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Tolerence and Understanding - 10/23/2005 2:16:07 PM   
SirSix72


Posts: 347
Joined: 7/14/2005
Status: offline 		AMybe this thread can be a bit more on the lines of what I have been trying to say. From what I have gathered from the lifestyle that this is one of tolerence and understanding........what I do see is a majority of persons not being tolerant of exciting approaches to the lifestyle, take for instance the option of playing with others or living a poly life...I see many persons that places limits upon a Dominant, then these Dominants automatically give into these limits which I can understand on one hand and the other I cant........most seem to skate around the possibility that these limits are meant to be overcome....if this is truly about tolerance and understanding then how can you limit a relationship into the narrow tunnel that some are looking through? maybe there are more out there that can lend me an explanation

Master Six

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RE: Tolerence and Understanding - 10/23/2005 2:22:39 PM   
JustaTop


Posts: 511
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline 		It's very easy. For most,the word tolerant seems to mean.......

You like the same things I do, and are in agreement with me.

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RE: Tolerence and Understanding - 10/23/2005 2:33:11 PM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
I am not entirely sure what You are asking. But I think that tolerance should fall in all directions. From BDSM to Gor to poly to mono... but its obvious that people in wiitwd, be it all under the Bdsm or Gorean banner are human beings - and bring with them their bigotry. We all hold a form of intolerent behaviour. You, I... the people next door... No amount of 'BDSM tolerence' is going to alter that. Tolerence and abuse are individual ideas to realise uniquely. Whether we accept them and utilsie them or not, has nothing to do with the concepts of wiitwd.

Peace and Love

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...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

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RE: Tolerence and Understanding - 10/23/2005 4:45:04 PM   
FLButtSlut


Posts: 344
Joined: 3/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirSix72

AMybe this thread can be a bit more on the lines of what I have been trying to say. From what I have gathered from the lifestyle that this is one of tolerence and understanding........what I do see is a majority of persons not being tolerant of exciting approaches to the lifestyle, take for instance the option of playing with others or living a poly life...I see many persons that places limits upon a Dominant, then these Dominants automatically give into these limits which I can understand on one hand and the other I cant........most seem to skate around the possibility that these limits are meant to be overcome....if this is truly about tolerance and understanding then how can you limit a relationship into the narrow tunnel that some are looking through? maybe there are more out there that can lend me an explanation

Master Six



Unremarkably, all of the comments made are filled with a lack of tolerance or understanding of how others CHOOSE to live the lifestyle. Perhaps that would account for the confusion.

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RE: Tolerence and Understanding - 10/23/2005 4:50:21 PM   
SirSix72


Posts: 347
Joined: 7/14/2005
Status: offline 		just wondering if you have some sort of personal venditta against the subject matter.........isnt the first time ive seen this approach either



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RE: Tolerence and Understanding - 10/23/2005 5:03:50 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		Sure we are all human, but what seperates the men from the boys, the women from the girls and the bears from the cubs, is the willingness to listen to oposing views and to understand our own faults, then learn from our mistakes. In the final analysis we are capable of enjoying a liking/loving others who see things differently to what we do.

Example:

Sir Six may actually be a M&M fan, wear those shorts which come well below the knees and wear a baseball cap backwards (Three things which are not on my favourite list), but he and I have hit it off through our posts and developed some form of friendty and respectfull relationship.. What is more important? The visualls or the personal contact? he could wear his cap on backwards at the end of his hard-on for all I care, my attitude is, in Aussie terms, "He's my mate and you fuck with him you fuck with me". I figure y'all get my meaning. There are a few here who I take this line with; Angel, Paidrig, pink, motatail and Lam to name a few. BTW they are also the ones I'm likely to enjoy an indepth debate with as it is unlikley it would come of the rails due to insults and threats. As I said on another thread, we have some folks with some awsome professional qualifications and/or experience, and this just adds so much richness to the whole mix.





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Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

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RE: Tolerence and Understanding - 10/23/2005 5:23:19 PM   
LadyJulieAnn


Posts: 979
Joined: 6/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirSix72

AMybe this thread can be a bit more on the lines of what I have been trying to say. From what I have gathered from the lifestyle that this is one of tolerence and understanding.......


What about this lifestyle is supposed to make us "tolerant and understanding"? Why is this idea emphasized at times? Do some people feel we need to say this to make us feel better about what we do? Just curious.

