Succeeding as a submissive amongst dominants?

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Valiant -> Succeeding as a submissive amongst dominants? (5/30/2008 11:47:07 AM)
I have been mentoring a young lady who works in the City for the last six months. I knew from the start that she was a submissive, but kept it very professional. In our last two meetings we have acknowldged our respective qualities ie dominant and submissive and talked about how that affects relationships at work. I will stress that she is in a vanilla relationship and we have not even touched more that a cheek kiss for greeting and farewell. For those that are not familiar the City is an environment that rewards dominant behaviour and those males who are not true dominants but want to succeed usualy learn how to effect the style. Her trouble is that while she cannot help but respond with non-verbal signs to these dominant displays, she also wants to be successful and hold her place in that world. As a near 50 year old male dominant there is a limit to what I can share with a 26 year old lady her to help her so I wondered if any submissives or slaves here might have thouights or advice on how she can reconcile being sub AND present the professional personna she sees as being key to success.? Any help will be genuinely appreciated. Thank you.

Bound2One -> RE: Succeeding as a submissive amongst dominants? (5/30/2008 12:11:02 PM)
While I have a submissive personality, I'm not a pushover. I know how to get what I want and need when I am in positions of authority without being overtly dominant and demanding. Submissiveness doesn't mean not being assertive. I tend to ask for what I want done in a nicer way - I request, I don't insist. If I am put in the position of having to insist, I do it. Have you heard of catching more flies with honey than vinegar? That's me. It could be a matter of her level of maturity keeping her from recognizing her own assertiveness - she'll need to figure out what works best for herself. What types of non-verbal cues is she sending out that negate her power?

Valiant -> RE: Succeeding as a submissive amongst dominants? (5/30/2008 12:15:38 PM)
Maturity is probably an issue, but I think it is more about confusion - thinking she has to act as they do. How does she react? Well in my company I know that a look can hold her. Her eyes deepen and her demeanour softens....she stops pushing. She has also confessed to using sex/her sex to getting on, but in doing so she becomes the seducer (a control thing maybe) and while there have been short term gains unltimately the behaviour undermines her self image and self esteem. Make sense?

OmegaG -> RE: Succeeding as a submissive amongst dominants? (5/30/2008 12:38:57 PM)
the way I see it, when in a professional setting one needs to turn off gender/relationship roles. I see the men I work with, not as men that I may have a sexual relationship with but as co-workers, same with women, it's almost as if people are gender neutral. And to say it can't be done-- I work with a man who was once my Dom and I have no problem treating him as an equal, even taking command of a situation when the situation calls for it. I would suggest that she needs to compartmentalize her life and not look at these men as Doms but as human beings, as equals.

eyesopened -> RE: Succeeding as a submissive amongst dominants? (5/30/2008 12:46:52 PM)
Perhaps you could introduce her to the concept of Servant-Leadership. Robert Greenleaf and Stephen Covey have written a lot about it and it is an effective leadership style, in fact, for someone like myself who is submissive, it is a more natural management style. Using sex or sexuality might work for the young and the beautiful. It never worked for me since i've never been pretty in the eyes of society. But i *have* been highly successful in my career even when in male-dominated industries without having to be sexual at all. "Lao Tzu wrote The Tao Te Ching, a strategic treatise on servant leadership: FORTY-NINE The greatest leader forgets himself And attends to the development of others. Good leaders support excellent workers. Great leaders support the bottom ten percent. Great leaders know that The diamond in the rough Is always found “in the rough.” (Quote from The Way of Leading People: Unlocking Your Integral Leadership with the Tao Te Ching.)" Hope this helps.

subtee -> RE: Succeeding as a submissive amongst dominants? (5/30/2008 12:58:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Valiant Maturity is probably an issue, but I think it is more about confusion - thinking she has to act as they do. I would suggest that she acts how she acts, neither donning an ill-fitting dominant garb, nor shedding too much self esteem in order to "get on." She can only maintain what she truly is. She will find a place in which that "works" perfectly.

chamberqueen -> RE: Succeeding as a submissive amongst dominants? (5/30/2008 1:30:01 PM)
I am the foremost expert in field throughout Europe and Asia and am often called there. I am also a slave. I keep my work and my personal life separate. When I am working I am in a dominant position; I am the teacher, the guide, and I was only foolish enough once to use sex to try to get ahead. It left me feeling so disgusted with myself that I went without sex for a year. Each of us carries traits of both dominance and submission. The trick is when to allow which one to rule us.

