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BDSM Versus Abuse - 2/26/2004 10:52:07 AM   
kharah


Posts: 7
Joined: 2/20/2004
Status: offline 		BDSM vs Abuse


Unknown Author



The key difference between S&M and Abuse, is "consent".
* Consent = Is an agreed approval of what is done and/or proposed by another.
* Abuse = to use so as to injure or damage: MALTREAT

S&M
* Is based on the safe, sane, consensual theory
* S&M is a controlled environment
* S&M has safe words to stop the scene
* In a S&M scene the dominant looks out for the well being of the submissive
* S&M can be an erotic sexual encounter
* In S&M both partners are enjoying themselves
* in S&M the dominant respects limits
* In S&M there is mutual respect
* In S&M the relationship is fulfilling
* In S&M both parties feel they contribute towards the relationships
* In S&M one can ask their partner to "play"
* In S&M relationship there is trust
* In S&M a submissive voluntarily serves the dominant
* S&M is about building trust
* S&M builds self esteem
* S&M builds the spirit of a submissive

Abuse
* Abuse is not negotiated
* Abuse is an out of control environment
* Abuse does not have safe words
* An abuser does not give a damn about the victim
* Abuse is always one sided
* Abuse is never negotiated.
* In abuse, no one is enjoying the results
* The abuser is into non consensual violence
* The victim has no respect towards the abuser
* In abuse the victim is harmed
* In abuse both parties are left unfulfilled
* The abuser always feel they are superior
* A person does not ask for abuse
* In an abusive relationship there is no trust
* The abuser does not care for consent
* Abuse has no trust
* Abuse destroys self esteem
* An abuser destroys the spirit of the victim





Dominants!!! Before you get in trouble know :
* A sub may be in subspace and not have the presence to stop the scene. Watch for your submissives well
being
* "Recalling," also known as "Flashbacks." Example of this can be, a sub who was raped years ago, and
during a humiliation scene, has a recall of that traumatic moment. Know thy sub. Don't let her flip out.
* Always clean your toys. Do not use the same toys without using condoms each time. Wash the toys after each
use. Do Not use same sex toys during multiple partner scenes, without changing condoms.
* Always use common sense. You are playing with a human being, who has given you the gift of trust.
Don't abuse that trust.
* Reputation takes a lifetime to earn, yet a measly second to lose. For a moment of gratification, don't ruin someone's life.



Don't be abused...Recognize the Signs
Physical abuse is all of the following:
* Hit, choke, slap, threaten or hurt you outside the scene content.
* The abuser will force sexual acts upon you, even if you are not in the mood
* Will rarely respect your physical limits
Mental/emotional abuse consist of:
* Isolating you from your friends, family or others
* Putting you constantly into a confused state
* Constantly being criticized
* Making you financially depended upon them
* They are constantly draining you of your finances
* You constantly have to watch what you say around them
* Making you feel worthless
* Blames you for all misfortunes
* Extreme jealousy on their part
* You being constantly afraid to speak to your partner
* Never listening to your concerns
* Constantly asking you for financial support
* You living constantly in the state of "Walking on Egg shells"


In case of Abuse:
* Contact National Domestic Violence Hotline 1-800-799-SAFE (7233) or 1-800-787-3224
* Leave the relationship
* Contact your family or friends
* Contact your religious leaders
* Call your local police department
* Get Local Counseling.
Sites for Victims of Abuse:
* Violence Against Women Office - New Hotline Inf
* Yahoo! Society and Culture:Crime:Crimes:Domesti
* The Domestic Abuse Project of Delaware County
* Y LD - Domestic Violence and The Law
* Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network
* Sexual Assault Information Page
* Kink Aware Professionals
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: BDSM Versus Abuse - 2/27/2004 6:33:49 AM   
belongtoyou


Posts: 168
Joined: 1/21/2004
Status: offline 		Thank you kharah for posting this important information!

i am new to bdsm, and it's easy for some to get these two things confused.

i'm glad that you've spelled this out so clearly; safety and well being are essential for everyone in this life!

Thank you again!