Be well,
Julie

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RE: Tolerence and Understanding - 10/23/2005 5:24:16 PM   
SirSix72


Posts: 347
Joined: 7/14/2005
Status: offline 		Tal my friend IronBear,

I try not come across as my way is better than yours....I personally try and develop a better understanding of the dynamics of the relaionship of the leather folk and the Gorean as well.......I realize that some things I say maybe shakes up a few belief systems and the way things are or have been done.........im searching for answers and a debate without personal attacks which dosent happen all the time.......

Master Six

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RE: Tolerence and Understanding - 10/23/2005 5:31:25 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I try hard to be tolerant and understanding. But there are some kinks I will never understand. And there are some lifestyle choices I will never understand. But I always (try) to think, "hey if it works for that person, who am I to knock it, and would they really care about my opinion anyway?"

What I find more amusing is that fact that everyone seems to think the lifestyle is built on some almighty pillar of honesty. Some people are honest; some aren't, the lifestyle doesn't have a lot to do with that. It's people, not the lifestyle. Just my opinion.

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RE: Tolerence and Understanding - 10/23/2005 5:32:50 PM   
SirSix72


Posts: 347
Joined: 7/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyJulieAnn


What about this lifestyle is supposed to make us "tolerant and understanding"? Why is this idea emphasized at times? Do some people feel we need to say this to make us feel better about what we do? Just curious.

Be well,
Julie

This is the ponit im trying to get across....I see that this term is thrown around bythe leather folk but when the personal dynamic is introduced then there are lots that lose this tolerance of others within the relationship.....ie: I can be the only one thing: I understand the need that different people have but where did the tolerence and understanding go? right out the window? I know that at times I seem a bit rude but these are the facts I see. Im not making a biased opinion there are many out there besides myself whom see this and I thought this would be interesting to discuss among the masses here on this forum

Master Six

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RE: Tolerence and Understanding - 10/23/2005 5:39:05 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

I try hard to be tolerant and understanding. But there are some kinks I will never understand. And there are some lifestyle choices I will never understand. But I always (try) to think, "hey if it works for that person, who am I to knock it, and would they really care about my opinion anyway?"

What I find more amusing is that fact that everyone seems to think the lifestyle is built on some almighty pillar of honesty. Some people are honest; some aren't, the lifestyle doesn't have a lot to do with that. It's people, not the lifestyle. Just my opinion.


If it wasn't inappripriate and that bloody oversized duck pond wasn't in the way, I'd be seriously tempted to hug you for that post. I just wish more people in all areas of humanity used that as a guide.. More living less death and probably more bonking too.


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

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RE: Tolerence and Understanding - 10/23/2005 6:05:54 PM   
Belladonna82


Posts: 171
Joined: 7/14/2005
Status: offline 		Well first off...i want to make sure all understand that,NO Master doesnt make me say things on here and not all my opinions are His...but yes 99% we agree since after all i was trained by Him,but Master knew even when i begged for His collar...i was a very very opinionated person,which Master encourages lol He has always said if i didnt have a mind of my own when would He get the chance to help me be my best in which to serve Him lol ...now that i have said that on for the topic.

Ok on the topic,
Master is very tolerant of my doings....i know what Master will and will not allow but i do have the tendency to show my rear just for $hits and giggles.Master says i am a child at heart who needs punishing from time to time but normaly everything i do in which angers Him,He knows i do for fun..and i knew the consequences of doing so which i take unquestioningly since like i said i knew what would happen before my lil playfulness,but normaly when Master knows i was joking and being my playful little girl self and the reaction from Him is understanding and less severe if i had ment to be rebelous in a neg way...but thats me...Master knew i had the heart of a child....which is one thing Master says made him decide to grant me what i begged for which was to be owned and molded by him......Tolerence should be given to those who are learning...but if you act out to rebel...in my opinion...u deserve what ever Master/Mistress dishes out! A sub/slave knows whats she is getting before she begs for the collar....and that when the collar is placed....she should just shut up and do!...But again...my opinion alone :P

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RE: Tolerence and Understanding - 10/23/2005 6:23:47 PM   
ICGsteve


Posts: 202
Joined: 2/2/2005
Status: offline 		Tolerance and understanding yes, but not in the way assumed. It is not some intellectual understanding of the other person and their kinks and being OK with it. More a understanding that the soul wants what the soul wants and the mind will never competely "get it". More a tolorance of our own soulfullness (humanity) and that of the one we love.

