MALE + NONOP/PREOP M2F TG SAME SEX MARRIAGE IN CALIFORNIA

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MALE + NONOP/PREOP M2F TG SAME SEX MARRIAGE IN CALIFORNIA - 5/23/2008 8:06:05 PM

randimichelle

Posts: 14
Joined: 8/5/2005
Status: offline

I would like to start a discussion here, hopefully getting the Masters as well as other transgendered girls like me involved in the discussion.

I am currently a nonop T-girl living in California and I am watching with great interest all of the publicity being given to the fact that the California Supreme Court has overturned the law prohibiting same sex marriages. I suspect that this may be overturned by a referendum in the fall but one never knows.

As a submissive nonop T-girl, I am wondering how this might affect me. The scenario I envision is that I finally meet a dominant Master who is sincere in collaring me an making me his wife/slave. I am totally serious about this; this is not a game for me. At some point he decides that he wants to legalize our domestic relationship by getting married while maintaining a Master/slave relationship at the same time.

How I read the current situation, it would now be possible to be married, that my transgender status would not factor into the realtionship in any way. In the eyes of the state we are simply two males who have decided to get married, that i would take his last name as a sign of respect and would accept the traditional role of a wife in the marriage. It would recognize the fact that i would be living and presenting myself as a woman, as his wife, and it would not be an issue.

How do others read the situation, Masters as well as submissive male-to-female transgendered males? Comments from all quarters will be welcomed.

Randi Michelle Truesdell

Post #: 1

RE: MALE + NONOP/PREOP M2F TG SAME SEX MARRIAGE IN CALI... - 5/23/2008 8:09:05 PM

SirMIkeSD

Posts: 613
Joined: 3/16/2007
From: San Diego, Ca
Status: offline

I would not get married as I am poly and marrying one boy would not be fair to the other.

Mike

(in reply to randimichelle)

Post #: 2

RE: MALE + NONOP/PREOP M2F TG SAME SEX MARRIAGE IN CALI... - 5/23/2008 8:26:34 PM

Asherdelampyr

Posts: 9556
Joined: 11/14/2006
From: The Desert
Status: offline

In theory it sounds good, of course you are dealing with the government, so thats bound to fuck it up somehow

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(in reply to SirMIkeSD)

Post #: 3

RE: MALE + NONOP/PREOP M2F TG SAME SEX MARRIAGE IN CALI... - 5/23/2008 10:03:28 PM

HCWT1

Posts: 161
Joined: 7/7/2005
Status: offline

In reading your words it makes me feel real lucky.Down here(New Zealand)it's legal for tv/tg to marry.Either by civil union,or if the t/g is post op and has changed their birth certificate,strait marrage.My thoughts are with you for the future.

(in reply to randimichelle)

Post #: 4

RE: MALE + NONOP/PREOP M2F TG SAME SEX MARRIAGE IN CALI... - 5/23/2008 10:42:22 PM

SubBlueEyeBBW

Posts: 15
Joined: 4/8/2008
Status: offline

All i can say is i hope the law stayes overturned but im not holding my breath, The anti same sex marriage folks are already screaming they are going to get it reversed again. As the law stands now, i believe you and your partner are fully within your rights to be married. i feel sorry for all those that came here ( San Francisco) and got married and then got the letter saying the marriage was null and void, and now they are legally married again only to have to wait and see if the law sticks. i have friends that got married and were so happy that they were legally recognized only to find out after that they werent. Some day hopefully society will change its views but thats just my humble wish

_____________________________

There's something about
Being thrown down and taken
Not against your will
For your will is to be there
To please, to submit, to offer, to relinquish
And you cry out for breath, for more, for Him
And you know you are home

(in reply to HCWT1)

Post #: 5

RE: MALE + NONOP/PREOP M2F TG SAME SEX MARRIAGE IN CALI... - 5/23/2008 10:55:10 PM

randimichelle

Posts: 14
Joined: 8/5/2005
Status: offline

i don't have a partner at this time but think that now is a great time to be in a relationship with a Master who would have me as his wife. i am fearful that the law will be overturned and then the opportunity will be gone. The big problem is that i have found so few dominant men that really are serious about such a situation. Many talk the talk but few are willing to walk the walk, as i am. i have met a few men through collarme but none were suitable in my eyes to be a long term partner.

randi

(in reply to SubBlueEyeBBW)

Post #: 6

RE: MALE + NONOP/PREOP M2F TG SAME SEX MARRIAGE IN CALI... - 5/23/2008 11:15:43 PM

NumberSix

Posts: 1378
Joined: 12/30/2006
Status: offline

Seriously? So thats the big fucking deal that makes you a cocksucker, some state marrage certufucate? What is provided you , or denied you that is in any respect a grab me?