~rain~

(in reply to kharah)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: BDSM Versus Abuse - 5/31/2004 10:40:10 PM   
MistressDREAD


Posts: 2943
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		needs a bump

(in reply to belongtoyou)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: BDSM Versus Abuse - 5/31/2004 10:51:11 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline 		The main issue I have with the ideas in this thread revolve around the issue of consent.

Consent is technically not possible between an adult and a minor. Sure, in specific instances it may be, but. Consent is technically not possible between a teacher and student, psychiatrist and patient, doctor and patient, or guard and prisoner. There is a power dynamic between these people based on their roles which makes true "consent" impossible.

From my opinion, each relationship needs to be examined both from the standpoint of consent between the parties AND any outstanding power dynamics which come into play.

A relationship which is non-consensual (to me) is abusive. And all aspects of two peoples relationships need to be taken into play, not just what is negotiated over coffee.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to MistressDREAD)
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RE: BDSM Versus Abuse - 6/1/2004 12:33:29 AM   
MistressKiss


Posts: 295
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Excellent comments, and I agree that the key word is consent. I think I have mentioned this before, but my mentor used to keep the submissive's play list out and in plain view when scening. If there was ever a question, he had it handy and could say "you did, or did not, consent to this activity?" - He has never had issues with this careful "ounce of prevention" and feels it contributes to him being considered an upstanding dominant in the BDSM community. It's not the only thing...but it's one of many factors.

_____________________________

"I assure you, Your Honor, I don't have to practice...I'm very good at them..."
(The Marquis de Sade at one of his trials for the sexual perversities he practiced)

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: BDSM Versus Abuse - 6/1/2004 2:09:36 AM   
GoddessMarissa


Posts: 247
Joined: 4/10/2004
From: Las Vegas NV
Status: offline 		I thought your post was right on, alot of people need to read this and know the difference. Many abbuse and dont even know that there doing it. I think it's really sad how people get it confused and abuse when not even knowing. BDSM is a different kind of loving, I have had many contact me and say I dont want to be hurt physically, that just shows that people on the outside really dont know. I feel it can be more mental abuse than physical, that's how it usually starts. It's good for people to see how the abuse starts. I try to comfort the new ones tying to experiment and walk them though. At first for some it might be more mental than physical and then they slowly progress. As long as they know the difference and can call it what it is they will know the difference and know how to keep themselves safe with a consensensual relationship.

_____________________________

D/s makes the world go round~~
www.Domina.ms/love

(in reply to kharah)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: BDSM Versus Abuse - 6/1/2004 3:18:02 AM   
inyouagain


Posts: 418
Joined: 1/6/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy
Consent is technically not possible between an adult and a minor. Sure, in specific instances it may be, but. Consent is technically not possible between a teacher and student, psychiatrist and patient, doctor and patient, or guard and prisoner. There is a power dynamic between these people based on their roles which makes true "consent" impossible.

I should hope not, adults and minors should not be engaged in consensual BDSM activities. As far as role playing (with an adult playing the role of a minor), the bottom side of the dynamic is still an adult, consenting to role playing the bottom side, whether it's the role of a minor or whatever... still a consenting adult.

However, pile up all the consent you want and see where it get's you in the legal system if your consensual play partner becomes injured or involved with watchdog agencies. Often these agencies operate in hardcore assistance mode... provide the victim assistance once the victim has been identified, whether voluntarily or involuntarily by some other referral such a Doctor, Lawyer or Indian Chief. Outside agency referrals are difficult to explain away, and sadly can be priorotized higher than a genuine abuse victim.

While I agree with/support abuse agencies and safe havens for the truly abused, it's not a fun situation when these agencies become involved with consensual play aftermath (bruises, whipping marks, etc), and don't care whether it was consensual.

It can be a double-edged sword as opposed to simply being a safety net. This aspect has been discussed in other threads, especially legal fallout for consensual play.

