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RE: ~~A question for the sake of asking~~ - 5/28/2008 3:36:26 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
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From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

The Point of this thread is to ask people what is so great about the Fantasy that you pass up the reality for it?

I am just curious as to why people would wather be completely miserable rather than be Relativly Content.

Just Curioius Conversation really.

Steel

Well, I think this is kind of a no brainer but, someone who can't be alone without being completely miserable probably isn't good relationship material. Expecting more is expecting too much. If someone is already in a relationship and is completely miserable .. well, that's a choice, too and you'd probably be better served asking the miserable why they put up with it as any answer you get here is just going to be supposition.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to SteelofUtah)

Post #: 21

RE: ~~A question for the sake of asking~~ - 5/28/2008 3:40:27 PM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
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Honestly Steel? I do see a huge difference in the animals you chose. It's just me hey - not wanting to be picky, but if you had chosen - say elephants, or dolphins for example, I could see how they would relate. But Lions and Wolves? Not so much.
I'm not of the 'we are all animals' train of thought, which is why I mentioned sentience. Now you know that, you can see why I said what I did.

So, I have to still disagree with the sentiment - however rough it may be. I trust that clears it up.

the.dark.

_____________________________

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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to SteelofUtah)

Post #: 22

RE: ~~A question for the sake of asking~~ - 5/28/2008 3:46:46 PM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah
The Point of this thread is to ask people what is so great about the Fantasy that you pass up the reality for it?

I am just curious as to why people would wather be completely miserable rather than be Relativly Content.

Just Curioius Conversation really.

Steel

In answer to this - I don't understand why people think that the fantasy can't be the reality and work for that instead of being lazy and settling.
And I would not want to be completely miserable nor relatively content. I want to be completely happy and totally content - so I work hard for it.

I don't think I am much help to your questions, being delirously sickening, lifewise.

the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to SteelofUtah)

Post #: 23

RE: ~~A question for the sake of asking~~ - 5/28/2008 4:00:10 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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What's the difference between a loving dom and a non-dominating dom exactly?

I think you already know the answers to your questions.

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(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 24

RE: ~~A question for the sake of asking~~ - 5/28/2008 4:05:30 PM

SteelofUtah

Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

The tragic thing in all of this is while we are staring at someone who doesn't even know we exist and while we are thinking how much better off they would be with us, there is someone we didn't notice looking at us thinking how much better off we would be with them.

Kind of makes you humble, doesn't it?

This My friend was my point, This which was said so much simpler than the Long winded question I asked is what I want to discuss.

When we do know they are interested why do we walk on by? Why not see where it goes?

I really do want to understand this.

Steel

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(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 25

RE: ~~A question for the sake of asking~~ - 5/28/2008 5:07:52 PM

kallisto

Posts: 1185
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

What makes us try so hard to maintain a slipping fantasy that we put ourselves time and time again into BAD situations that are destined to end bad?

Do we do this so we don't ever have to focus on something that might actually work that isn't as shiny as the fantasy is?

Why are we so quick to jump on what looks like perfection that we jump right over someone that is perfecty just as good.... just not as shiny?

Steel

(who is tired of being let down)

I can actually see the comparisons Steel used with the Lions and the Wolves.   The difference in us and them is that we (humans) know that we don't go around killing to keep our "relationships" or to stay the dominant in the "pride".    That's what puts us above the rest of the animals.

But not to dwell on that... Society is what makes us think that life should be all about fantasies. It is everywhere.   Steel, you said it, fantasy is shiny. Real life can be dull as hell in all aspects.   In fantasy land, we can "imagine" who we would fit with. The "shinier" the better (in our minds).   Shiny is beautiful and sleek. Who would choose ugly and rough?

Fantasy is everywhere.   It takes a confident, self-loving, self-respecting person to be able to know that yes, fantasy has a place in real life, but real life is what you get.   I would rather have my real life any day, that a life time of fantasy. Sounds kind of out of it doesn't it?

I want someone that is real. That lives in the real world with me. Not in fantasy land where he is always "imagining" someone or a life that is shinier.

(in reply to SteelofUtah)

Post #: 26

RE: ~~A question for the sake of asking~~ - 5/28/2008 5:29:50 PM

gypsygrl

Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
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quote:

When we do know they are interested why do we walk on by? Why not see where it goes?

I don't know. I've shown an interest in a number of guys, and they didn't reciprocate, at least not in the way I wanted. It's just life. Ya gotta take what it gives you. (See...there's my fatalism showing through.)