In my opinion the stength of both tolerance and understanding weaken as does the relationship betwee the two. For this reason a person in the lifestyle would swear up and down that tolerance and understanding are both very important in BDSM because their intimate relationship has proven this yet maybe not be very much of either with a person that they know ony through a few posts here at CM.

(in reply to Belladonna82)
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RE: Tolerence and Understanding - 10/23/2005 8:23:31 PM   
wipmebeetme100


Posts: 198
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I see many persons that places limits upon a Dominant, then these Dominants automatically give into these limits which I can understand on one hand and the other I cant


My thoughts on this are really very simple. Being a submissive or a slave is an opportunity for growth. If i keep doing the things that i know i like, the things that i want to do....where is the growth?
At one time i considered permanent piercing to be a hard limit....until i entered into a TPE relationship. Now i am pierced.


Peace,
cathy

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RE: Tolerence and Understanding - 10/23/2005 9:09:35 PM   
FLButtSlut


Posts: 344
Joined: 3/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Belladonna82

Ok on the topic,
Master is very tolerant of my doings....i know what Master will and will not allow but i do have the tendency to show my rear just for $hits and giggles.Master says i am a child at heart who needs punishing from time to time but normaly everything i do in which angers Him,He knows i do for fun..and i knew the consequences of doing so which i take unquestioningly since like i said i knew what would happen before my lil playfulness,but normaly when Master knows i was joking and being my playful little girl self and the reaction from Him is understanding and less severe if i had ment to be rebelous in a neg way...but thats me...Master knew i had the heart of a child....which is one thing Master says made him decide to grant me what i begged for which was to be owned and molded by him......Tolerence should be given to those who are learning...but if you act out to rebel...in my opinion...u deserve what ever Master/Mistress dishes out! A sub/slave knows whats she is getting before she begs for the collar....and that when the collar is placed....she should just shut up and do!...But again...my opinion alone :P


I'm a bit confused...are we talking about tolerance WITHIN individual relationships or tolerance of the variables others choose to have within their relationships?

bella, I agree completely with your views of tolerance WITHIN the relationship, you say yourself, that your "misbehavior" is typically you "having fun" and your master being tolerant of you doing so. If two people in a relationship cannot be tolerant of each other's various personalities, I can't see why they should be together.

Tolerance of how others choose to live their relationships is completely different. I'm willing to bet that there are some who would think you should be beaten black and blue for your "playfulness" and that you master is failing you in not doing so. That is intolerance and ridiculous. He is YOUR master, you are HIS slave, and the situation works for you, no one should have the right to tell you otherwise.

I remember you mentioning something about people commenting on your branding. Personally, this is NOT something I would ever choose for myself, but as it was something both you and he chose to do, my general thought is "good for you". The only thing I wouldn't be able to "tolerate" about it would be watching. But that is because I don't think my stomach could handle such a thing.

That is the kind of "intolerance" I DO NOT understand. While there are some things that are simply wrong, like the basic involving children or enslaving someone against their will, we should all be accepting of how others CHOOSE to live their lives whether it is "our thing" or not. It is attempting to claim that how others choose to live is "WRONG" where tolerance is lacking.

As for the understanding, well that just isn't going to happen. I will NEVER understand why anyone would WANT to eat shit, and I would never watch it or partake in it, but I certainly don't tell other people they SHOULDN'T. Some things we are never going to "understand", but as long as they do not directly effect our own lives, we should all be tolerant of the other's decision.

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RE: Tolerence and Understanding - 10/23/2005 9:12:50 PM   
starshineowned


Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Greetings..~smiles~

........what I do see is a majority of persons not being tolerant of exciting approaches to the lifestyle, take for instance the option of playing with others or living a poly life...I see many persons that places limits upon a Dominant, then these Dominants automatically give into these limits which I can understand on one hand and the other I cant........most seem to skate around the possibility that these limits are meant to be overcome....if this is truly about tolerance and understanding then how can you limit a relationship into the narrow tunnel that some are looking through?

