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RE: Obama misspeaks again - 5/28/2008 12:52:46 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Did they ever provide a definition for it, or an example of the change they expect from the candidate of their choice?



Yes, I hear a lot of people express their disgust at the Republican party and their wish to see a non-Republican elected to office. That would be a very welcome change: they feel the Republicans have overstayed their welcome. There is hope out there that the Democrats would bring about a fresh approach to policy. I surround myself well :-). I realise you probably don't agree with them, though  .



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RE: Obama misspeaks again - 5/28/2008 1:00:39 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
Yes, I hear a lot of people express their disgust at the Republican party and their wish to see a non-Republican elected to office. That would be a very welcome change: they feel the Republicans have overstayed their welcome. There is hope out there that the Democrats would bring about a fresh approach to policy. I surround myself well :-). I realise you probably don't agree with them, though .

That's a foolish hope. Even Obama's "changes" are rehashed and rewarmed socialism. Democrats haven't had a new idea since FDR.

There is a reason why the approval rating for Congress has matched Bush's SINCE the Democrats took over. Their approach to policy is just as bad as Bush's--and in some cases worse.

You want change? Vote the Libertarians into office. Voting for a Democrat is not voting for change, just higher taxes.

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RE: Obama misspeaks again - 5/28/2008 1:33:31 PM   
DomAviator


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Joined: 4/22/2008
Status: offline 		Now lets be fair Obama was educated in a Muslim school in indonesia till he was a teenager so the boy had more important classes to take than WW2 history....  He may not know who liberated Auschwitz, but where do ya fit in history when you need to cover the basics - Jihad 101, Introduction to Explosives (with Lab) , Box Cutters and You, Basic Flight Theory, etc...

James Earl Ray, where are ya when we need ya!!

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RE: Obama misspeaks again - 5/28/2008 1:35:15 PM   
cyberdude611


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

They are voting for change.



Would you be so kind to explain what exactly "change" is? Because Obama wont tell us...

People just like the word I guess.

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RE: Obama misspeaks again - 5/28/2008 1:39:07 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		I have no interest in comparing candidates with you and in having to watch yet another frothing at the mouth competition along the lines of "your candidate sucks and you're foolish because you won't vote like me": it's become tedious beyond belief  . I don't know if you've noticed, but some people on these boards are going as far as to call for Obama to be assassinated. Playground politics have their limitations. 


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RE: Obama misspeaks again - 5/28/2008 1:42:52 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Would you be so kind to explain what exactly "change" is? Because Obama wont tell us...

People just like the word I guess.



Yes, people like the word, you guessed right. Words are the tool of choice for conveying ideas.

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RE: Obama misspeaks again - 5/28/2008 2:12:31 PM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Did they ever provide a definition for it, or an example of the change they expect from the candidate of their choice?



Yes, I hear a lot of people express their disgust at the Republican party and their wish to see a non-Republican elected to office. That would be a very welcome change: they feel the Republicans have overstayed their welcome. There is hope out there that the Democrats would bring about a fresh approach to policy. I surround myself well :-). I realise you probably don't agree with them, though  .

Neutral actually; I put it in the same context of meaningless as I do regarding similar debates on CM regarding the distinction between slave and submissive.

Anyone who puts more value in a label than in the reality of the situation is not worth the effort of debate.

Actually in the similarity isn't accurate. There would be a better argument for distinguishing sub/slave than there is with distinguishing Democrat from Republican. For instance there was not one Democrat voting against funding Iraq; including the remaining two Democrats running for President. Every no vote came from the Republican side.

I don't think that fact makes an argument for the Republican party being the 'Party of Peace' anymore than it makes the Democrats the 'Party of Hypocrisy'. I see it as another example of agenda based voting.

I need the view from your "friends" eyes to see any 'Change' to be generated by changing a label. When men write to beth seeing her and labeling her as their 'Ideal Domme' of their dreams; I don't consider their skewed vision nor does it have any effect on reality.

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RE: Obama misspeaks again - 5/28/2008 2:21:38 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Fair enough: some people see that they have to make a choice, and they make that choice according to a plethora of reasons. Enjoy your choice :-) .

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RE: Obama misspeaks again - 5/28/2008 2:39:00 PM   
Hippiekinkster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

I have no interest in comparing candidates with you and in having to watch yet another frothing at the mouth competition along the lines of "your candidate sucks and you're foolish because you won't vote like me": it's become tedious beyond belief  . I don't know if you've noticed, but some people on these boards are going as far as to call for Obama to be assassinated. Playground politics have their limitations. 

Yeah, and one of them just went on iggy.

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RE: Obama misspeaks again - 5/28/2008 2:52:33 PM   
kittinSol


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Status: offline 		Too right, Hippie  .

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RE: Obama misspeaks again - 5/28/2008 3:19:32 PM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

I suspect my view will not be popular, but I think the reason why so many in America find Obama scary is very simple....he is black


It's not popular, but it is correct, Arpig.


Sooooooooooo, let me see if I understand.  If I don't support Obama I'm a racist.  If I don't vote for Hillary I'm a misogynist.  If I don't like McCain it's because I'm ageist. 