Whle yo and I have rights, we dont have musts

_____________________________

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"The new Number Two."
"Who is Number One?"
"You are Number Six.".
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Be seeing you...

(in reply to randimichelle)

Post #: 7

RE: MALE + NONOP/PREOP M2F TG SAME SEX MARRIAGE IN CALI... - 5/24/2008 3:30:59 AM

RumpusParable

Posts: 1923
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: NYC now!
Status: offline

English translation?

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I generally use fast-reply. If directing my post at someone specific I will indicate so.

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(in reply to NumberSix)

Post #: 8

RE: MALE + NONOP/PREOP M2F TG SAME SEX MARRIAGE IN CALI... - 5/24/2008 3:56:06 AM

softandshy

Posts: 297
Joined: 5/10/2005
Status: offline

As i understand the ruling, yes, at the moment you could get married to your partner in CA. ~smiles~ Unfortunately, i too doubt whether that will last for long.

i do not have any idea what the rules are for marriage with regard to transgendered people in the rest of the United States. i do have a transgendered friend who was married before she went through the process. That marriage still stands legally (i believe) but it began as a heterosexual marriage, and the couple's benefits and such are still provided by a job she began well before the change.

_____________________________

Happy "Swamp Thing"

(in reply to RumpusParable)

Post #: 9

RE: MALE + NONOP/PREOP M2F TG SAME SEX MARRIAGE IN CALI... - 5/24/2008 5:47:11 AM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

Is there any language in that law or any others that defines gender for legal putposes?

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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

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(in reply to softandshy)

Post #: 10

RE: MALE + NONOP/PREOP M2F TG SAME SEX MARRIAGE IN CALI... - 5/24/2008 8:41:38 AM

Maya2001

Posts: 1656
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Woodstock ONT,CANADA
Status: offline

move to Canada and you won't have to deal with all the BS and your marriage would be recognized as equal to that of any hetro married couple 100% not piecemeal benefits because of conflicts between state and federal level and it is recognized throughout the country for example if the couple get married in BC and move to Ontario later they are still legally entitled to all benefits, even if you are just travelling thru a province... unlike in the US where it isn't.. for example if the CA law allows marriage and you marry there you may be entitled there for health benefits, but travel to NY thru a state the refuses to acknowledge and you become sick or injured and suddenly you spouses medical insurance for you in no longer recognized, or you move top another state and your marriage is no longer recognized ( which is in direct violatation of the 14th ammendent of the constitution ..the same sex marriage is not equal to that of a hetro union "it forbids states from denying any person "life, liberty or property, without due process of law" or to "deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of its laws.”)

also many of the provinces here cover the cost of gender surgeries http://news.yahoo.com/s/po/20080522/co_po/ontariotoresumecoveringgendersurgery

quote:

i do not have any idea what the rules are for marriage with regard to transgendered people in the rest of the United States. i do have a transgendered friend who was married before she went through the process. That marriage still stands legally (i believe) but it began as a heterosexual marriage, and the couple's benefits and such are still provided by a job she began well before the change.

And likely if your friend moved out of state or possibly change jobs and needed a different insurer they would find their marriage challenged as stated here
In the United States, transsexual and intersexual marriages typically run into the complications detailed above. As definitions and enforcement of marriage is defined by the state, these complications will vary from state to state. In Massachusetts no problem should arise in seeking to get a marriage, or enforcing that marriage, however marriage in states that have more prohibitive definitions, any marriage with a transsexual could face challenge in a court based on any number of criteria. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_marriage

_____________________________

Lead me not into temptation - I can find the way myself

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 11

RE: MALE + NONOP/PREOP M2F TG SAME SEX MARRIAGE IN CALI... - 5/24/2008 9:40:21 AM

antipode

Posts: 1787
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline

This is so complicated, I get a headache. You want to get married, get married. You want the surgery, get the surgery. You want to wear a dress, wear a dress. Keep life simple and manageable. Getting married is something you do so you can take care of inheritances and kids, it is something you do so you can get divorced, living together is something you do in a relationship. I doubt anybody out there, except for you, gives a hoot whether you have a marriage license or not.