'Why questions' generally don't have any answer. In this case, you're asking about motivations. The category 'motive' is a problematic one because it trades on an anology of there being an internal motor driving one's decisions. Some things just really can't ever be known, one of them being why others act the way they do.

At least thats my thought on the matter.

_____________________________

“To be happy is to be able to become aware of oneself without fright.” ~Walter Benjamin

(in reply to SteelofUtah)

Post #: 27

RE: ~~A question for the sake of asking~~ - 5/28/2008 6:09:12 PM

Owner4SexSlave

Posts: 1311
Joined: 4/4/2007
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Steel, I've been coming to terms with a few things myself lately. I think the problem lies within our own minds, conditioning of socialized norms.

For instance what self respecting DOM would be with any women besides a submissive.

In many regards where we are defined by our relationships and not defined as individuals.

We trip and fall over ourselves in the chase of strange Paradoxes we ourselves don't fully understand.   You Know the conflict of thoughts, abuse me and use me, yet Love me at the same time.

I think I understand where you are coming from with overlooking things. Personally, let's say I became so consumed in a Quest for some idealized slave girl, I just might overlook somebody who's vanilla like and slightly kinky, that I might find everything and everything I ever needed right there. But I would be too blind to have seen it.

I've been fighting a bit to keep my mind Open to things. Still there is a part of me that has a thirst for something. OK, for me it's confusion.. Prime Rib or Steak Dinner wait, how about...   All nice and tasty! Ok, sounds bad does it not?

I most certainly don't have any fantasy images of M/s or TPE running around inside my head. Well, a few fantasies... but reality is reality of day to day living 24/7 with M/s.   It's something more besides a 30 minute porno, or the fantasic story of O.

Still none the less, I'm striving to keep the doors open and not overlook or pass something by.   Perhaps this makes me a bit of Lone Wolf, but what the Hell. Sometimes being a lone wolf has it's advantages, you don't have to do what the rest of the Pack is doing.

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 28

RE: ~~A question for the sake of asking~~ - 5/28/2008 6:50:16 PM

Quivver

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Joined: 11/27/2004
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And what's so wrong with the Animal Kingdom? Sure it's primal, but it also has its nurturing, it's as real as it gets. Society is the one that changed things, made it orderly, gave a pattern they expected to be followed. Sometimes for a good reason, but over the years even that evolved past it's original thoughts.
I must agree with Gypsygrl about the fatalism and the laws of attraction. If you view the end before the beginning you are doomed to live what you see.
I reach not for Fantasy, but a more natural Reality. Is that animalistic? Possibly so. Does what I view fit society's expectations? Oh hell NO. Do I care? Again.... NO
Yet what is perfection? Who's view do you want to use? Are you strong enough to reach beyond the accepted norm in either lifestyle and create what works for you?
............. Purrrrrrrr
(and no I have not read all the replies here yet... hoping i'm not repeating others!)

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(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 29

RE: ~~A question for the sake of asking~~ - 5/28/2008 6:52:00 PM

kyraofMists

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Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah
I was actually curious as to why people will pass up a perfectly good relationship which could be very positive and mutually benificial just so they can further drudge around in misery alone wondering what is wrong with them.

Because maybe they are not ready for a relationship at that point. I am sure people asked this about me. I had no partner and was celibate for almost 10 years. It was what I needed at that time and I am sure that many thought I must be miserable being alone. I needed to not be in a relationship and focus on me. I needed to get me to a place internally where I was ready for a relationship.

Until I was ready for a relationship, being alone was the best thing I could do for myself. And much to people's dismay, I was incredibly happy alone.

Now, I have everything I could have wished for and then some. This relationship is so fucking easy I have to pinch myself (well he prefers to do the pinching) just to make sure I am not dreaming. I stopped trying to force myself into some box that other people thought would be good for me and waited for the box that perfectly fit me already. Maybe to some I was waiting on a fantasy, but my reality right now is many people's fantasy....

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to SteelofUtah)

Post #: 30

RE: ~~A question for the sake of asking~~ - 5/28/2008 7:29:17 PM

cpK69

Posts: 1593
Joined: 5/9/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

I am just curious as to why people would wather be completely miserable rather than be Relativly Content.

These sound like the words of my fist owner, who recently attempted to convince me to reconnect.

The answer; in the end, “completely miserable” is no more miserable then “relatively content”.

Actually worse, as there is no hope for improvement.

