RE: Gambia prez- to kill of every homosexual (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid



Message

Justme696 -> RE: Gambia prez- to kill of every homosexual (5/23/2008 2:07:48 AM)

I sure hope that It will come. But right now I can come with more examples in which it failt..then any one can come with good examples.
We didn't became what we are in 1 week too. And because we are different we can't expect other countries..in a worse situation...to becoem the same.
I am supprised that many people only get interested in a subject like this when it is in the news...while it is going on for ages. Rape is normal there, killing homosexuals seems normal etc etc.
It is terrible. But how many soldiers do we sent..and from where? Didn't we learn?
The only thing we can do is take the homosexuals away from there...to our countries. But Í am pretty sure we can get the others to think to leave them alone.


btw China does mainly weapons for metal deliveries. Only the rich get richer. The poor don't get anything.
Besides that..china gets plenty of material for nuclear purposes from overhere. And aslong our goverments are keep protecting their oil (and the dictators) then it won't change. They have double standards.

I have the wish too...for change. But some times realisme wins from wishfull thinking.



Justme696 -> RE: Gambia prez- to kill of every homosexual (5/23/2008 2:10:52 AM)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2007/08/31/do3102.xml
Why China is trying to colonise Africa

might be interesting



LadyEllen -> RE: Gambia prez- to kill of every homosexual (5/23/2008 2:18:53 AM)

When I say "law, order and stability" JM696, I dont necessarily mean any model we might regard as lawful or socially responsible.

Law is a written rule with a penalty attached for not obeying; North Korea has laws, with penalties including being used in chemical weapons experiments; "fun for the whole family".

Order is simply an absence of disobedience of the law. Stability is stability according to the ends of the masters.

I dont foresee any huge advances in Africa for Africans - simply its exploitation by new colonists, who - as bad as we were, will make us look like the most benign slavemasters on Earth.

E



Justme696 -> RE: Gambia prez- to kill of every homosexual (5/23/2008 2:20:41 AM)

quote:

When I say "law, order and stability" JM696, I dont necessarily mean any model we might regard as lawful or socially responsible.

What makes you think it will come, looking back at their history . Do you mean soon..or in time?



LadyEllen -> RE: Gambia prez- to kill of every homosexual (5/23/2008 2:31:16 AM)

Law, order and stability will come because the developing economies will need Africa for cheap labour, once the developing economies have made themselves wealthy enough that they can no longer manufacture cheaply.

But it will not be law, order and stability as we might conceive them. Rather it will be a model which best provides for profitable exploitation of Africans.

All of this of course, if the developing economies ever get anywhere with their development in a world where food, water, oil and other materials are in ever shorter supply and at ever higher cost.

E



RealityLicks -> RE: Gambia prez- to kill of every homosexual (5/23/2008 2:47:59 AM)

A few weeks ago, it was revealed that Austria has a number of people given to locking women in cellars and raping them for decades.  Everyone was shocked and outraged ...but I don't recall the thread where it was suggested that the whole continent of Europe was "rotten to the core".   Whether you can see it is highly doubtful but your viewpoint is racist.  Racism doesn't restrict itself simply to naked antipathy but is also apparent in your inability to differentiate information about Africa from rumours and myths.

There are countries which have been peaceful democracies ever since independence.  Broadly, Africa can be viewed as having three types of countries:  Stable fast-growing economic tigers, like Tanzania or Mozambique which are growing quickly from quite a low base following European exploitation - the ones you seldom hear about, then there are the energy-producers, cursed with oil and diamonds (which bring foreign companies a-calling) these tend to be challenged by governance issues but most of these  originate from foreign involvement in natural resources ...and then you have the countries which are problematic  - war, health issues.

When you characterise a whole continent with these simplistic and crude statements, you do a massive disservice to the millions who do right but nothing to affect that minority which does wrong.  But worse of all, you confuse your opinion with the truth.

This started with a very suspect claim of homophobia by one politician and yet you feel it justifies a stream of ignorant pontifications on the morality of a continent of millions. If Europeans are so much more enlightened, there isn't much sign of it in your posts. 




Justme696 -> RE: Gambia prez- to kill of every homosexual (5/23/2008 3:06:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

A few weeks ago, it was revealed that Austria has a number of people given to locking women in cellars and raping them for decades.  Everyone was shocked and outraged ...but I don't recall the thread where it was suggested that the whole continent of Europe was "rotten to the core".   Whether you can see it is highly doubtful but your viewpoint is racist.  Racism doesn't restrict itself simply to naked antipathy but is also apparent in your inability to differentiate information about Africa from rumours and myths.

