RE: Doms not wanting doormats

RE: Doms not wanting doormats (Full Version)

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wandering4u -> RE: Doms not wanting doormats (5/25/2008 4:26:34 AM)
Basically, it is about what you want. Personally, I want a sub who can think for herself and offers herself with the full knowledge of what she is doing. To me, that decision is what makes the relationship. If all I wanted was a doormat, I'd be bored silly after the first hour!

sambamanslilgirl -> RE: Doms not wanting doormats (5/25/2008 6:27:11 AM)
Daddy is a good example of a dominant who was searching for an independent, intelligent, etc woman as His submissive/daughter. He didn't want someone that He would have to micromanage day in and out - that's not His style. it's not hard to hard over authority and control to someone like Him who is nurturing, loving, and caring. asking permission and willingly obeying Daddy gradually came with the process when i submitted to Him.

Degradethehog -> RE: Doms not wanting doormats (5/25/2008 7:18:22 AM)
Although I am a submissive pig, I wanted to answer this question, also being into being objectified. I don't mind being objectified into furnature peices through humiliation but even if one is becoming a doormat for someone doesn't mean in reality that may be how they truly are at all times. Communication seems very important, the more so when one is dehumanized. Why would anyone desire someone that inferior around them?

chickpea -> RE: Doms not wanting doormats (5/25/2008 10:58:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Leatherist Most doms kinda think of a doormat as a little vampire. It fastens intself onto your neck and bleeds you of attention until you run dry. That's ridiculous. How can a doormat attack you?! Much less kill you and leave a lifeless dried pulp of a man on the floor? Pulp being worse than a doormat? Is this some hidden fantasy of yours? [image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m11.gif[/image] Inquiring minds want to know... I just want to speak in defense of the doormats...[image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m22.gif[/image] as they seem outnumbered... Well, first all doms are training their subs to obey completely. So is it the chase that matters? Or is it the end-result that matters? Of course in the end result you want a lively doormat. One that obeys and doesn't resist your will (not too much), and they also can do some backflips. But come on, are doms after entertainment OR are doms after obedience. Looks like some are just out for thrills and a nice fun distraction. And are fake doms not after the D/S relationship where one control and one obeys. Hey, I respect that some people just do this part time due to life constraints or money or whatever, and others due it 24/7 fulltime. Why don't all you doms attacking the poor doormats just admit you're after thrills and an interesting pasttimes, and not lifestyle doms? This just puts another whole new spin on doormat. And just leave those that love to obey ALONE. [image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m6.gif[/image] DOORMATS RULE ... and unlike circus animals, they give you a pleasant welcome and keep dirt from entering the house. LONG LIVE DOORMATS LONG LIVE DOORMATS!

flyingsolo -> RE: Doms not wanting doormats (5/25/2008 11:30:36 AM)
I've been reading all the posts on this thread and it is gradually making more sense to me. I think now that the decision to obey someone isn't an intellectual one. I think it comes from an emotional desire within. It makes no difference whether I've got several degrees to my name (which I haven't, btw) or whether I'm lucky I made it through high school (which I did) - if I feel emotionally satisfied by pleasing and obeying a man I trust and respect, then that is what it comes down to. Not how smart or capable I am as a person. Like I said, I'm new to this and I'm just trying to figure out where I'm coming from and what I want. I don't mean to label or offend anyone. After reading chickpea's post above, she raised the question I was kinda confused about in the beginning and the reason why I posted in 'Ask a Master', which was how can a Dom want to train a sub to obey completely but at the same time not want a 'doormat' who typically will obey completely? Maybe I'm starting to over think things...

gypsygrl -> RE: Doms not wanting doormats (5/25/2008 11:49:32 AM)
quote: how can a Dom want to train a sub to obey completely but at the same time not want a 'doormat' who typically will obey completely? Maybe I'm starting to over think things... Nono. You're not overthinking at all. This is the point where the rubber meets the road. Your question points to a contradiction, and one I haven't seen adequately addressed. Of course, I don't have an answer 'cuz, like, domming ain't my thing.

