with submissive traits. *At last, someone able to define what I* want and what I'm doing wrong! Tell me more; you've got my undivided blah blah... Focus.**

chickpea -> RE: Doms not wanting doormats (5/25/2008 3:13:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: flyingsolo First, thanks to everyone for sharing their thoughts. I particularly liked the analogies to businesses etc… it makes sense that anyone in charge of anything would prefer someone smart and capable working for them within the boundaries and rules that are set than someone who would need every last thing explaining to them. And I'm guessing different Doms like different amounts of control, so the key (like I've read many times on here) would be to simply find someone I'm compatible with, someone who wants to have the same amount of control that I'm willing to give to him. I wasn't sure how much help it would be, posting on here, but it really has given me some insight. I appreciate everyone who's taken the time to write. I don't think a Dom and sub relationship should be likened to a Employer and sub relationship. An employer pays an employee and expects performance based on the salary he pays. A Dom expects a sub to "perform" (not exactly work in the same way) and because the sub is motivated by either the tangible or intangible (not exactly a biweekly paycheck). More often than not it will be intangible and emotional. Emotions based on whether the Dom treats them as more than a performance monkey/circus animal. Perform for me or you're outta here...that's not a way to develop a successful long term D/S relationship. Rather, it's a recipe for a sub to keep performing her circus animal entertaining acts (for no biweekly check...least she be accussed of being a whore/golddigger), until she messes up (which will be sooner than later) and then a Dom dumping her. I think focusing on the amount of control is all wrong. If there is no direction to the whole D/S thing, it doesn't matter whether the amount of control is right or wrong, the D/S thing won't work. The focus should be the goals of D/S, such as increasing the amount of control a sub is willing to give up, or taking care of the Dom's health issues, or being the best sub ever. The amount of control will work itself out: it is fluid and always changes, and depends on the two individuals involved. Just my hunch. A Dom who had no direction other than not wanting a doormat doesn't provide a sub with a vision and with respect for his/her Dom. Subs need direction and they need to respect their Dom and who he is as a person and someone they can trust physically and emotionally, they don't need a Dom that is constantly trying to judge them or control them, using the sub to fulfill a need in themselves that they should be taking care of themselves.

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