quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

Why is it assumed that serving online has to do with masturbating (or whatever) on cam?In the 8 years I've been his, never has serving included that.  I have done that on cam but it was because of the intense sexual build up and arousal he put me through via email, IM and the phone. Jeez it was incredibly hot because I'm in no way an exhibitionist but it wasn't serving him.. so I'm confused on what people consider to be 'serving'. Does that mean serving in real time requires sex toys and cumming??

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

See, to me.......that is more of a topping, bottoming, type thing rather than Angel actually doing anything that served you.

I don't know, maybe my definition of service is too selfish. Maybe it really is the dominant being of service to the submissive in a broader picture. Because to me, if I am taking the time to create all of this activity and overseeing it, I am doing something for them. They are just sitting there waiting to be told what to do and following through. I get nothing out of it. My car isn't getting washed, my dinner isn't getting cooked. The submissive gets served by the dominant directing their life. The dominant is taking the time to listen and create a schedule, lessons, whatever for the submissive. The submissive just does what they should be doing for themselves already...and tadaaaa......that is service? What did the dominant get from that?

I can get the idea of a submissive paying for others to do something for a dominant. Just splitting hairs to say it isn't being a pro-domme because that's what some pro's take as payment. Services rather than actual money. I'm not knocking the concept, rather saying, "well hell, at least the dominant is getting something for their time and effort!"

Help, I am just not getting this.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantJenny

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

See, to me.......that is more of a topping, bottoming, type thing rather than Angel actually doing anything that served you.

I don't know, maybe my definition of service is too selfish. Maybe it really is the dominant being of service to the submissive in a broader picture. Because to me, if I am taking the time to create all of this activity and overseeing it, I am doing something for them. They are just sitting there waiting to be told what to do and following through. I get nothing out of it. My car isn't getting washed, my dinner isn't getting cooked. The submissive gets served by the dominant directing their life. The dominant is taking the time to listen and create a schedule, lessons, whatever for the submissive. The submissive just does what they should be doing for themselves already...and tadaaaa......that is service? What did the dominant get from that?

I can get the idea of a submissive paying for others to do something for a dominant. Just splitting hairs to say it isn't being a pro-domme because that's what some pro's take as payment. Services rather than actual money. I'm not knocking the concept, rather saying, "well hell, at least the dominant is getting something for their time and effort!"

Help, I am just not getting this.

Sometimes, the submissive isn't just doing what they should be doing for themselves already, but what they've been ordered to do whether they like it or not.
To some dominants, simply HAVING that level of control over another person equals getting something from it...domination, like submission, can be its own reward.

I think it's a bit more than splitting hairs...note that in the examples I gave, the submissive served as realistically as he could (by cleaning his own house, writing down an evocatative description of the massage he would have given if he could have, actually cooking himself, even if the food takes a few days to get there), that's all the relationship part of it that isn't (in my understanding) there (although some submissives may attempt this level of realism on their own, it's not reciprocal) in a pro relationship. Motivation matters, from both sides. He's not serving you just to get something he wants (looked at one way, all service could be seen as ultimately about getting the reward the submissive wants, whatever that is to individual, from the service itself to sexual rewards, etc.), he's serving you because he is submitting to you, because you have a relationship that is not BASED on a monetary exchange, money is merely being used as tool to facilitate the relationship. There are plenty of forms of service that could benefit the dominant that a submissive can do long distance as well...handling monetary matters, doing research, providing directions as someone else mentioned, etc.
There is a lack of immediacy of service to some degree, yes. Small things are hard to replicate. No one is saying it's the ideal, just that it can really work for people who can't, for whatever reason, have the ideal at the time.

Another way to look at it: would you consider a submissive who was unable, say, due to some physical injury or defect, to mow the lawn and hired someone else to do it instead was less of a submissive? The intent is the same, the benefit to you is the same, the method is just different.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

See, to me.......that is more of a topping, bottoming, type thing rather than Angel actually doing anything that served you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

My slavery to my Master exists whether I am in his presence or not.  His presence and impact in my life exists whether we are together physically or not, as well as my presence in his life.  Sometimes we will see each other all the time, and sometimes we have great gaps of time between visits.  Those gaps are difficult because I miss his physical-ness, but we deal.

First, to me my slavery is a service to him.  We don't define service as domestic service.  I serve him by belonging to him, and by obeying.  When together, I serve him my body to use.  When not together, I serve him my mind.  He can hire a maid, a gardner, whatever - to him, when I submit my mind, heart and body to him, I am serving him myself, and that is service.

Sure, I do tasks for him - I do office work remotely, I arrange his travel, I research things, I receive electronic dictation from him and type up documents for him.  When he wanted a new plasma LCD TV I spent a few days researching what the top 10 were and sent him a spreadsheet, comparing their specs, prices, ratings, and where he can see them side by side.

For us, dominance and submission is an expression of power and authority.  He enjoys knowing there is a girl who lives for him, who craves him, who will do anything for him, who spends her days loving him intensely and thinking of new ways to ease his mind.  He said it gives him peace of mind to think of me, and to know I am here at all times, at the ready, always reachable, and always wanting to do for him.

My ability to demonstrate my love and submission to him is not contingent on being in his physical presence.  Sure, that's ideal, but not always necessary.  Our presence in each others lives is more important to us than physical touch, even though physical touch is awesome and ideal.  Physical service is just one of many ways of expressing his dominance over me and my submission and love for him.  When we lack that, we focus on other creative ways to do so.