Lordandmaster -> RE: Doms not wanting doormats (5/25/2008 11:57:54 AM)
It's a good question, and several people have given you thoughtful answers in this thread. My short answer is that I don't want to own a dog. I want to own a human being. The more capable she is, and the more she can do for herself, the more meaningful it is for me to own her. I'm not just talking about practical benefits, although those can be huge. (Isn't it a whole lot easier to have someone reliable than someone you have to do everything for?) Psychologically, the difference is huge. Having a powerful woman submit to you is much more fulfilling than having a weakling submit to you. Really, whom would you rather have sucking your dick: the CEO or the cleaning lady? The cleaning lady might just suck any halfway respectable dick that was offered to her. quote: ORIGINAL: flyingsolo Forgive my naivety, but I don't understand how someone can be smart and think for themselves and yet at the same time accept another's authority and decision making on their behalf.

Floggings4You -> RE: Doms not wanting doormats (5/25/2008 11:58:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phin someone on my messenger list uses the sig line "submission is not a sign of weakness" I want someone that I can speak to that can tell me her desires as well. A Ds relationship is like a vanilla relationship, it is cyclical, all people in the in the relationship benifit in some way. I want soemone that can show that she is getting her needs/desires. This is something My submissive has struggled with, and still sometimes questions. Her previous Dom did not really care all that much whether her needs were being met. Since He was her first Dom, and she first learned about--and experienced--the lifestyle under His tuteledge, she has struggled with her mis-conception that it isn't 'Domly' for Me to truly feel for her, to care whether she has her needs met, etc. What I envision when someO/one talks of 'doormats', is a person who submits to whatever, to whomever, without question or concern. A 'doormat' is a 'thing'--not by choice (which can be HOT!) but by 'default'. What I wanted (and found) is a person who chooses to submit to Me, who truly enjoys having done to her the very same things I enjoy doing to her, and who enjoys trying new things along with Me. In fact, what turns Me on the most is knowing just how excited she gets when I do all those lovely/nasty things to her. A 'doormat' wouldn't care, one way or the other, and, at least for Me, that wouldn't be very much fun at all.

MstrVik -> RE: Doms not wanting doormats (5/25/2008 1:08:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IdiotMale Hmm..I wonder how many of you truly want a real slave.Sounds more like you want a challenge with submissive traits. I think it's become pretty clear in this thread that it's all about definitions, and also a highly individual matter. All Masters are not the same, and it is the same with slaves. - Would you consider yourself to be the definition of a 'real slave'? If so, I'm curious about how you may have reached that level of perfection and expertice. It's not that simple, and it can often be quite annoying when a submissive approaches you with an already defined version of their role - though sometimes that is actually part of the challenge. The idea of 'one size fits all' doesn't apply here.

subforreal -> RE: Doms not wanting doormats (5/25/2008 1:16:13 PM)
i too am a sub.. and think for myself..but where are the masters, that can take control of me. I want to give over, but need to have a push. I am not a door mat. but i am a sub. I am searching for the manipulative master, who not only takes control of me, but that i feel confident can make good choices for me. I worry becouse I am so very sub, I have few to no limits.. but when it comes to my professional life, I need a master that can help me guide my life course. The scary part is how many masters on here have few life accomplishments. Help me find a mentor master.. Sir.. very submissive for very dom sir...

