The Dance

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MladyHathor -> The Dance (5/24/2008 5:54:38 AM)
*One of the things I often see is " I am an alpha male"----ok, and that means what? chest beating at the full moon?* What I often experience from these alpha males cum (koom not come you perverts)---is the inability to draw the line between submisison and the beat the chest, I am male and know all syndrome---example--indulge Me if you will: *I am a professional with a well respected Fortune 25 company--I am a senior in my position--I sure as hell didnt get here by sleeping my way---hence:* *"yes I am working on a presentation this evening"..." oh let me look at it and maybe I can help make it better"* *" I am putting in flag stones in the back yard"..." oh you should use xxxx as it works better, send me the design and i will help you do it better"* *"I am having the hall floor replaced"..."oh well you need to do this this and this"* *never once did I ask for advice, unsolicited advice to Me makes My blood turn blue---* I even chatted with a sub once who had to ride to the rescue of his distressed Mistress, he was making all the plans, telling Her what to do, where She will go etc etc etc. I asked him, where is the slave in this? where are Her decisions, "oh isn't service doing all one can?" So here is a chance to get some things on the table----IMHO only--submission does not mean doormat, it also does not mean you need to ride to My rescue in all things unless I ask---and don't offer Me advice if I don't ask--what the hell makes you think I CAN'T do it better?? This is not a rant but I hope an attempt to help the ahem "alpha males" realize where that starts and stops. Granted all D/s relationships are different, however, maybe we can give the guys some sort if starter roadmap that doesn't see then crash and burn out of the gate?

HardToTame -> RE: The Dance (5/24/2008 5:59:09 AM)
you know what I reckon mate? I reckon if you'd typed that with out the bold, and maybe in black, and used a few stronger words you'd of had more effect. Tell you what, I'll have a look at it and show you where you can fix it [:D]

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: The Dance (5/24/2008 12:15:34 PM)
Perhaps it's more just a male issue- males tend to be problem solvers, they want to DO something to make it better, that's how they work. Females are much more simply sharing information to reach a common understanding. Extremely stereotypical of course, but often true, especially when dealing with a male dom who feels it's their responsibility to "make it better." And a side note- alpha males don't have to announce their status. The ones who literally feel the need to announce it are generally the least likely candidates when things go down.

Bound2One -> RE: The Dance (5/24/2008 1:14:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross Perhaps it's more just a male issue- males tend to be problem solvers, they want to DO something to make it better, that's how they work. Females are much more simply sharing information to reach a common understanding. I agree with you, LA. Generally speaking, I think men feel a need to make things better and feel that listening isn't quite good enough - they need action to feel they've contributed. Definitely stereotypical, but it's what I've noticed in life.

Constrictor1 -> RE: The Dance (5/24/2008 1:20:27 PM)
Hi MLadyHathor, Self declaration means absolutely nothing to me. Direct observation is my validation tool. I can declare that I am 6'4' macho Tom Cruise look alike. Direct observation does not confirm that. I prefer to see deeds not lip service. Constrictor1

Wheldrake -> RE: The Dance (5/24/2008 1:39:51 PM)
Perhaps I conform to those male stereotypes others have mentioned, because I often give my Mistress advice if I suspect it might be helpful - particularly if she mentions a problem she needs to solve, or a task she's working on. However, I try to be properly deferential about it, and I would certainly shut up if told to do so. She hasn't complained so far, which leads me to think that her tolerance for "unsolicited advice" is fairly high.

chamberqueen -> RE: The Dance (5/24/2008 3:58:15 PM)
I think it's more of a "guy" thing than a "Dom" thing. Men feel better when they give advice; it is there way of showing that they care. I find that working in a field that is made up almost completely of men, and having grown up around more men than women, that sometimes I do the same thing. It doesn't mean that they think that you are a doormat or can't think on your own. It is more of them showing that they care. I know I got frustrated with my Master in the beginning when He would tell me to check the hotel room carefully before I left to make sure that I didn't leave anything behind. I travel at least once a month for my job and figured that I knew better than He did to check the room for personal belongings. Then I realized, after about the third time, that He was really just trying to be nice to me and watch out for me.