There are countries which have been peaceful democracies ever since independence.  Broadly, Africa can be viewed as having three types of countries:  Stable fast-growing economic tigers, like Tanzania or Mozambique which are growing quickly from quite a low base following European exploitation - the ones you seldom hear about, then there are the energy-producers, cursed with oil and diamonds (which bring foreign companies a-calling) these tend to be challenged by governance issues but most of these  originate from foreign involvement in natural resources ...and then you have the countries which are problematic  - war, health issues.

When you characterise a whole continent with these simplistic and crude statements, you do a massive disservice to the millions who do right but nothing to affect that minority which does wrong.  But worse of all, you confuse your opinion with the truth.

This started with a very suspect claim of homophobia by one politician and yet you feel it justifies a stream of ignorant pontifications on the morality of a continent of millions. If Europeans are so much more enlightened, there isn't much sign of it in your posts. 




you asked me to know the real world...wel..if you compare Africa with Europe..then you are not in the real world either.
It can't be compared.
If you could chose beteween living in Etheopia or Germany for example. I am pretty sure which country you will choose.

Oh and I did mention in an other thread the Austria incident ;) . But that wasn't the first either. And agree. That is as rotten. But still the situation in Africa is very very very very bad.

http://thedaily.washington.edu/2008/1/8/A_history_of_violence/

Yes Mozambique has it pretty good now. As a neigbour to South africa (which has some serious racial/ethnical problems right now) you are pretty safe. Not so long ago...millions of people from Mozambique died.
Some countries do well, but Africa is a world of tribes..and they fight eachother. I don't want this...but it is fact.

quote:

yet you feel it justifies a stream of ignorant pontifications


facts justify a lott



lronitulstahp -> RE: Gambia prez- to kill of every homosexual (5/23/2008 3:12:29 AM)

quote:

 That continent is rotten to its core. Generation afther generation is raised in blood and weird thoughts. 

pssttt...i don't believe the entire continent of Africa holds a monopoly on "blood", or "weird thoughts".    But they are soooo fucking dark, so it can seem a bit menacing i'm sure.....
What they need is forced Christianity...wait! Too late.  What they need is for a European country to come in and show them how to run a decent government....wait! That experiment flopped too.  Funny how for centuries when left alone...the first great civilizations and some of the largest, kingdoms offering superior education(Timbuktu) were in Africa.  Sadly most of Africa never got over being raped...must be PTSD.  But apparently...being so rotten, Africa must've secretly been asking for it.

     edited to add...somebody beat me to it, i see.  i realized i never addressed the actual issue because i saw that post and saw red....of course homo-phobia is wrong...but so is any system that arbitrarily sets a group apart as superior to another.  On the basis of being white, Western, and European Justme, you assumed a level of superiority...your comment about Africa as much as you may think differently was as wrong as this Gambian president's.  i don't think it was your intention...but it was the result.



Justme696 -> RE: Gambia prez- to kill of every homosexual (5/23/2008 3:21:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp

quote:

 That continent is rotten to its core. Generation afther generation is raised in blood and weird thoughts. 

pssttt...i don't believe the entire continent of Africa holds a monopoly on "blood", or "weird thoughts".    But they are soooo fucking dark, so it can seem a bit menacing i'm sure.....
What they need is forced Christianity...wait! Too late.  What they need is for a European country to come in and show them how to run a decent government....wait! That experiment flopped too.  Funny how for centuries when left alone...the first great civilizations and some of the largest, kingdoms offering superior education(Timbuktu) were in Africa.  Sadly most of Africa never got over being raped...must be PTSD.  But apparently...being so rotten, Africa must've secretly been asking for it.



No one asks for this. But trible warfare (hutsies vs the tutsies / Ethiopia vs Eritrea) is internal and can't be blamed on the world.
Colonization..yes for sure....a shit thing..and does still continue. Our goverments should stop supporting the wrong peopel on one side and send help on the other side. DOuble faced policy sucks big time.
Lets hope the situation will change soon. But before they can change, they have to see the problems.


btw rape in africa and the world (think SOuth Africa is leading)
http://www.rape.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=875&Itemid=69

quote:

  On the basis of being white, Western, and European Justme, you assumed a level of superiority

(my first response was; then lets stop all white superior help to africa..because it might be mistaken as looking down. But the peopel over there don't deserve that))
So here comes the real response;
that depends on which lines of text you try to pick out and which you ingore to read.
I am sure not superior. It is always easyly said when you have an opinion as a white person about a non white culture, that it is "racistic" or a sign of "superiority". ( perhaps you should read what I say about Europe in the thread about Iraq)
And that..is painfull..because I show also facts. And not just blame people.
The links say enough. And there are so many more.