In the meantime, when he does want me to do something sexual for him and we are not in each other's physical company, we use our webcams.  I love "dancing" for him (if one can call it that) and doing obscene things on cam for him because he enjoys his private porn shows.  :)  And he looks so hot, sitting there, watching me.  I feed from his energy.  Since our cam program has video and voice, we talk to each other through it, and he can instruct me to do various obscenities for him as I do them.  He can hear my vocal reactions and my pleadings for release, etc.  While physical touch is far better, these are things I do for him when are together in person, anyway.  The difference is I don't get to smell and feel and taste him (big difference), but we still have the connection with each other, and that's what we're going after.

It works for some, not for others, just like all sorts of aspects to D/s and BDSM. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
Okay, we are looking at the concept of service differently. For ME, submission is not service. It is simply submitting.

I get that some people find a great deal of gratification out of online relationships. For ME, any sort of online submission is completely empty and without substance.

I need the person physically present, submissive and providing whatever sort of service they can. Participating in a conversation online or over the phone, is not service to ME. It is more of a friendly exchange.

I don't doubt that some people find gratification in the type of things we are discussing, nor am I saying it is not valid/real/true.......for THEM.

I just cannot comprehend it's validity for ME and my life. If someone wants to pay my current tax attorney and the ensuing IRS bill, that would be a great service! Yet if that person does not live with me and actively submit to me, I would see it along the same lines as a client doing something for a pro domme. Not a bad thing, just not my personal definition of service within a M/s relationship, especially if I was providing my domination "services" for them.

Example: on Monday you will get up at 6AM, go for a jog, shower, brush your teeth, wear the gray suit, white blouse, and black pumps. You will leave to work at 7:30AM after a breakfast of whole wheat toast, yogurt and fresh strawberries.
etc etc etc
Tonight you will pay your gas bill and your Mastercard bills in full. Then you will pay my masseuse and my Amex bill. Be in bed by 9PM

That is me giving my domination services for them paying my masseuse and Amex bill. Also, that is...........to ME........the same as pro domination. Rather like having a personal manager. Not my version of a M/s relationship.

However..........if someone following your orders 1000 miles away and paying your Amex bill for your time.......is what works for you, if that is all of the service you require, then it is your version of M/s and hense.........service.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

How exactly do you "serve" someone online who you have never met or are in physical proximity of?

What does that "service" consist of?

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

This isn't a smart ass question and I am not looking for a bunch of snarky comments.

I am really being serious and sincere here, because this is something I don't think I have ever managed to wrap my head around and never have attempted to experience.

How exactly do you "serve" someone online who you have never met or are in physical proximity of?

What does that "service" consist of?

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

My slavery to my Master exists whether I am in his presence or not.  His presence and impact in my life exists whether we are together physically or not, as well as my presence in his life.  Sometimes we will see each other all the time, and sometimes we have great gaps of time between visits.  Those gaps are difficult because I miss his physical-ness, but we deal.

First, to me my slavery is a service to him.  We don't define service as domestic service.  I serve him by belonging to him, and by obeying.  When together, I serve him my body to use.  When not together, I serve him my mind.  He can hire a maid, a gardner, whatever - to him, when I submit my mind, heart and body to him, I am serving him myself, and that is service.

Sure, I do tasks for him - I do office work remotely, I arrange his travel, I research things, I receive electronic dictation from him and type up documents for him.  When he wanted a new plasma LCD TV I spent a few days researching what the top 10 were and sent him a spreadsheet, comparing their specs, prices, ratings, and where he can see them side by side.

For us, dominance and submission is an expression of power and authority.  He enjoys knowing there is a girl who lives for him, who craves him, who will do anything for him, who spends her days loving him intensely and thinking of new ways to ease his mind.  He said it gives him peace of mind to think of me, and to know I am here at all times, at the ready, always reachable, and always wanting to do for him.

My ability to demonstrate my love and submission to him is not contingent on being in his physical presence.  Sure, that's ideal, but not always necessary.  Our presence in each others lives is more important to us than physical touch, even though physical touch is awesome and ideal.  Physical service is just one of many ways of expressing his dominance over me and my submission and love for him.  When we lack that, we focus on other creative ways to do so.

In the meantime, when he does want me to do something sexual for him and we are not in each other's physical company, we use our webcams.  I love "dancing" for him (if one can call it that) and doing obscene things on cam for him because he enjoys his private porn shows.  :)  And he looks so hot, sitting there, watching me.  I feed from his energy.  Since our cam program has video and voice, we talk to each other through it, and he can instruct me to do various obscenities for him as I do them.  He can hear my vocal reactions and my pleadings for release, etc.  While physical touch is far better, these are things I do for him when are together in person, anyway.  The difference is I don't get to smell and feel and taste him (big difference), but we still have the connection with each other, and that's what we're going after.

It works for some, not for others, just like all sorts of aspects to D/s and BDSM. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

Thanks for all the insightful replies.

I can understand the usage of the Internet as a tool between two people in a long distance relationship, but I suppose my question was more centered around two people who have never ever met.

I can't say I can completely understand or relate to someone who solely wants a metaphysical relationship. The word that comes to mind when I think of that is "fantasy", but there is some better labels for it in this thread.