NorthernGent -> RE: Succeeding as a submissive amongst dominants? (5/30/2008 1:31:50 PM)
The workplace is a zone populated by actors - regardless of orientation. There are unwritten rules of behaviour and a code of ethics that we all must comply with in the event we wish to succeed; I doubt most of us would comply were it not for the carrot dangled in front of us. It's a game; assuming she's in it to win it, she better hone her acting skills or she'll find herself on the wrong end of the pleasure of a bigger, hungrier wolf. More than anything though, it's all in the mind; she must think she can do it.

xxblushesxx -> RE: Succeeding as a submissive amongst dominants? (5/30/2008 1:33:44 PM)
Why the need to label? Give her a bit of guidance if you feel the urge; but she will need to find what works best for her. Give her the same guidance you'd give a 26 year old male you were mentoring, sans the 'gentlemen's club' stuff... One can be very 'dominant' in their public life, and still serve in private, so, perhaps "the city" isn't the place for her. I, personally, don't enjoy such cut-throat environment, and I'm anything but shy and retiring; so, if she is as 'submissive' as you say, she probably won't be very happy there unless she can really turn her personality around to be more aggressive and firm. Also, in order to keep it 'very professional' instead of using words such as 'dominant' and 'submissive', try words such as assertive or diffident.

akisha -> RE: Succeeding as a submissive amongst dominants? (5/30/2008 1:40:24 PM)
Well I'm submissive yet I'd consider myself very successful in my career. I work with about 160 men. Only other female is my office is my assisant. There are other girls in other offices but I rarely have direct interaction with them. I don't see how she would have difficulties. Being submissive and being very good at your job and confident in your abilities are two different things. Some of the guys I work with are well aware of who and what I am, and they respect me and know that if they overstep their place they will get reprimanded for it. Even if it's just a look from me. Being submissive does not mean you submit to anyone and everyone with a more dominant personality. But I'm the type of person that will stand toe to toe with the biggest guy here and refuse to back down if I know I'm right. I'm not required to bow down to anyone except my Master, no one else. Tell her to be confident in herself and her abilities. Never let someone else take credit for anything she's done. Stand her ground and be seen and heard as an equal. But don't be a pushy bitch, cause that gets the complete opposite effect she wants.

NorthernGent -> RE: Succeeding as a submissive amongst dominants? (5/30/2008 1:46:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: akisha Never let someone else take credit for anything she's done. I strongly disagree. This will happen - when you're looking the other way, your boss will take the credit for some of your work. 'Nature of the beast. You can't win every battle; make sure you fight and win the important battles.

akisha -> RE: Succeeding as a submissive amongst dominants? (5/30/2008 2:24:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent quote: ORIGINAL: akisha Never let someone else take credit for anything she's done. I strongly disagree. This will happen - when you're looking the other way, your boss will take the credit for some of your work. 'Nature of the beast. You can't win every battle; make sure you fight and win the important battles. Ok let me expand on my statement, as I agree, the boss tends to take the credit. Never let a co-worker of equal standing that is going for the same position/promotion etc, try and take the credit for work you have done. Don't be the wallflower and step back and alow others to step on you or over you because you are to damn timid to speak up and stand your ground. If you decide you want to work in a cut throat enviroment, you better be ready to stand up for yourself and protect your throat and be willing to view co-workers as competition not freinds. I personally do not like that kind of envioroment. I'm very good at being a cut-throat bitch professionally, unfortunately that peronality trait bleeds over into my personal life and I really don't like that part of myself and refuse to let her exsist anymore. Personal choice. Plus I've found I make about the same about of money but with way less stress.

kallisto -> RE: Succeeding as a submissive amongst dominants? (5/30/2008 2:26:16 PM)
Tough row to hoe, isn't it? Being successful in your professional life, and being successful in your personal life. I agree that it is best to separate the 2. In my work environment, I simply do what has to be done to get the mission/project/goals accomplished. I don't try to figure out if that is being dominant or submissive. I supervise 3 others in my office, yet am Project Manager on many important initiatives. Confidence in myself is key to my success and those around me. Understanding and knowing how to handle people and situations is key.

NorthernGent -> RE: Succeeding as a submissive amongst dominants? (5/30/2008 2:38:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: akisha quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent quote: ORIGINAL: akisha Never let someone else take credit for anything she's done. I strongly disagree. This will happen - when you're looking the other way, your boss will take the credit for some of your work. 'Nature of the beast. You can't win every battle; make sure you fight and win the important battles. Ok let me expand on my statement, as I agree, the boss tends to take the credit. Never let a co-worker of equal standing that is going for the same position/promotion etc, try and take the credit for work you have done. Don't be the wallflower and step back and alow others to step on you or over you because you are to damn timid to speak up and stand your ground. Point taken, but the fact remains you can't win every one of those battles......it doesn't matter how crafty you are....ditto the strength of your argument. If you put yourself upfront for every battle with your colleagues, they'll come to an agreement at your expense. You have to choose your battles wisely. quote: ORIGINAL: akisha If you decide you want to work in a cut throat enviroment, you better be ready to stand up for yourself and protect your throat and be willing to view co-workers as competition not freinds. Agreed, no use in a gazelle wandering into the lions den. quote: ORIGINAL: akisha I personally do not like that kind of envioroment. Agreed. It's total bollocks - human frailty is laid bare in that environment. quote: ORIGINAL: akisha I'm very good at being a cut-throat bitch professionally What goes around comes around - there's always a bigger, hungrier wolf out there. quote: ORIGINAL: akisha I really don't like that part of myself Yeah. In general terms, it's nothing to do with dominance/submission/orientation, and far more concerned with ego and the lust for status. quote: ORIGINAL: akisha but with way less stress. Life should be about enjoyment - not being worked into the ground.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Succeeding as a submissive amongst dominants? (5/30/2008 3:52:00 PM)
My question is, what exactly IS her personality? And why does she feel her personal relationship orientation has anything to do with her personality or her ability to be aggressive, dominant and successful at work?