< Message edited by cpK69 -- 5/28/2008 7:30:22 PM >

(in reply to SteelofUtah)

Post #: 31

RE: ~~A question for the sake of asking~~ - 5/28/2008 8:26:03 PM

favesclava

Posts: 1608
Joined: 2/15/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

I am going to disagree with most of the post Steel. Lions are killers and as Michael said, kill the young of others.
Wolves only mate as long as they are the alpha in the pack - and that doesn't last their life.
And as humans we are sentient.

So to the questions -

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

So the Question for the sake of Asking is this.

What makes us try so hard to maintain a slipping fantasy that we put ourselves time and time again into BAD situations that are destined to end bad?

Because it exists a fantasy when people make it fantastical. I live my fantasy as reality and have never had a bad end.

quote:

Do we do this so we don't ever have to focus on something that might actually work that isn't as shiny as the fantasy is?

Because most people settle instead of striving and being true to themselves.

quote:

Why are we so quick to jump on what looks like perfection that we jump right over someone that is perfecty just as good.... just not as shiny?

Steel

(who is tired of being let down)

Because some are fooled into the materalistic and that perfection actually exists and most people are inherently lazy - when perfection instead should be worked for and is the ultimate finale.

the.dark.

as always , very well put , the. dark.
Master and i knew we wanted to be with each other. it has been over time that we realized we are each other's fantasy. because its proven day by day. not by fantastical deeds. but by small gestures and words. by the satisfaction of knowing the other exist and is part of of our being.
necessary . not just needed , not just wanted , but necessary.
as i've said said before, if it were to end right now this very moment i wouldnt cry, but be thankful for every second since we met. and if thats not every girl's fantasy i dont know what is.

< Message edited by favesclava -- 5/28/2008 8:27:37 PM >

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(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 32

RE: ~~A question for the sake of asking~~ - 5/28/2008 8:46:30 PM

Leatherist

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Because people are still basically children mentally. They don't sit down and look back over thier part in things-personal responsibility and accountability are too painful to have to deal with.

So instead,they live in a state of denial that says "Everything is just fine with me,it's those others who took advantage." When you lose the rose colored glasses,you are confronted with a bedrock view,rather than one of clouds. Then you realize that there is a lot of work to build something that high-and not have it come crashing down at a moment's notice.

And you begin where we all should,by laying a firm foundation. The rest rises a day at time. There ARE no quick and easy ways to get there.

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I'm not taking custom orders.

(in reply to SteelofUtah)

Post #: 33

RE: ~~A question for the sake of asking~~ - 5/28/2008 9:12:11 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

Because people are still basically children mentally. They don't sit down and look back over their part in things-personal responsibility and accountability are too painful to have to deal with.

So instead,they live in a state of denial that says "Everything is just fine with me,it's those others who took advantage." When you lose the rose colored glasses,you are confronted with a bedrock view,rather than one of clouds. Then you realize that there is a lot of work to build something that high-and not have it come crashing down at a moment's notice.

And you begin where we all should,by laying a firm foundation. The rest rises a day at time. There ARE no quick and easy ways to get there.

Build it and they will cum...seriously though you are so right about all of that except I would say that self-awareness isn't on or off, it is sort of like a walking into a bright room, at first it seems blinding and then normal until the next bright flash of light and the process starts all over again.

The ability to create a mutually supportive and rewarding relationship is where it all begins, without that you can have nothing and with it, there really are no limits...

(in reply to Leatherist)

Post #: 34

RE: ~~A question for the sake of asking~~ - 5/28/2008 9:13:54 PM

serioussilly

Posts: 3
Joined: 5/28/2008
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quote:

really just primitive

Wouldn't have it any other way. When i meet new women I tell them about my interests followed by 'beat me up' ( =) )

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 35

RE: ~~A question for the sake of asking~~ - 5/28/2008 9:49:43 PM

ShatteredSoul123

Posts: 29
Joined: 5/17/2008
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quote:

What makes us try so hard to maintain a slipping fantasy that we put ourselves time and time again into BAD situations that are destined to end bad?

What an odd question. My first relationship was a vanilla one and it ended with the girl I was see'ing calling about 10 different guys to come "beat the crap out of me". I wouldn't just give up on relationships because of bad past experiences. They happen more frequently in the vanilla world then in the bdsm world. We are just more at risk because we shop online more frequently. As far as destined to end bad... thats true of ALL relationships. Just look at the vast numbers of vanilla relationships where there are kids involved. Most relationships will fail... each thing you add to it increases that risk, be it bdsm, kids, or whatever. To not try hard to maintain the relationship, is to give up on your desires. Why would someone do that?

quote:

Do we do this so we don't ever have to focus on something that might actually work that isn't as shiny as the fantasy is?