uliveonce -> RE: Doms not wanting doormats (5/25/2008 1:49:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Floggings4You This is something My submissive has struggled with, and still sometimes questions. Her previous Dom did not really care all that much whether her needs were being met. Since He was her first Dom, and she first learned about--and experienced--the lifestyle under His tuteledge, she has struggled with her mis-conception that it isn't 'Domly' for Me to truly feel for her, to care whether she has her needs met, etc. I have personally experienced this and see it all the time. Subs who think that being a sub means that the Dom should treat them like crap, shouldn't worry about the sub as a person, should only take. Maybe this works for some people, but in my world things need balance. example: perhaps my sub has been in attentive in a task and she needs to be disciplined (notice I did not say punished) and her discipline is 10 paddlings. I make her get the paddle, tell me why she is being paddled, ask her if she understands why or if I was lax in my directions and that she accepts the need for discipline, then paddle her (which probably makes both of us hott). Then make sure she is ok and hold her to make sure she knows that I am there for her and that this is about training not about me being abusive. Then when she has come down, ask her again if she knows why she was disciplined, if she understands better the way I want tasks completed, and when she understands, kiss her and tell her how good of a sub she is and how glad I am to have her. For me, this provides the balance that a relationship needs. D/s is definitely there, but so is compassion, true caring and a bond. For me there is nothing that says I am not Domly if I am not a complete ass, but I can't count the number of times a sub has seen my compassion/empathy as a sign that I am not really a Dom or that I am weak. Its pretty sad really. But hey, if that's their gig, better to find out earlier than later. quote: ORIGINAL: Floggings4You What I envision when someO/one talks of 'doormats', is a person who submits to whatever, to whomever, without question or concern. A 'doormat' is a 'thing'--not by choice (which can be HOT!) but by 'default'. My definition as well. Doormat = one who has no self and thus has no choice but to submit to any and all who lay claim = very unappealing quote: ORIGINAL: Floggings4You What I wanted (and found) is a person who chooses to submit to Me, who truly enjoys having done to her the very same things I enjoy doing to her, and who enjoys trying new things along with Me. In fact, what turns Me on the most is knowing just how excited she gets when I do all those lovely/nasty things to her. Then you and she are indeed very lucky. I had that once, well actually twice. The first time I was too new to realize it. My loss. The second time, well I think we both lost.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Doms not wanting doormats (5/25/2008 1:53:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster It's a good question, and several people have given you thoughtful answers in this thread. My short answer is that I don't want to own a dog. I want to own a human being. The more capable she is, and the more she can do for herself, the more meaningful it is for me to own her. I'm not just talking about practical benefits, although those can be huge. (Isn't it a whole lot easier to have someone reliable than someone you have to do everything for?) Psychologically, the difference is huge. Having a powerful woman submit to you is much more fulfilling than having a weakling submit to you. Really, whom would you rather have sucking your dick: the CEO or the cleaning lady? The cleaning lady might just suck any halfway respectable dick that was offered to her. While I understand and agree with the general point you are making, I personally do not equate numbers with quality. Nor do I equate strength with professional status. Just because a person sucks any dick that is offered, does NOT mean that they are not strong, or that sucking YOUR cock is less meaningful. But I'm poly so I view things based on individual relationship dynamics, numbers and slut orientation is irrelevant to me.

gypsygrl -> RE: Doms not wanting doormats (5/25/2008 2:07:08 PM)
quote: Really, whom would you rather have sucking your dick: the CEO or the cleaning lady? The cleaning lady might just suck any halfway respectable dick that was offered to her. And the CEO wouldn't? I mean, seriously, how much do you know about the sex lives of CEO's? Or cleaning ladies, for that matter? You think the CEO is just sitting behind his/her desk waiting for that special dick to come his/her way? My guess, and admittedly its as good as yours probably is, is that s/he's already done most the janitorial staff. But, who am I to jump all over your fantasies? :)

CruelDesires -> RE: Doms not wanting doormats (5/25/2008 4:00:43 PM)
Some would say that those who follow the true Master/slave lifestyle do look for slaves who are doormats. To each their own. :) CD