This election started off ok with people actually talking about the issues but it's going downhill really fast.  But hell, it is entertaining and that's what American politics is all about!  Almost as good as American Idol.  


Look at what Arpig said -- "so many", which means "some" not "all", which means some are excluded, perhaps yourself.

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RE: Obama misspeaks again - 5/28/2008 3:27:32 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
Yes, people like the word, you guessed right. Words are the tool of choice for conveying ideas.

What new ideas are ANY candidates putting forward? Clinton, Obama, McCain.....take your pick. What original ideas...what actual CHANGE are any of them really proposing?

Besides the particular political party affiliation of the occupant of the Oval Office, that is.

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RE: Obama misspeaks again - 5/28/2008 5:46:41 PM   
Irishknight


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster
Well, refresh yourself on what our pale brothers and sisters said after being exit-polled in WV. Somethin' like 20% said they didn't vote for him because of race (which is a socio-political construct, I might add).

You aren't going to try and argue that that holds true only for WV, are you?

In truth, I can get poll numbers to support nearly any position I want.  All I have to do is wait until I see the person most likely to give the answer I want.  My guess is that the people who took part in the polls are a small portion of people and not exactly reporesentative of the whole.  Most people I've seen when approached for polling after voting told the pollsters to go away.  I know I refuse to participate in them. 

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RE: Obama misspeaks again - 5/28/2008 6:23:26 PM   
Alumbrado


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Status: offline 		I have no faith in the reliability of exit polls either, and the Wilder fiasco pretty much cinched it in the other direction.

Doesn't mean that I think no one is against Obama because he had a black father... I just doubt that many of them would admit it, even to a pollster.


< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 5/28/2008 6:30:50 PM >

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RE: Obama misspeaks again - 5/29/2008 2:07:22 AM   
DomAviator


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster
Well, refresh yourself on what our pale brothers and sisters said after being exit-polled in WV. Somethin' like 20% said they didn't vote for him because of race (which is a socio-political construct, I might add).

You aren't going to try and argue that that holds true only for WV, are you?


Actually, based on my observations here in Houston... the 20% number is WAY too low. I have had MANY discussions about Obama with various friends, co-workers, and business associates.... Well educated upper middle class and above, white people. Current and former military officers, airline pilots (including $200K + per year widebody captains), NASA engineers and aerospace contractors, law enforcement officers (pilots in the aviation units), lawyers, businesspersons at two chambers of commerce meetings, even my dentist, etc... (So we aren't talking jethro and bubba at the trailer park. We are talking Hummer driving, 40 + foot boat owning, gated commutinty dwellers...) I can count one one hand the number of times I have heard him referred to as anything but a racial slur. He may carry the inner city areas, but the white middle class and above South is NOT ready for a black president... The only thing he had going for him to gain him even a smidgeon of acceptability with the suburbanite whites down here was that he was half white, and the Jerimiah Wright thing killed that for him. As far as the folks down here are concerned - hes the patron saint of the Katrina refugee. Oddly enough, with the well educated affluent blacks of the same demographic group - ie the folks over in lovely and well kept Missouri City - his association with Wright, and Sharpton, etc make him persona non gratis with them as well. The whites dont want him cause hes black, and the upper middle class and wealthy blacks dont want him cause hes running around with black "leaders" who they generally despise. (Sharpton, Wright, Farrakhan, Jackson et.al.) So yeah its not West Virginia alone, and I think its a hell of a lot higher than 20%... Count me in, I wont vote for him cause hes the wrong kind of black. Powell or Condie I would vote for - but as soon as a man poses for a photo with Sharpton he becomes well you know the word Im thinking... I dont want a "black president" I want an American President and as long as he runs around gladhanding that rabble rousing devisive trash and sucking up to the "we be oppressed and da man got his foot on our throats" ahem, leaders, hes not my president. As evidenced by the wonderful standard of living in Missouri City, and the fact that our last two Secretaries of State are black, this "we need black leaders because we are oppressed" crap no longer flies.  Obama cut his own throat by surrounding himself with race baiters who do nothing but cry about entitlement and lack of opportunity and evil white people in what his preacher called the "god damn kkk of A" and if you lay down with dogs then expect to wake up with fleas...

Edited to add - Also, for the record I am against Obama not just because his father was black - but because his father was Kenyan, and his step father was indonesian, and he was RAISED IN INDONESIA. He should get himself on the ticket in Jakarta not here. If the democrats wanted to run a black man, they should have found one who is truly an American. Obama is American on paper only, his formative years were spent outside the US in a third world culture and as far as Im concerned his candidacy is a constitutional end run around the requirement that you be born american. He was extruded here, by ONE not two american parents, and then he left to be raised abroad... At best he is HALF american...

< Message edited by DomAviator -- 5/29/2008 2:15:16 AM >

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RE: Obama misspeaks again - 5/29/2008 2:31:20 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
Yes, I hear a lot of people express their disgust at the Republican party and their wish to see a non-Republican elected to office. That would be a very welcome change: they feel the Republicans have overstayed their welcome. There is hope out there that the Democrats would bring about a fresh approach to policy. I surround myself well :-). I realise you probably don't agree with them, though .