And no I don't do it on purpose.. but I find that suggestive that I did do something wrong.



lronitulstahp -> RE: Gambia prez- to kill of every homosexual (5/23/2008 3:29:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp

quote:

 That continent is rotten to its core. Generation afther generation is raised in blood and weird thoughts. 

pssttt...i don't believe the entire continent of Africa holds a monopoly on "blood", or "weird thoughts".    But they are soooo fucking dark, so it can seem a bit menacing i'm sure.....
  What they need is forced Christianity...wait! Too late.  What they need is for a European country to come in and show them how to run a decent government....wait! That experiment flopped too.  Funny how for centuries when left alone...the first great civilizations and some of the largest, kingdoms offering superior education(Timbuktu) were in Africa.  Sadly most of Africa never got over being raped...must be PTSD.  But apparently...being so rotten, Africa must've secretly been asking for it.



No one asks for this. But trible warfare (hutsies vs the tutsies / Ethiopia vs Eritrea) is internal and can't be blamed on the world.
Colonization..yes for sure....a shit thing..and does still continue. Our goverments should stop supporting the wrong peopel on one side and send help on the other side. DOuble faced policy sucks big time.
Lets hope the situation will change soon. But before they can change, they have to see the problems.


btw rape in africa and the world (think SOuth Africa is leading)
http://www.rape.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=875&Itemid=69


   So war and rape deem an entire continent rotten?? i assumed they happened everywhere...silly me.  Justme...Africa has it's problems.  i'm not in denial about that at all.  But there seems to be a defiate air of "better than" in your attitude towards Africa.  i have been to the Netherlands, and yes it's pleasant...but i'm pretty certain it isn't Utopia.  There are problems there as well as the rest of Europe.  But of course, Africa seemingly has a microscope over it when it's problems are discussed.  Be fair, that's all i ask.



Justme696 -> RE: Gambia prez- to kill of every homosexual (5/23/2008 3:36:49 AM)

You give opinions not facts.
Africa is compared to Europe...a mess. So is Iraq. But what has that to do with Africa and his problems?
IF you want to solve a problem then see it as it is. Don't put roses and perfume on it. It is reality. And if people see how bad it is there, then they actually might do a thing.
Making it all look better and saying..well ..it is not so bad..they have a few problems...then no one will ever donate again.

you can call me what you want... it is a damn shame soemthing like africa is allowed to happen...but I am not closing my eyes and make it look small.



LadyEllen -> RE: Gambia prez- to kill of every homosexual (5/23/2008 3:41:09 AM)

Perhaps one of our major problems in the west is this sense of superiority?

We judge some countries as basket cases and some as successes - according to the measurement of our civilisation and how well or badly these other countries meet what we see as success/failure.

It may just be that we are an anomaly, an abnormality of humanity and in fact the ones failing miserably to be human.

E



Justme696 -> RE: Gambia prez- to kill of every homosexual (5/23/2008 3:45:49 AM)

we are superior because we help? we are anomalies because we help? (or talk?)
Does it mean we have to let them be as they are?. So they can recieve respect for their way of living. Does that include the killing which started this thread?



LadyEllen -> RE: Gambia prez- to kill of every homosexual (5/23/2008 3:51:46 AM)

What I mean JM696, is that we are the unnatural ones - we are the ones far removed from normal human life with our industrialisation, monetary systems, trading systems et al.

We are more like locusts than humans - we believe success is a full belly with nothing to eat tomorrow unless we go find somewhere or something else to ravage.

And if we then impose that unnatural, unhealthy and self destructive model on others by way of the primacy it has brought us, by ravaging their more natural, healthy and self preserving model - as poor as it makes them in our eyes - we should not be surprised perhaps if the result is not to the liking of the social consience we have developed as a reaction of disgust at our own culture.

E



RealityLicks -> RE: Gambia prez- to kill of every homosexual (5/23/2008 3:54:39 AM)

I took a look at the link you have cited on rape in South Africa.  Its a fucking personal blog, man! It claimed that there are 500,000 rapes each year there.  When you work it out, that would mean one woman in 43 is raped - every single year.  That is quite simply, ridiculous and if it is typical of the "facts" you base your opinions on, ask yourself whether you would accept that source as credible in a European or American context.