Inyouagain

_____________________________

Careful with that axe, Eugene

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: BDSM Versus Abuse - 6/22/2004 5:40:21 PM   
ravenblade


Posts: 30
Joined: 6/20/2004
Status: offline 		Excellent post...I should print this out for a CPM....LOL

(in reply to inyouagain)
Profile   Post #: 8
SM vs. Abuse: Policy Statement - 6/25/2004 4:05:49 PM   
PANtheDRAGON


Posts: 6
Joined: 6/19/2004
Status: offline 		SM vs. Abuse: Policy Statement
National Coalition for Sexual Freedom
www.ncsfreedom.org

The following Principles and Guidelines are intended to help law enforcement and social services professionals understand the difference between abusive relationships vs. consensual sadomasochism (SM). SM includes a broad and complex group of behaviors between consenting adults involving the consensual exchange of power, and the giving and receiving of intense erotic sensation and/or mental discipline.
SM includes: "intimate activities within the scope of informed consent that is freely given."
Abuse is: "Physical, sexual or emotional acts inflicted on a person without their informed and freely given consent."

Principles
The SM-Leather-Fetish communities recognize the phrase "Safe, Sane, Consensual" as the best brief summary of principles guiding SM practices:
Safe is being knowledgeable about the techniques and safety concerns involved in what you are doing, and acting in accordance with that knowledge.
Sane is knowing the difference between fantasy and reality, and acting in accordance with that knowledge.
Consensual is respecting the limits imposed by each participant at all times. One of the recognized ways to maintain limits is through a "safeword" which ensures that each participant can end his/her participation with a word or gesture.
[***Actually, many in the community now favor the term RACK for Risk Aware Consensual Kink as a more legally defensible term - PAN]

Guidelines
Informed consent must be judged by balancing the following criteria for each encounter at the time the acts occurred:

Was informed consent expressly denied or withdrawn?
Were there factors that negated the informed consent?
What is the relationship of the participants?
What was the nature of the activity?
What was the intent of the accused abuser?

Whether an individual's role is top/dominant or bottom/submissive, they could be suffering abuse if they answer no to any of the following questions:

Are your needs and limits respected?
Is your relationship built on honesty, trust, and respect?
Are you able to express feelings of guilt or jealousy or unhappiness?
Can you function in everyday life?
Can you refuse to do illegal activities?
Can you insist on safe sex practices?
Can you choose to interact freely with others outside of your relationship?
Can you leave the situation without fearing that you will be harmed, or fearing the other participant(s) will harm themselves?
Can you choose to exercise self-determination with money, employment, and life decisions?
Do you feel free to discuss your practices and feelings with anyone you choose?

These guidelines were created by activists and leaders at the Leather Leadership Conference in 1998.

[***See links for NCSF and LLC under the Resource Link section of these boards - PAN]

(in reply to kharah)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: BDSM Versus Abuse - 6/27/2004 4:10:11 PM   
iwillserveu


Posts: 1633
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		eat me, I consent :)

He consented. Was eating him abuse?

Of course he was only a supplicant, right? Dread, Thantosian, Estring, etc., what is your take? Did the slave have the right to not be eaten if he changed his mind? Did his begging to be eaten absolve the eater?

There are no wrong answers, just ones that should not be read after eating.

< Message edited by iwillserveu -- 6/27/2004 4:13:08 PM >

_____________________________

When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

(in reply to kharah)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: BDSM Versus Abuse - 6/27/2004 7:18:53 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Of course he was only a supplicant, right? Dread, Thantosian, Estring, etc., what is your take? Did the slave have the right to not be eaten if he changed his mind? Did his begging to be eaten absolve the eater?


From my perspective, a submissive begging to be killed and eaten is putting their personal safety in the hands of another, and more importantly Topping from the bottom if the Dominant is not in to murder and cannibalism.

Absolution exists in the person's relationship to society (where the answer would be No in most modern societies from Hammurabai forward), the individuals values and mores (who knows what the answer would be) and his divine connection (Depends on the diety / dieties in question's opinion)

My take on the whole thing is somebody who was suicidal dreamed up an interesting way to give the responsibility for his suicide to another person. Then found a partner in crime to absolve him from responsibility for his/her own death.

My opinion, probably wrong, but Im stuck with it...

