RE: BDSM Versus Abuse

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RE: BDSM Versus Abuse - 7/2/2004 3:15:37 PM

Estring

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I think in society there are laws that supercede an individuals' rights in certain circumstances. I don't think that just because someone wants to be eaten makes it right to do. It may not be abuse, but it is still against the law.

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RE: BDSM Versus Abuse - 7/2/2004 5:52:57 PM

jillwfsub4blkdom

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what does the community feel about a Dom who refuses to heed the safeword and doesn't stop? i met a Dom from this community who wouldn't allow me to leave or stop when i used the safewords.

jill

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RE: BDSM Versus Abuse - 7/2/2004 6:20:18 PM

proudsub

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quote:

what does the community feel about a Dom who refuses to heed the safeword and doesn't stop?

I think he's a jerk if you agreed on a safeword ahead of time. I would stay away from him that can lead to or already is abuse.

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RE: BDSM Versus Abuse - 7/8/2004 4:30:35 PM

MistressZanthia

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I am going to attempt to field this one.

I am not saying it's right, that the man who "consented" to being eaten was sane, and able to choose what he did, regardless of the moral argument here.

But, in all truth, if someone wants to die, be it assisted suicide (which is what I believe he chose to do) or actual suicide I do believe it is their business. And I'll tell you why. Regardless of those left behind, it could be argued that he didn't choose to be born in the first place. It could be argued that he, and solely he is responsible for his own life/body and though you may deem it "selfish"... he ultimately had the right to choose whether or not he wanted to continue with his life. You can label him not of sound mind if you want, but isn't it possible that some people just don't have a desire to be here? Isn't it possible that we, any one of us didn't choose to be here. Now who's selfish? The parents who wanted to have a child or this child himself who grew up and had never intended to be here?

Off topic, I know... but you are talking apples and oranges boy. Abuse and deciding to participate in assisted suicide are not the same thing. I know, as someone who chose to remain in an abusive relationship for a total of 13 years, and no matter how much people tried to help me get out, I kept going back. Sandi is right, you cannot help those who don't want to be helped. It's not possible and forcing them only makes it worse.

It's nice to play humanitarian on the boards in hopes someone will buy your liberal attitude and like you for it, it's another to know what the difference between abusive relationships and BDSM relationships really is. Pay attention: There is an incredible number of truly "abusive" people running around calling themselves "Dom/mes". I'd hate to be a submissive woman in this day and age... good thing I don't naturally lean in that direction.

< Message edited by MistressZanthia -- 7/9/2004 1:48:22 AM >

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RE: BDSM Versus Abuse - 7/8/2004 4:46:10 PM

EStrict

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quote:

Pay attention: There is an incredible number of truly "abusive" males running around calling themselves "Doms". I'd hate to be a submissive woman in this day and age... good thing I don't naturally lean in that direction.

Zanthia, you had me until the end. I agree there are many abusive people passing themselves as dominant, but I don't see it all as male. There are just as many femdommes who are out there looking for that guy with no feeling of self worth to abuse physically, emotionally or financially.

As you said with your own relationship,,, you kept going back. Seeing that now, I wonder if you would agree that even though people may not conciously want to be abused, that in many circumstances they shoulder at least part of the responisibility for being in the situation? There was a different string where it was conteded that the person who stays or goes back bears no responsibility for the situation. I guess I always hold myself accountable for the choices I make, even if I made bad ones and allowed someone else to take advantage....

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RE: BDSM Versus Abuse - 7/9/2004 12:14:36 AM

topcat

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midear Sandy-

Very well said.

Thanks!

Stay warm,
Lawrence

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RE: BDSM Versus Abuse - 7/9/2004 2:12:16 AM

MistressZanthia

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Excuse me for not being "politically correct"... it's been my experience that most, keyword "most" of the abusers masquerading as Dominants, are male. Case in point, my ex-husband is one of them. A predatory creature if there ever was one, who masquerades as a genuinely nice guy.

I have long since accepted my responsibility for my actions/etc in my own abusive marriage. Would you like to hear them? Thought not. But I will say this, being in the situation, if you never have been in one as extreme as mine (he used 9 of the possible 10 tactics abusers faithfully use to control their partners) is no less a nightmare that's incredibly difficult to escape for many. It feels as if there's always a reason you have to stay or go back to the abuser, and intelligence doesn't factor into it.