Lordandmaster -> RE: Doms not wanting doormats (5/25/2008 4:19:33 PM)
Yes, I had a feeling someone was going to respond to that. It was an analogy; I didn't mean it literally. Sure, you might be able to have a great relationship with a cleaning lady, and I'm not implying that cleaning ladies are all just looking for the nearest dick they can find. (Or that CEO's should necessarily rank at the top of everyone's list.) What I meant was that someone who would submit to just about anyone is a lot less interesting to own than someone strong enough not to submit to any loser who wanders around. There is a certain doormat type who submits because she can't take care of herself and needs someone to do everything for her. That type isn't very desirable, and part of the reason is that just about anyone can have her. Edited to add: Yes, gypsygrl (Post #53), it was an ANALOGY. But I can tell you that female CEO's tend not to have done the entire janitorial staff. Speaking of fantasies! quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster It's a good question, and several people have given you thoughtful answers in this thread. My short answer is that I don't want to own a dog. I want to own a human being. The more capable she is, and the more she can do for herself, the more meaningful it is for me to own her. I'm not just talking about practical benefits, although those can be huge. (Isn't it a whole lot easier to have someone reliable than someone you have to do everything for?) Psychologically, the difference is huge. Having a powerful woman submit to you is much more fulfilling than having a weakling submit to you. Really, whom would you rather have sucking your dick: the CEO or the cleaning lady? The cleaning lady might just suck any halfway respectable dick that was offered to her. While I understand and agree with the general point you are making, I personally do not equate numbers with quality. Nor do I equate strength with professional status.

flyingsolo -> RE: Doms not wanting doormats (5/25/2008 4:58:39 PM)
Ok... so thanks to the replies on this thread I am beginning to understand how I can be strong and independent yet at the same time submit to another. I also gather that smart women are generally more desirable as subs because they are more interesting than those who simply agree with everything. But I still don't understand how a Dom can want to train a sub to obey completely but at the same time state that they do not want a 'doormat' (who typically will obey completely). Is it a challenge thing? As in, it's more rewarding to feel like you have worked with the sub to get the submission rather than it just be handed over to you? Is it more meaningful to do the training yourself? If the goal is complete obedience, why would you not want someone who will give that to you right away?

KnightofMists -> RE: Doms not wanting doormats (5/25/2008 5:14:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: flyingsolo But I still don't understand how a Dom can want to train a sub to obey completely but at the same time state that they do not want a 'doormat' (who typically will obey completely). Is it a challenge thing? As in, it's more rewarding to feel like you have worked with the sub to get the submission rather than it just be handed over to you? Is it more meaningful to do the training yourself? If the goal is complete obedience, why would you not want someone who will give that to you right away? You seem to equate Obeying completely with Agreeing Completely. One can Obey and not agree with the command. Getting agreement from the submissive is not getting submissive in my world... Obedience to the will of another is Submissive in my world. The submissive may agree or may not agree with the particular command... but regardless they submit... sometimes after expressing their contrary opinion. Now.. Since no person is prefect.. it is a good idea to have submissive/slave that can think for themselves and consider the consequences of commands given. It might be the submissive sees something that a Dominant doesn't.. and hense will give their opinion. Said Dominant might say .. yeah your right.. do Y instead of X. Or he might still say do X.

kyraofMists -> RE: Doms not wanting doormats (5/25/2008 5:17:59 PM)
Well, if your definition of doormat is to be completely obedient, then what is wrong with that? That means that I am a doormat by your definition and yet I am also a strong woman completely capable of making my own decisions or asking to state my opinion if I think it is necessary. It may be that the people who make these statements have a different definition of doormat. For me, there is more to being a doormat than complete obedience. For me, it carries a conotation of harm; a doormat is someone who will be completely obedient even if they are being harmed. By my definition, I am not a doormat. Knight's Kyra

BamaD -> RE: Doms not wanting doormats (5/25/2008 5:40:32 PM)
The Dom wants her to obey him completely, not every Tom, Dick and Harry that comes along. There is also pride in "ownership" Having someone who nobody messes with means you have a far more valuable sub. She has value without you not just from you.

flyingsolo -> RE: Doms not wanting doormats (5/25/2008 6:24:02 PM)
BamaD - Thank you! That totally makes sense to me. I want to say thanks to everyone who has posted on this thread - so many interesting points were made and all of it has been a great help and made a lot of things clearer to me. I guess I'll be back when I have more questions…..

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