With the exception of going back 20+ years... what relationship actually works? Sense the start of the 90's it has been common practice to bail when times get hard. Look at the numbers of failed marriages in the 90's and 00's compaired to any other time in history. Most people want their happily ever after and don't think they should have to work for it. BDSM is one of the few lifestyles left that people WILL work to maintain. I don't agree at all with your logic on this.

quote:

Why are we so quick to jump on what looks like perfection that we jump right over someone that is perfecty just as good.... just not as shiny?

Again I must disagree. I know more people who are NOT shallow in this lifestyle then anywhere else. People in bdsm have no problem having a BBS (big busty sub). They realize that the shiny finish on the outside is meaningless compaired to the inner beauty and magic that is a submissive or dominant.

I just think your questions and thoughts are a bit off. You are claiming these things are lifestyle related when in fact its more of a "modern times" issue.

But, thats just my 2 cents

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(in reply to SteelofUtah)

Post #: 36

RE: ~~A question for the sake of asking~~ - 5/29/2008 5:05:56 AM

CrazyC

Posts: 949
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah
This My friend was my point, This which was said so much simpler than the Long winded question I asked is what I want to discuss.

When we do know they are interested why do we walk on by? Why not see where it goes?

I really do want to understand this.

Steel

I had a dear friend sat me down one day after again crying over a relationship that didn't last more then a couple weeks. It was normal for me to have none lasting relationships while those who could give me more weren't what I wanted. They usually weren't even in a view as perspectives. She then asked me something that just didn't make any sence..."Maybe you just don't REALLY want a long term relationship?" Now why would I not want that? After sometime i came to accept that I didn't want a commited relationship, and infact continually dated one guy after another where no commitment was made. At some point, there was one relationship where we even told each other it was just play.

Why wasn't I ready? Was I just looking for something more shiney or was it something else? At first, I really thought I continually cared for guys who would never commit, because there was something wrong with me. But the more I looked into it, I just was attracting them into my life because i was scared.

Many do this not even noticing this. They would rather live in their fantacy. But I don't know if i would say it's because it is primal, it seems more that is where they are in relationships. Fantacy is better then having to deal with the sweat and gore of a real relationship where you have to deal with each other day in and day out.

LOL looks like i might be long winded also...sorry.

_____________________________

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Post #: 37

RE: ~~A question for the sake of asking~~ - 5/29/2008 8:00:30 AM

SimplyMichael

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Joined: 1/7/2007
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quote:

Fantacy is better then having to deal with the sweat and gore of a real relationship where you have to deal with each other day in and day out.

Give me that "sweat and gore" any day. BSB and I were playing scrabble online the other day and she had her microphone on and the cacophony of four screaming kids in the background washed over me and created a calm and happiness that blew me away. I want so much to be part of that that I almost cried.

How's THAT for an image of "Domliness" playing scrabble and crying like a girl...LOL!

(in reply to CrazyC)

Post #: 38

RE: ~~A question for the sake of asking~~ - 5/29/2008 8:27:46 AM

MadRabbit

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I think they are bullshit questions and like most of your posts, based off stereotypes, caricatures, and extrapolations of abstract people.

It's a long-winded way of asking (and complaining) "Why do people have over-the-top expectations in BDSM?"

Because it's the natural progression of growth?

People gain experience by having expectations and then redefining those expectations based on the reality of the experience.

It's a long process, too.

What I wanted two years ago was drastically different then what I want and it's constantly evolving and changing as I evolve and change, meet new people, have new experiences, and learn more about me.

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(in reply to SteelofUtah)

Post #: 39

RE: ~~A question for the sake of asking~~ - 5/29/2008 8:59:28 AM

RedMagic1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
I think they are bullshit questions and like most of your posts, based off stereotypes, caricatures, and extrapolations of abstract people.

True statement, but getting pissy about it misses the point. We are all mired in limited experience, and bombarded by fantasy from vanilla ads, porn, you name it. Figuring human behavior out is part of personal growth. Steel is (1) not dumb, and (2) actually gives a shit. I try to ignore machismo and convolutions, and just post whatever I think people need to hear, regardless of the question or the topic.

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Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
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(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 40

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