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to iwillserveu)
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RE: BDSM Versus Abuse - 6/28/2004 2:11:34 AM   
iwillserveu


Posts: 1633
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

My opinion, probably wrong, but Im stuck with it...
- Sinergy

There is no such thing as a wrong opinion

_____________________________

When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: BDSM Versus Abuse - 6/28/2004 8:38:10 PM   
seasonedslave


Posts: 7
Joined: 5/27/2004
Status: offline 		Wonderful insights and information. Would have been most valuable in avoiding damage when she was new to the l/s.

(in reply to iwillserveu)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Consent - 6/28/2004 10:48:02 PM   
MisPandora


Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline 		Consent in the legal arena is also a very touchy subject. There are many states that do not allow for the aspect of consent to be considered in such things as a charge of assault, etc. In other words, this protects folks from the situation where they say, "Hit me with your best shot", get hit in the head and seriously injured or worse, and the striking party walk away scot free.

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Consent - 6/29/2004 10:41:31 AM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

There is no such thing as a wrong opinion


Theoretically this true. I make this statement because I want people to know that I am not a slave to my opinions and theories and am willing to explore and learn new things.

Additionally, I am not going to engage in conflict to prove to anybody else that my opinion is the correct one.

There is a principle in certain martial arts which utilizes physics. Person A attempts to strike Person B with something. Person B hits (countering energy) the blow, so even if it lands, the energy is dissipated. In my experience on message boards (worked in cyberspace since it was arpanet) making a statement like that deflates / dissipates incoming flaming.

Just my opinion and I could be wrong.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to MisPandora)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: BDSM Versus Abuse - 7/1/2004 7:14:45 PM   
redflame


Posts: 5
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline 		my first experience with a Dom, was a nightmare... that was long before i knew that Doms had honor, and that Their word was more than Their bond..
i did not keep it to myself... what happened that one time was abuse, and what this one craves is the control of One that takes control without harm

(in reply to kharah)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: BDSM Versus Abuse - 7/2/2004 2:50:22 AM   
iwillserveu


Posts: 1633
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		My first experience was horrorible comedy of errors. Chalk up the first time as a learning experience.

It took me a long time to get over that. Are you over your abuser?

_____________________________

When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

(in reply to redflame)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: BDSM Versus Abuse - 7/2/2004 4:31:22 AM   
UtahGoddess


Posts: 205
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Utah
Status: offline 		A point to ponder......

First of all.....I do not advocate abuse. I truly hope those that find themselves with an abusive partner LEAVE......get therapy, etc ...... something to change the situation.

I however, (except where children are present) do not feel a moral obligation to rescue you. If an adult person KNOWINGLY stays in or returns to an abusive relationship they are, in my opinion, CONSENTING to the situation. (Children should be removed....period)

I don't feel I have the right to impose my morals and ethics to force adults to conduct their relationships the way I think they should. Any more than I want outsiders directing my interpersonal relationships according to their standards.

If someone wants help....wants to change....then we should make every effort to assist that change. But those that stay...or return to an abuser need to accept some responsibility for their condition.

Being ambushed by a tiger is a victim. Knowing the tiger is dangerous and voluntarily returning to it's cage is something else.

Bracing for the flames

Ms Sandi

_____________________________

"The Masochist desires to experience stronger sensations, but desires that it should be inflicted with Love. The Sadist desires to inflict stronger sensations, but desires that it should be felt as Love" Havelock Ellis The Project Gutenberg

(in reply to iwillserveu)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: BDSM Versus Abuse - 7/2/2004 12:23:52 PM   
iwillserveu


Posts: 1633
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		MS. Sandi,

Tough question. There are no good answers and certainly no correct ones.

Did you read of the guy who consented to be eaten in Germany. He is on video tape consenting and then he and his, um , eater eat his fried penis. The rest of the tape has him being slaughtered and eaten.

Was that murder? Did his consent make it OK? Is it anyone's business? Was the eatee demostratable nuts by virtue of wanting to be killed, and if so is a crazy persons consent legally acceptable?

_____________________________

When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

(in reply to UtahGoddess)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: BDSM Versus Abuse - 7/2/2004 2:21:48 PM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline
quote:

My first experience was horrorible comedy of errors. Chalk up the first time as a learning experience.


Would love to hear more iwillserveu.

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan


(in reply to iwillserveu)
Profile   Post #: 20
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