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RE: Has "submissive become a misnomer? - 5/23/2008 6:36:16 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

quote:

This is simply what is bound to happen when ones uses stereotypes and cliches as shortcuts.


L,

Ahmen to that! any thoughts on solving the problem?

CP


Think about what it means, rather than what an audience seeking to dilute things to nothing desire it to?

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RE: Has "submissive become a misnomer? - 5/23/2008 6:38:38 PM   
MidMichCowboy


Posts: 665
Joined: 3/23/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

quote:

Noun Singular submissive
Plural submissives
submissive (plural submissives)
one who submits
To agree to another's will or to leave to another's discretion. Form of surrender.


MMC,

Was that from Grolier's or Webster?

CP


Wikipedia  :)

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RE: Has "submissive become a misnomer? - 5/23/2008 7:32:58 PM   
Quivver


Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline 		Like any lable it only applies when viewed in the light it's owner view's it in. 
Take Me for instance, I choose the lable submissive when I made my profile cause that kink of interaction is what drew me here.  Am I submissive?    To 98% of the Men calling themselves Dominant I'm sure I'm not! 
But oh Thank God for that 2%.   .........  Turn the word `submissive` to Dominant and there is just as many variations.  

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RE: Has "submissive become a misnomer? - 5/23/2008 7:48:51 PM   
slavegirljoy


Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

joy,

the West Coast is really short of English teachers!

CP

Are you offering me a job?  The East Coast may be a little short on them, as well.
 
Edited to Add:  By the way, your post should read, "The West Coast is really short on English teachers!"  Or, "There is a shortage of English teachers on the West Coast." 
 
joy
Owned servant of Master David

< Message edited by slavegirljoy -- 5/23/2008 7:53:52 PM >

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RE: Has "submissive become a misnomer? - 5/23/2008 8:21:46 PM   
derfrewop


Posts: 74
Joined: 5/10/2007
From: Vancouver
Status: offline
quote:

It seems that the word submissive has become such a often used word to describe a huge variety of mentalities as well as acts and conduct.


There is a reason this planet has thousands of languages and more dialects. Language is a living thing which is changed by every interaction with humans. What anything means in any language is merely the general consensus of its users at that time along with all of the the minority opinions on what the word means. Words like Good, Dude, Transit, Liberal  and thousands of others have all fundamentally changed meaning in my lifetime. That is the way of language.

Submissive is one of those words which is rapidly changing meaning. It probably will eventually have an agreed upon meaning but not just yet.


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RE: Has "submissive become a misnomer? - 5/24/2008 9:56:49 AM   
CelticPrince


Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:

But oh Thank God for that 2%


Quivver,

Well lets hope that that 2% is a bit larger than you think!
thanks for your thoughts.

CP

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RE: Has "submissive become a misnomer? - 5/24/2008 10:04:43 AM   
CelticPrince


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Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:

Edited to Add: By the way, your post should read, "The West Coast is really short on English teachers!" Or, "There is a shortage of English teachers on the West Coast." <http://www.collarchat.com/image/s4.gif>


joy, well thanks to the heaven for your proper uns of connectives. I never have been strong on semantics but i still don't get it..

there is a shortage on water in the West ????
there is a shortage on trees in the desert.???

on or of gets the point across.

CP

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RE: Has "submissive become a misnomer? - 5/24/2008 10:08:33 AM   
CelticPrince


Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:

There is a reason this planet has thousands of languages and more dialects. Language is a living thing which is changed by every interaction with humans. What anything means in any language is merely the general consensus of its users at that time along with all of the the minority opinions on what the word means. Words like Good, Dude, Transit, Liberal and thousands of others have all fundamentally changed meaning in my lifetime. That is the way of language.


derfrewop,

A valid point, but ours is a relatively small community that is not normally guided by the vworld characteristics.
thanks for your thoughts.

CP

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RE: Has "submissive become a misnomer? - 5/24/2008 1:54:06 PM   
SirJohnMandevill


Posts: 546
Joined: 11/10/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

This just floated into my head as I read a current thread about "D"'s sharing their "s"'s

It seems that the word submissive has become such a often used word to describe a huge variety of mentalities as well as acts and conduct.

recent threads = submissive to describe serice as in paperwork atc
submissive to describe serving "D"s other than their own "D"
submissive to describe slave responsibilities and acts
"always felt I was submissive"
"I am a submissive but not a doormat"

The list goes on but the point is made------- I think!