Many brilliant women have been trapped in the cycle of abuse, myself included. I made the choice to stay, hoping, forever hoping that any number of interventional processes would fix him. Nothing ever did, he grew up in an extremely abusive home and history tends to repeat itself. *sigh*

I didn't, I grew up in a pretty normal household and had never met an abuser until this man, so I am a break from stereotypical norm that "woman who end up with abusers were abused in some way as children". Nothing in my makeup had prepared me for the possibility of being abused by the man I chose to spend my life with. And he hid his tendencies rather well for the first year. Nevertheless, I put myself there, obviously there was a lesson in it for me, and responsibility for making that choice was only one of them.

I didn't contend that the person who stays has no responsibility in the first place, in simply choosing to stay it negates that possibility from the start. And anyone can fall in love with an abuser, from any walk of life, educational level, etc... it makes not a shred of difference. Abuse is not selective as to gender, race, income, etc... it just isn't. Anyone is fair game.

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RE: BDSM Versus Abuse - 7/9/2004 9:19:26 AM

Estring

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Actually Zanthia, the politically correct thing to say IS that most predators or abusers are men. If you were to check the US crime statistics for domestic abuse, you might be quite surprised at the percentage of abused husbands or boyfriends. In reading your posts here on the message boards, it seems to me that you have based all your feelings on men on your experience with an abusive husband. That may be your experience, but it does not make it the truth.

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RE: BDSM Versus Abuse - 7/10/2004 2:19:46 PM

EStrict

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quote:

I have long since accepted my responsibility for my actions/etc in my own abusive marriage. Would you like to hear them? Thought not.

Sorry Zanthia, you thought wrong. I think it's great when people share things they have learned. I am always willing to admit the stupid things I have done and what I have learned from it, and if saves someone else some pain, then sharing was worth it (to me).

I do agree with Estring though, the statistics for abused husbands and boyfriends would shock many people. And I have noticed especially with verbal abuse that women are much worse. Being condescending, talking down to people, eating at other's self confidence, etc., was something that the girls in my high school taught great lessons about. Many woman never seem to outgrow that mean spiritedness, and it always turns my stomach (and often causes me to *talk in kind*) when I hear some woman downgrading her husband, boyfriend or children in an attempt to make her a *bigger woman*. I even have known more than one woman that has spent the night in jail for physically attacking her husband (or boyfriend) and the majority of the bar fights I have seen (or been in) have all involved women.

Honestly, about 65% of those I have tried to help to get out of abusive relationships have been in one with a woman. Just another example of how what one person sees as the *norm* isn't always what others do.....

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RE: BDSM Versus Abuse - 7/10/2004 3:19:21 PM

ThornBlood

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quote:

ORIGINAL: EStrict

Honestly, about 65% of those I have tried to help to get out of abusive relationships have been in one with a woman. Just another example of how what one person sees as the *norm* isn't always what others do.....

*Blinks* That high a number? Amazing.. I might have suspected 25 percent..

John

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RE: BDSM Versus Abuse - 7/10/2004 3:57:03 PM

EStrict

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Probably over all it is closer to the 25% you would have thought Sir,,, it is just ones that have come to me about advice over the past 15 years or so. People I have met online or in person that *sense* they can trust me enough to discuss their concerns or problems....

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RE: BDSM Versus Abuse - 7/28/2004 12:50:12 AM

uniqmyth

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Big difference between BDSM and abuse and i have first hand knowledge of both.

To me the the Dominant aspect of BDSM is more about caring, protecting, sheltering and guiding even though it also encompasses control. Abuse is the total opposite. Abuse is about intentionally inflicting harm on another physically, verbally or mentally to make the abuser feel better about himself and.or to please only himself with no regard to what damage is done to the other party.

of all the forms of abuse there are the one that usually causes the most damage in the long run is the verbal/mental abuse. physical injuries heal or kill you outright. mental scars can last forever unless you can find the strength to overcome them.

thank goodness i was able to do so but even though i've been able to forgive in a small way i will never forget.

those who can only control through fear are pitifully inadequate compared to Those than can control withcaring, honesty and honor.

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