(in reply to randimichelle)

Post #: 12

RE: MALE + NONOP/PREOP M2F TG SAME SEX MARRIAGE IN CALI... - 5/24/2008 10:50:53 AM

faerytattoodgirl

Posts: 5824
Status: offline

who cares about marriage...all you need to be is loved.

_____________________________

I did not reply to your cmail.

I am flawed.

Imperfect.

MUST SPANK!!!

SPAAAAAAAANK!!!

(in reply to antipode)

Post #: 13

RE: MALE + NONOP/PREOP M2F TG SAME SEX MARRIAGE IN CALI... - 5/24/2008 11:31:33 AM

Maya2001

Posts: 1656
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Woodstock ONT,CANADA
Status: offline

Marriage is not just about proof of devotion it can be a way of helping to take care of a partner now and later if you happen to pass away first, for example it may provide medical and drug benefits, a pension, allowing the spouse rights to make decisions for you in the event you become mentally/physically incapacitated or making sure they are entitled legally to shared property/or the estate once the other partners passes away so it does not end up in other family members hands leaving the one you love destitute, custody of children etc. That is why Canada's Supreme court ruling on allowing and treating same sex marriages the same an hetero marriages became so important...it is not so much about the marriage itself but that it guarantees the same legal rights and benefits that heterosexual married couples have.

_____________________________

Lead me not into temptation - I can find the way myself

(in reply to faerytattoodgirl)

Post #: 14

RE: MALE + NONOP/PREOP M2F TG SAME SEX MARRIAGE IN CALI... - 5/25/2008 2:00:54 AM

sirguym

Posts: 318
Joined: 8/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: randimichelle

I would like to start a discussion here, hopefully getting the Masters as well as other transgendered girls like me involved in the discussion.

I am currently a nonop T-girl living in California and I am watching with great interest all of the publicity being given to the fact that the California Supreme Court has overturned the law prohibiting same sex marriages. I suspect that this may be overturned by a referendum in the fall but one never knows.

As a submissive nonop T-girl, I am wondering how this might affect me. The scenario I envision is that I finally meet a dominant Master who is sincere in collaring me an making me his wife/slave. I am totally serious about this; this is not a game for me. At some point he decides that he wants to legalize our domestic relationship by getting married while maintaining a Master/slave relationship at the same time.

How I read the current situation, it would now be possible to be married, that my transgender status would not factor into the realtionship in any way. In the eyes of the state we are simply two males who have decided to get married, that i would take his last name as a sign of respect and would accept the traditional role of a wife in the marriage. It would recognize the fact that i would be living and presenting myself as a woman, as his wife, and it would not be an issue.

How do others read the situation, Masters as well as submissive male-to-female transgendered males? Comments from all quarters will be welcomed.

Randi Michelle Truesdell

Often very much desired by girls like you, often seen in stories; but in practise it is not achieved very often. Sometimes it does not last long - when it does it usually morphs into something more like a traditional marriage than a Master/slave relationship: but maybe that's no bad thing.

Good luck anyway, I hope you achieve what you seek; just ensure that you enjoy every step of the way that you possibly can!

(in reply to randimichelle)

Post #: 15

RE: MALE + NONOP/PREOP M2F TG SAME SEX MARRIAGE IN CALI... - 5/25/2008 8:08:26 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

How do others read the situation, Masters as well as submissive male-to-female transgendered males?

Randi,
I think you would have been received a better response putting his question and your situation in the 'General Discussion' section.

I don't think the government should be involved in a person's relationship decisions in any way. On this issues, as a 'person' I'm in favor of a person's 'right' to be married to anyone they want. As a pragmatist, I don't agree with this law. It didn't provide 'equal rights', you already had those. You had the ability to marry equal to everyone else. You wanted/needed more rights - the right to marry a person of the same sex. Again - on principle, is should not be a government issue. But what of the ability to marry more than one person? A dog? A doll? A plant? A stuffed animal? People claim deep emotional ties, and desires to these too; albeit not at the same level, and obviously not the same acceptance level as currently enjoyed by same sex partners. However - why should one sexual relationship preference/practice be legitimized over any other? Personally, I don't think they should, but it brings us to the practical side of the equation.