Even Obama's "changes" are rehashed and rewarmed socialism. Democrats haven't had a new idea since FDR.

You want change? Vote the Libertarians into office. Voting for a Democrat is not voting for change, just higher taxes.


That's the price for having a bloated military fighting a pointless war, while giving charity tax handouts to the rich, someone has to pay for it in the end.

But maybe you believe succeeding generations should pay for Bush's foolish Presidency rather than the generation that are guilty of voting him in?


To label Obama socialist is mind boggling, he is firmly on the right and hasn't one recognizable socialist policy. Though to be honest, like the other candidates, he doesn't seem to have any policies at all.

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RE: Obama misspeaks again - 5/29/2008 2:58:15 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Sooooooooooo, let me see if I understand.  If I don't support Obama I'm a racist.  If I don't vote for Hillary I'm a misogynist.  If I don't like McCain it's because I'm ageist.  



No, if someone thinks that black people are inherently inferior, and that defines their judgement of Obama, then they are racists. 
If someone thinks that no woman is ever good enough to be in any leadership position, and uses that as their criteria for judging Hillary, that is sexism.
If they think that no one older than themselves is fit to work, and project that assumption onto McCain, that is ageism.


The people who don't hold those beliefs have had no problem explaining what it is about Obama's and Hillary's and McCain's policies, or platforms that they will or won't support.

The people who keep resorting to hoaxes, myths, rumors, and irrational rhetoric to condemn or support their 'side' leave themselves open to the suspicion that there is more 'ism' to their choices than they will admit.


But you knew the difference when you started slinging straw didn't you?


In going on your noble crusade to point out intolerance you are making that the focus of the campaign instead of the issues.  So how is your accusing people of racism or sexism any different than any of the other irrational rhetoric used to condemn or support a certain candidate?  You're doing the same finger-pointing but cloaking yourself in a mantle of self-righteousness.


By the way, what is "slinging straw"?  (That's a serious question.  Never heard it before.) 

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RE: Obama misspeaks again - 5/29/2008 3:24:36 AM   
persephonee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: toothlessNsmelly

I can't see why ole Hussein isany more scary than ole John or ole Hillary. I find none of them to be particularly scary. Any more than I would find a puppet to be scary.
I admit there are a lot of creepy puppets but not scary ones really.

What I'm scared of are the puppeteers.


Hey there T'nS...good to see you here....and ain't dat da trudt.

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RE: Obama misspeaks again - 5/29/2008 3:57:43 AM   
lronitulstahp


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Obama's advisors better tell him to just shut up when it comes to foreign policy and history....he's clueless...

On Memorial Day he made a comment that his uncle was one of the first Americans to liberate the prisoners at the Auschwitz Nazi death camp.
Problem is...the allies did not liberate Auschwitz. The Soviets did.

Now a day later his campaign puts out a statement claiming Obama "misspoke" and that the camp he meant to say was Buchenwald.

http://comments.breitbart.com/d90u7s4g4/

If anyone gets this guy in a fair debate on history or foreign policy, he'll be blown out of the water and look like a fool.
http://www.collarchat.com/m_1874047/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#1874148
i think i pretty much have the same response to this thread as i had to the "Idiot McCain" thread...so at least as far as i can tell, my opinions don't follow along party lines...i hope we can all say the same.

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RE: Obama misspeaks again - 5/29/2008 5:18:07 AM   
Alumbrado


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Sooooooooooo, let me see if I understand.  If I don't support Obama I'm a racist.  If I don't vote for Hillary I'm a misogynist.  If I don't like McCain it's because I'm ageist.  



No, if someone thinks that black people are inherently inferior, and that defines their judgement of Obama, then they are racists. 
If someone thinks that no woman is ever good enough to be in any leadership position, and uses that as their criteria for judging Hillary, that is sexism.
If they think that no one older than themselves is fit to work, and project that assumption onto McCain, that is ageism.


The people who don't hold those beliefs have had no problem explaining what it is about Obama's and Hillary's and McCain's policies, or platforms that they will or won't support.

The people who keep resorting to hoaxes, myths, rumors, and irrational rhetoric to condemn or support their 'side' leave themselves open to the suspicion that there is more 'ism' to their choices than they will admit.


But you knew the difference when you started slinging straw didn't you?


In going on your noble crusade to point out intolerance you are making that the focus of the campaign instead of the issues.  So how is your accusing people of racism or sexism any different than any of the other irrational rhetoric used to condemn or support a certain candidate?  You're doing the same finger-pointing but cloaking yourself in a mantle of self-righteousness.


By the way, what is "slinging straw"?  (That's a serious question.  Never heard it before.) 



What a load of horse shit.  Giving definitions of racism isn't accusing anyone. If the shoe fits, and all that.
And being intolerant of racism,  et al.  is a good thing, so you can stuff the moral relativism as well.

I suspect that you know full well that you are making straw man arguments by claiming I said things I never said.


Buh-bye.

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Profile   Post #: 100
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