I candidly do not have an answer to the dilution of the word and historical intent; but i do wonder if anyone has any thoughts on the matter.

CP



My submissive lady and I don't worry about stuff like this. We define "submissive" for ourselves, and act accordingly. Make the term mean whatever you and he/she want!
 
Les (Purveyor of Fine, Handcrafted Kink)

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I am a fully eroticized being
No more neuroses
I found my strip naked soul soup
With the deviant ingredient
---The B-52s

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RE: Has "submissive become a misnomer? - 5/24/2008 1:55:14 PM   
lusciouslips19


Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline 		Can I use submissive to describe that I need someone to balance my checkbook?


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RE: Has "submissive become a misnomer? - 5/24/2008 9:38:42 PM   
hardbodysub


Posts: 1654
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline 		Well, since "orientation" choices in profiles are limited to dominant, slave, submissive, or switch, the word "submissive" has to cover the entire gamut from kinky play bottom to "twue D/s submissive". It's become a generic term, but I don't think that's such a terrible thing.

Some people would like the word "submissive" to be reserved for a more specific D/s type, but I think it's really too late for that. The cat's out of the bag, they'll just have to get over it. Personally, for broad generic terms I'd prefer "top" and "bottom" over "dominant" and "submissive", because a lot of people have such strong preconceived notions about D/s and what "submissive" should mean. As it is, people don't have much choice in terms, at least in profiles.



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RE: Has "submissive become a misnomer? - 5/25/2008 3:23:43 AM   
CelticPrince


Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Well, since "orientation" choices in profiles are limited to dominant, slave, submissive, or switch, the word "submissive" has to cover the entire gamut from kinky play bottom to "twue D/s submissive". It's become a generic term, but I don't think that's such a terrible thing.

Some people would like the word "submissive" to be reserved for a more specific D/s type, but I think it's really too late for that. The cat's out of the bag, they'll just have to get over it. Personally, for broad generic terms I'd prefer "top" and "bottom" over "dominant" and "submissive", because a lot of people have such strong preconceived notions about D/s and what "submissive" should mean. As it is, people don't have much choice in terms, at least in profiles.


hardbody,

Some good cogent thoughts there. Thanks for your input.

CP

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RE: Has "submissive become a misnomer? - 5/25/2008 4:35:30 AM   
kallisto


Posts: 1185
Status: offline 		This may be a little off track and if it is I apologize.  So many people need labels to identify with themselves until they look for a word that appears to match what they think they want/need.  I think society can toss around labels to the point where they do loose their meaning. 

I certainly don't walk around with a label stuck to my chest saying "I'm kallisto and I'm a submissive".   Nor do I have that on my resume or medical record.   However, it is a word  that when used properly defines me to a tee.  

It kind of reminds me of ways that society has pushed different meanings and mind sets out into the world trying to be politically correct.   We are afraid of hurting someone's feelings by correcting them on their misuse until we've allowed things to be defined in (someone else said) "generic" terms.  

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RE: Has "submissive become a misnomer? - 5/25/2008 10:30:06 AM   
CelticPrince


Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

This may be a little off track and if it is I apologize. So many people need labels to identify with themselves until they look for a word that appears to match what they think they want/need. I think society can toss around labels to the point where they do loose their meaning.

I certainly don't walk around with a label stuck to my chest saying "I'm kallisto and I'm a submissive". Nor do I have that on my resume or medical record. However, it is a word that when used properly defines me to a tee.

It kind of reminds me of ways that society has pushed different meanings and mind sets out into the world trying to be politically correct. We are afraid of hurting someone's feelings by correcting them on their misuse until we've allowed things to be defined in (someone else said) "generic" terms.


kallisto,

What youhave said generally aligns with the thought of the thread. It has gotten to the point that one cannot be sure what the other person truely means when it is stated "I am submissive"

Much of it is due to being too new in the lifestyle to understand the implications of the statement.

Thanks for your thoughts.

CP

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Has "submissive become a misnomer? - 5/25/2008 7:11:09 PM   
oblige


Posts: 38
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline 		Prinsexx, I have rarely posted here, but sometimes some one speaks so clearly and to the point in spite of all the re-hashing of topics, opinions, whine-fests  or seeing who is most eloquent at chewing up a newbie here.

I am compelled to speak to your post as a  learning appreciatve member of Collarme.  This below quoted portion of all that you said says so much of what I intuit and how I am in life.