Master SirSix..alot of these narrowed down views, limits of what the females list are often a reflection of their own moral beliefs and upbringing as well as their own past experiences that have left them already knowing things they can handle and things they can not. It is really hard to try and post that in there all the time "this is hard limit because I tried this before and it was the most horrible experience of my life" etc.

Alot of the time once a relationship starts blooming and trust is forged, these often do change completely or at the very least are being given another trial at.

On the whole though if one really looks..alot of the limits are frequent..no scat, no blood, no kids, no animals, no poly. These really are not unreasonable limits.

I don't see these things as placing undo stress on the Dominant. I would expect that the Dominants have their lists of limits as well.

Alot of Dominants Will not share their property. That is a limit for them, but there are alot of slaves out there that accept being shared as common place and normal for a slave.

These things really do go both ways.

starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin

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RE: Tolerence and Understanding - 10/23/2005 9:35:58 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		I'm not really sure where you are going with this thread, so will limit my comments to a small portion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirSix72
I see many persons that places limits upon a Dominant, then these Dominants automatically give into these limits which I can understand on one hand and the other I cant........most seem to skate around the possibility that these limits are meant to be overcome....if this is truly about tolerance and understanding then how can you limit a relationship into the narrow tunnel that some are looking through?


There are many different reasons that people have limits, and I honestly think you are perhaps looking at it from a very narrow point of view when you imply that these limits are being placed upon a dominant."

I have limits, and to me they are hard limits. If you break one, that will end up being a bad thing. This isn't something I just decided one day ... these are things that are part of me, for good reason. I don't force anyone to be with me, I don't want help overcoming my problems, and anyone that thinks that limits them, is free to walk away.

To use an analogy ... if you wanted to date a girl that was six foot tall, and asked me out ... it would be silly for you to say I'm somehow limiting you, because I'm only five foot four.

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RE: Tolerence and Understanding - 10/23/2005 9:43:17 PM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FLButtSlut

As for the understanding, well that just isn't going to happen. I will NEVER understand why anyone would WANT to eat shit, and I would never watch it or partake in it, but I certainly don't tell other people they SHOULDN'T. Some things we are never going to "understand", but as long as they do not directly effect our own lives, we should all be tolerant of the other's decision.



I think you've done a great job of boiling this down to its essence. And I think the reaction to copraphagia is a good illustration since for most of us it's a [shudder]. I don't know if you've seen my posts on that topic, but it's certainly not my kink. None the less I try to give people the best information I have about the risks (I certainly can't talk about the rewards, but that's for them.) in as nonjudgemental a way as possible.

As I've said before, YKIOK is not holy writ, but it's been a good way for me to live my life.


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RE: Tolerence and Understanding - 10/23/2005 9:54:26 PM   
greenie


Posts: 579
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline 		If we are discussing tolerance and understanding within a relationship then i would call it COMPROMISE. No relationship involves 2 perfect people, be it those in wiitwd or vanilla. There are always going to be things that one person in a relationship does or needs, or something about them that the other person doesn't necessarily do, need, or completely agree with but if the relationship works it's not necessarily that they "tolerate" it and they may not even "understand" it but they care enough to compromise on it. If some compromises aren't made then i don't know how any relationship can work. Now, i understand that in an M/s relationship the Master is the Master and He has the power to veto anything He so chooses to but even most Masters will admit that there are some behaviors that they allow because they aren't deal breakers for them, just as there are subs/slaves who cease certain behaviors because the Master says they must and they aren't deal breakers for the sub.
Now why do i feel that i just rattled on? i'm not even sure i understood what it was that i just said, but there it is for anyone to disect should they choose to do so.

_____________________________

"According to a new survey, women say they feel more comfortable undressing in front of men than they do undressing in front of other women. They say that women are too judgmental, where, of course, men are just grateful."
-- Robert DE Niro

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RE: Tolerence and Understanding - 10/23/2005 10:04:46 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		As a matter of clarification, When I refer to tolerance and especially in this thread, I am refering to being tolerant about peoples choices in partners, lifestyle, opinions and religion etc... I have and will defend the right for people to have those choices unimpeded and advocate tolerance in these and similar areas. Personal tolerance in a relationship including limits etc is a personal matter and something which in the main none of us have anyright to interfere with or criticise.


De Oppresso Libra

Viva l'Mercinare! Viva l'Chevelare! Viva l'Mort!




_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

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