windchymes -> RE: The Dance (5/24/2008 5:15:09 PM)
I agree, it's just an inborn guy thing, not an "alpha male" thing. Look around any neighborhood on a Sunday afternoon. If some guy goes out in his front yard and starts digging a hole, every other guy in the neighborhood will wander over and stand around offering advice while the first guy is digging the hole. Pretty soon, you'll see half a dozen of them just standing there watching while the first guy is digging the hole. One will tell him he should have used a bigger shovel. Another will tell him to watch the tree roots because it'll kill the tree in his yard next door. Another one will want to try out the new rototiller he just got on sale at Lowe's. Yet another will ask if he called the gas company to check where the lines are down there, don't dig too deep. It's a guy thing. I know what you mean, though. I get really irritated when people talk to me like that, too. No matter how submissive a man says he is, I still think they have to preserve that bit of male ego. Or, they honestly just think they're being helpful, it's not that they think any less of you.

chiaThePet -> RE: The Dance (5/24/2008 7:43:26 PM)
Do these pants make my ass look big? Better? One two cha cha cha. chia* (the pet)

Tapestry -> RE: The Dance (5/24/2008 9:16:51 PM)
Perhaps now we know the origin of the phrase: "When I want your opinion I'll beat it out of you!" I'm also reminded of the words: "You can say it all you want, but that doesn't make it so." Just a couple of the things which come to mind here...

LadyHibiscus -> RE: The Dance (5/24/2008 9:23:23 PM)
Oh that is so totally guy behavior! Makes me NUTS, I tell ya! And don't even get me started on how they interrupt scenes to offer toys and advice.....

eyesopened -> RE: The Dance (5/25/2008 2:53:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross Perhaps it's more just a male issue- males tend to be problem solvers, they want to DO something to make it better, that's how they work. Females are much more simply sharing information to reach a common understanding. Extremely stereotypical of course, but often true, especially when dealing with a male dom who feels it's their responsibility to "make it better." And a side note- alpha males don't have to announce their status. The ones who literally feel the need to announce it are generally the least likely candidates when things go down. Very well said! Males in general see themselves as problem solvers. If one observes men speaking with each other, the conversation may go like this "I'm putting in flagstones in the back yard" "Oh? You should use xxxx cuz it works better. If you send me the design I can help you do it better." "Cool." (with the abvreviated head nod) Translated from man-speak into woman-speak: "I'm putting in flagstones in the back yard. What do you know about doing this?" "I don't want to break my back helping you but I've used xxxx and it worked for me." "I've heard what you said and I will accept it or reject it as I see fit." Neither man in the conversation is offended. The man offering his opinion on xxxx being the solution doesn't care if the flagstone installer accepts or rejects his idea. The flagstone intaller isn't offended that the other guy offered his experience. It is a totally neutral exchange.

edgepassion -> RE: The Dance (5/25/2008 2:55:43 AM)
And to think I always thought it was just a strange coincidence that every Lady I’ve ever been with seemed to have a gag fetish… Seriously though, case of misfeasance, not malfeasance…..honest…. Good topic…

LPslittleclip -> RE: The Dance (5/25/2008 4:09:22 AM)
men are from mars and the ladies are from Venus. its true both of us may seem to speak the same language but the intended message and the one received buy the opposite sex can be quite different. a counselor taught my wife and i that. all to often the message that was intended to be sent and the one received needs some clarification. as a sub i have learned to listen and think before speaking (still working on doing it all the time). this has helped in many ways in O/our poly family, and in life.