For me, feeling, being and behaving submissive is in proportion to the qualities of a Dominant.  You said, and I "know" this deep in me  that much if not all of what D/s energy exchange is: "...for itself, essence, essentially one who has a sense of submitting in the presence of another who is felt to be dominat, one who has the sense of deferment, of deference and of wanting to serve another, to become the object of servitude, to become one who is the object of its owner's pleasure. This is a function of which the submissive themselves are aware and for which they therefore give their consent."

I have had the blessings of meeting and making friends with some D/s or M/s long time lifestyle couples and singles.  IMO, The term "submissive" can be a noun, verb, adjective depending on the user and their definitions and motives.

All I know is,, I am comfy as I am, submissive and not too much masochist so far.  I am aware that habits/preferences do shift in life. To me, especiallly rigid (IMO) definitions are not always the best way to proceed while making a new friend.

Prinsexx, thank you for the lovely way you defined  my nature. Thanks to all of you who post on this site. Hugs, ~oblige


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RE: Has "submissive become a misnomer? - 5/25/2008 7:31:41 PM   
LPslittleclip


Posts: 1163
Joined: 9/29/2007
Status: offline 		i have submitted my self to my M'Lady and i call my self submissive. my M'Lady calls herself a Dominant and W/we are happy. there is no one single way in life why should there be one single way to use a label like submissive.
happily collared by LadyPact

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RE: Has "submissive become a misnomer? - 5/25/2008 10:12:51 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		I think that is why I say I am A submissive.  I am not a submissive personality type.  I do not submit to all and sundry.  I am A submissive in this sort of stuff that we do, to men who inspire it from me.  I do not dilute the meaning by making that "A" qualification because for me this does not define me.  It is just a part of me.
When asked, I explain in just that way.  Men that don't get that are unlikely to be a match for me.  For that matter men who say they are dominant do not necessarily have to be in charge of all things at all times.
Most of the people I know have lives beyond bdsm, and personalities of various shades and colors.  I like that.
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

quote:

This may be a little off track and if it is I apologize. So many people need labels to identify with themselves until they look for a word that appears to match what they think they want/need. I think society can toss around labels to the point where they do loose their meaning.

I certainly don't walk around with a label stuck to my chest saying "I'm kallisto and I'm a submissive". Nor do I have that on my resume or medical record. However, it is a word that when used properly defines me to a tee.

It kind of reminds me of ways that society has pushed different meanings and mind sets out into the world trying to be politically correct. We are afraid of hurting someone's feelings by correcting them on their misuse until we've allowed things to be defined in (someone else said) "generic" terms.


kallisto,

What youhave said generally aligns with the thought of the thread. It has gotten to the point that one cannot be sure what the other person truely means when it is stated "I am submissive"

Much of it is due to being too new in the lifestyle to understand the implications of the statement.

Thanks for your thoughts.

CP


_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


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RE: Has "submissive become a misnomer? - 5/25/2008 10:58:40 PM   
Ananke


Posts: 6
Joined: 5/14/2008
Status: offline


Doesn't all of this really only add to the importance of negotiation and understanding in partnerships of any kind?

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RE: Has "submissive become a misnomer? - 5/26/2008 4:48:42 AM   
mistessA


Posts: 3
Joined: 5/25/2008
Status: offline 		To me the whole terminology of the Lifestyle has become convoluted. Most that call themselves "Doms" only want to hear a woman/man scream. Most that refer to themselves as "sub" are just selfish brats, they give what they want, when they want to give it. That is not sub, it is brat. And I don't like that most folks use "sub" "slave" interchangeablly. They are two very different beings. I think part of the issue came with the internet. Folks read so they think they know. Same mentality those with a college degree have. Because you hold a piece of paper, you know it all. Sorry but that isn't the way things work.

I was blessed, in that I was able to learn at the knees of a true Dom, very old school, very asian in His philosophies. He saw my true nature and taught me to be the best Dom I could be. I learned much from Him, and He knows He will always have my undying affection and gratitude.

The internet is a nice way to meet and greet, but it is a horrible medium for learning about the Lifestyle, too many wannabes out there that talk a good game, but have no reality to back up the words, so they rope the new folks in, and another generation of misinformed is born.

Peace be the Journey
A

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RE: Has "submissive become a misnomer? - 5/26/2008 8:08:11 AM   
CelticPrince


Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Doesn't all of this really only add to the importance of negotiation and understanding in partnerships of any kind?


Ananke,


well understanding is certainly part of the equation, but negotiation?? Sounds so business like. thanks for your thoughts.

CP

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Profile   Post #: 40
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