When it comes to issues like this, often it comes down to money. Its no different in this instance. Now I happen to be married now and have a partner declared for my insurance. However, if I didn't, and instead I had a close friend who didn't have insurance, had a very bad illness, and happened to be of the same sex - I'd 'marry' him for access to my benefits. That's one of the main reason why many industries, and the government for that matter, opposes the idea. Morality is a tool used to manipulated the masses on both sides of the issue, as well as a moving target; cost is straight forward and money is always a consideration. Now in CA same sex partners are already legislated into law; nationally it is another story. Which brings us to the impact of the Federal Government.

They do not recognize the union. That means, although you can file joint returns on your CA State Taxes, you won't be able to declare 'married' as your status on the Fed return. Well, of course you can, but it would be subject to audit. More than likely - that's how this issue will get to the Supreme Court. Money issues such as wills, retirement benefits, and even mundane corporate policies come into play. For instance, I often relate that one of the reasons I decided to marry beth was that while traveling to Seattle adding her to the car rental agreement cost me $25. As my wife - she would have been added without cost. Will Washington State recognize your CA marriage? Will any other?

I'm afraid the CA law gives you 1/2 a victory. The reality is not much has really changed. Your trans-gender status shouldn't mean anything to the government or anyone else. The knowledge should be yours to share with whoever you care to share it.

Perhaps more information than your wanted huh?

The difficulty with trying to create fair laws is the reality that 'fair' is a concept of perspective. Better to have no law, and the least government as possible.

My best wishes to you and your happiness. Your sincerity and knowledge of self comes through in your post. Stay true to yourself. I hope you find a person who can appreciate you. Good luck!

(in reply to randimichelle)

Post #: 16

RE: MALE + NONOP/PREOP M2F TG SAME SEX MARRIAGE IN CALI... - 5/25/2008 6:08:42 PM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: faerytattoodgirl

who cares about marriage...all you need to be is loved.

No, there are things that go past being loved.

I'm married to Master because he wanted to make sure that I have every protection of the law. That I would never be turned out at the will of his family. A Dominat friend of ours died young. Age 46 of a heart attack. He lived with his submissive/fiance. After the funeral, his family went through the house removing anything they thought to have belonged to the D, whether it actually did or not. Because his family was the co-signer on their home, they also had her removed from the home. They claimed the cars, the furnishings even the photo albums. She not only lost the love of her life, she lost her home and peace of mind, as well. So, no....love isn't the same as legal protection.

To the OP: currently you would be able to marry. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it stays that way. I've never figured out why people think that someone else marriage defines everyone elses.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to faerytattoodgirl)

Post #: 17

RE: MALE + NONOP/PREOP M2F TG SAME SEX MARRIAGE IN CALI... - 5/25/2008 7:50:58 PM

rawtape

Posts: 105
Joined: 10/31/2006
Status: offline

Randi,

As I read it, you should be able to get married in CA. Yes, there will be much ranting by homophobes; but if you look at opinion polls/surveys of the the younger generation, you will see that the country seems poised to become more and more liberal with time.

I do have a comment though: a number of TG women I know have been able to change their official identity (on IDs, passports, drivers' licenses etc.) to female. I don't know what this entails, but you should certainly be able to find out from LGBT or TG support organizations. And that might help you out in the long run.

Good luck.

- R

(in reply to OsideGirl)

Post #: 18

RE: MALE + NONOP/PREOP M2F TG SAME SEX MARRIAGE IN CALI... - 5/25/2008 8:00:53 PM

faerytattoodgirl

Posts: 5824
Status: offline

quote:

I know have been able to change their official identity

after sexual reassignment surgery..yes...

before...well if your rich and can pay off the gov't thru lawyers...then ya. but not many tg's can even afford surgery..in canada...only after surgery.

_____________________________

I did not reply to your cmail.

I am flawed.

Imperfect.

MUST SPANK!!!

SPAAAAAAAANK!!!

(in reply to rawtape)

Post #: 19

RE: MALE + NONOP/PREOP M2F TG SAME SEX MARRIAGE IN CALI... - 6/9/2008 7:58:55 AM

randimichelle

Posts: 14
Joined: 8/5/2005
Status: offline

Thanks to everyone for all the advice. I'm still hoping to connect with a couple where the dominant is a traditional male and the submissive is a feminine male where they are discussing the option or opportunity of getting married. If you post a response here also E-mail me directly at my collarme account or at randimichelle (at) aol dot com. i am just about to meet someone local from collarme after a long series of E-mail exchanges and hope, if there is good chemistry between us, to discuss this opportunity with him.

(in reply to faerytattoodgirl)

Post #: 20

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