Further, there is no tribe called the "hutsies", so I suspect the Tutsi have little to fear from them.

As regards aid: many countries in Africa take very little aid from the west - as low as 5-6% in the case of Kenya.  Please also take away the draconian economic penalties that come with the aid and you'll find many would be better off.   Many of Africa's woes are based around poverty and western interference clearly does not help eradicate it.  But if the pressure to open their markets was removed from African economies, many companies in the west would fail and jobs would be lost   - especially in Holland which exports printed textiles to many countries there and has -unethically - in my opinion - taken out global copyrights on many traditional African textile patterns, thereby depriving poor countries of much-needed foreign exchange.

Never mind fabric patterns, do you detect a pattern yet?

As far as a choice to live in Ethiopia is concerned, I've never been there but have luckily been invited to a neighbouring east African state and am considering fulfilling an ambition to see it.  I do know that over 20,000 British people permanently move to South Africa every year and that that number is climbing rapidly, so they must see something that you, in your wisdom, do not.

Always happy to talk about Africa but if you must reply, please, pretty please with a cherry on top, dump the rumours and arm yourself with a few facts.



lronitulstahp -> RE: Gambia prez- to kill of every homosexual (5/23/2008 4:02:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

we are superior because we help? we are anomalies because we help? (or talk?)
Does it mean we have to let them be as they are?. So they can recieve respect for their way of living. Does that include the killing which started this thread?

        Don't be smug...the opinion of one person does not a justification for killing make.  Of course, i don't agree with killing homosexuals.  i don't agree with your judge, jury, and executioner approach to African politics either.  As i see it, your opinions are as much based on fact, as mine.  Africa is rotten to the core. Africa is a rape victim....either way we use metaphor...simply because i called you out on your attitude, you assume mine is somehow less appropriate than yours.   Audacious, at best.  Perhaps i have some of my rotten Africanness coming to the surface...whatever. 
    Look, i gave you the benefit of the doubt...i figured from prior posts that you're definately not a racist...but what you fail to realize is that the root of European feeling of superiorty over Africa is based in large part to skin color.  It's historically fact...not roses or perfume. 
   damn i hate that i have to leave for work now....



RealityLicks -> RE: Gambia prez- to kill of every homosexual (5/23/2008 4:13:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

What I mean JM696, is that we are the unnatural ones - we are the ones far removed from normal human life with our industrialisation, monetary systems, trading systems et al.

We are more like locusts than humans - we believe success is a full belly with nothing to eat tomorrow unless we go find somewhere or something else to ravage.


That's just as racist - you've simply reversed it against white people.  BTW, just who is "we" in this case, am I an "us" or a "them"?  I don't see the benefit of swapping one race-based generalisation for another.  Moreover, what about Asia? Or South America? 

Put simply, the economic under-development of Africa is not by chance or evolutionary design; it is the result of conquest.  That conquest was rewritten in the history books to appear as an innate superiority in order to breed not just generations of serfs in the South but those glad to exploit them in the North.  Asia was allowed economic protection of its markets and so has developed beyond the serf category, Africa was and is denied such protection and therefore is blighted by poverty and all that comes with it.




LadyEllen -> RE: Gambia prez- to kill of every homosexual (5/23/2008 4:19:04 AM)

You miss the point RL - the point is whether industrial/ economic development such as we have pursued is actually success?

Nothing to do with ethnicity by the way - everything to do with our culture as it has evolved.

E



RealityLicks -> RE: Gambia prez- to kill of every homosexual (5/23/2008 4:23:23 AM)

Not an argument that probably fills the minds of those who fear that the sex trade in their country is a danger to their children.  These people are not about to skin up and search out their dvd of Koyaanisqatsi.



LadyEllen -> RE: Gambia prez- to kill of every homosexual (5/23/2008 4:51:10 AM)

So you miss the second point too RL? Did you read anything of my post?

The second point was, that we cannot expect happy results from filling our bellies at the expense of these people in Africa by moving our horde of locusts onto that continent.

I'm not pretending anything about the supposed nobility of subsistence farming - but questioning whether in fact such a way of life is what is natural and therefore to be judged success, rather than our exploit at all costs, go forth and have dominion over the Earth attitudes.

E




Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
2.929688E-02