MladyHathor -> RE: The Dance (5/25/2008 5:49:35 AM)
*THAT was priceless!*

chiaThePet -> RE: The Dance (5/25/2008 7:03:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tapestry Perhaps now we know the origin of the phrase: "When I want your opinion I'll beat it out of you!" I'm also reminded of the words: "You can say it all you want, but that doesn't make it so." Just a couple of the things which come to mind here... You're wearing pants aren't you? Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum. chia* (the pet)

kiwisub12 -> RE: The Dance (5/25/2008 7:56:34 AM)
Way back when i was married, my husband would (very helpfully) offer suggestions on how to do things "better". It would drive me nuts - i felt as if he was questioning my compentency. Now i just realise that he was being "helpful", without the responsibility of actually doing something. Pity i didn't know about ballgags then!

chiaThePet -> RE: The Dance (5/25/2008 8:04:55 AM)
Oo oo, I like ball gags! Especially when they're still attached! chia* (the pet)

DominantJenny -> RE: The Dance (5/25/2008 8:11:20 AM)
checks bits Yep, still female. Still giving a whole lot of advice and doing a whole lot of problem-solving. Humph. (I AM smart enough to notice when it pisses people off, most of the time, though. :P) On the other hand, my guy isn't foolish enough to offer me advice when I'm not interested in it. breakin' stereotypes since...some point in my childhood

slaveluci -> RE: The Dance (5/25/2008 8:15:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MladyHathor *I am a professional with a well respected Fortune 25 company--I am a senior in my position--I sure as hell didnt get here by sleeping my way---hence:* *"yes I am working on a presentation this evening"..." oh let me look at it and maybe I can help make it better"* *" I am putting in flag stones in the back yard"..." oh you should use xxxx as it works better, send me the design and i will help you do it better"* *"I am having the hall floor replaced"..."oh well you need to do this this and this"* *never once did I ask for advice, unsolicited advice to Me makes My blood turn blue---* I see what you're saying but being a Fortune 25 company senior employee doesn't necessarily mean that you know how best to do everything, including laying flag stones or replacing the hall floor. Maybe, just maybe, some of the unsolicited, unwanted advice you receive may be good? Maybe there is someone out there who does happen to know more about a given subject than you and really can offer some helpful tips so that you can avoid mistakes? I don't mean to sound harsh but I speak from a bit of experience. I also sometimes get seriously annoyed at receiving unsolicited "helpful" advice. I am a professional, educated, full-of-common-sense woman myself and I think, "Ya know? Thanks but no thanks. I do know a little something myself." But, over the course of time, I've come to recognize when I'm feeling this way and I ask myself if the advice really could be helpful. I check myself to make sure that I'm not just worrying that they are implying I don't know everything (WHAT? I don't know EVERYTHING?[image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m20.gif[/image]). I've had to learn to take a couple deep breaths and think to myself that probably that's not what they're doing at all. Maybe they have learned from experience what the best way to do something is and they're really trying to help me avoid similar problems they've gone through. Can't say it will help your feelings on the issue but it sure has helped me. By not automatically and instantly jumping to the conclusion that someone is trying to "show me up" or point out that I'm not all-knowing[8\|], I've been able to listen to what they're really saying and glean some good help along the way. Give it a shot. It can't hurt. *quote:* submission does not mean doormat, it also does not mean you need to ride to My rescue in all things unless I ask---and don't offer Me advice if I don't ask--what the hell makes you think I CAN'T do it better?? Offering helpful advice doesn't necessarily mean "riding to the rescue" in a negative sense. Perhaps there is a chance that you CAN'T do ALL things better and that you DON'T know best in ALL things. I know that's hard for some people - esp. some dominants - to hear but it's pretty right on. Would you rather someone let you proceed and fall on your face when they could have offered some helpful advice beforehand? Maybe so. Some would. I know with Master, however, that even though I don't "call the shots," if I can somehow help or advise Him and it ends up with a better, more positive result, He's open to receiving what I have to say. Being so prideful and "knowledgable" as to not want to hear even good advice since you're sure you already know "better" can definitely lead to one's humbling. But that's what some people prefer, I suppose. To me, the key is being willing to listen sincerely to the advice and - then and only then - decide for yourself if it's "good" and worthy of following or not. You never know, you may actually get some grains of wisdom now and again[:)]............luci

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