MasterFireMaam -> RE: Succeeding as a submissive amongst dominants? (5/30/2008 5:17:55 PM)
Separate submissive actions from submissive personality. They are different. Once you get the handle on that, she'll be better able to show a dominant personality, which will help Master Fire

mistoferin -> RE: Succeeding as a submissive amongst dominants? (5/30/2008 6:11:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eyesopened Using sex or sexuality might work for the young and the beautiful. It never worked for me since i've never been pretty in the eyes of society. Total hijack for a moment..... I've seen you say similar things to this before and I just want to say that I don't think you give yourself nearly enough credit. You are a beautiful lady and it just hurts to think that you don't see that in yourself. Ok...back to thread....

kiwisub12 -> RE: Succeeding as a submissive amongst dominants? (5/30/2008 6:34:57 PM)
I am submissive, but put me in my work environment and i am a confident, upfront person. I certainly don't defer to men because they are male. I think your sub needs to get her mind right, and her priorities straight. If she wants to suceed in that environment she needs to realise that the dominant males will take advantage of her every time she lets them - and shame on her. The work place is not the place to go looking for a dom - and this is what it sounds like she is doing. Tell her to get some backbone, and spit in their eye (metaphorically speaking), and take her place in the pecking order. And it doesn't need to be the bottom! The acting at work gets easier the more she does it. after a while it will be second nature for her. edited to add that i work with surgeons, some of the most dominant people i know - and if i were to act deferentially to their dominance, they would walk all over me. Some of them actually like people a lot better if they stand up to them.

Bound2One -> RE: Succeeding as a submissive amongst dominants? (5/30/2008 7:39:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Valiant Maturity is probably an issue, but I think it is more about confusion - thinking she has to act as they do. How does she react? Well in my company I know that a look can hold her. Her eyes deepen and her demeanour softens....she stops pushing. She has also confessed to using sex/her sex to getting on, but in doing so she becomes the seducer (a control thing maybe) and while there have been short term gains unltimately the behaviour undermines her self image and self esteem. Make sense? I'm assuming she's a fairly attractive woman? She's learned how to flirt, use her body and submissiveness to try and get what she wants. Unfortunately, as you've said, there are short-term gains, but she definitely will not be any further ahead in her goals if she continues on this path. She needs to learn to stand on the merits of her intellect and negotiation and reasoning abilities versus using her looks to get what she wants. I find it a somewhat distasteful thing - someone who uses their sexuality and seductiveness rather than their intelligence. I find a person much more worthy of my respect when she respects herself more. A commanding presence simply exists because that person believes in himself/herself so fully that it shows in all of his/her actions. Perhaps she needs more confidence in herself to command the respect she needs to fulfill this role. I'm assuming she's intelligent - she needs to use that if she wants to get ahead and not be the bimbo in the boardroom. She needs to use her intelligence to 'top from below' and get what she wants from the more domineering personalities - not look all sultry and fluster them momentarily while their blood flows to another part of their anatomy. lol If she's smart, she should show it...and learn how to control situations with her intellect. It'll work better in the long run. She's not always going to be cute and 26. [;)] She's probably always used a cute flirty look to get what she wants, from her father on to the boyfriends in college and beyond. It's time to try another tactic and learn some survival skills, I think.

StormsSlave -> RE: Succeeding as a submissive amongst dominants? (5/30/2008 8:06:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kiwisub12 I am submissive, but put me in my work environment and i am a confident, upfront person. I certainly don't defer to men because they are male. I think your sub needs to get her mind right, and her priorities straight. If she wants to suceed in that environment she needs to realise that the dominant males will take advantage of her every time she lets them - and shame on her. The work place is not the place to go looking for a dom - and this is what it sounds like she is doing. Tell her to get some backbone, and spit in their eye (metaphorically speaking), and take her place in the pecking order. And it doesn't need to be the bottom! The acting at work gets easier the more she does it. after a while it will be second nature for her. edited to add that i work with surgeons, some of the most dominant people i know - and if i were to act deferentially to their dominance, they would walk all over me. Some of them actually like people a lot better if they stand up to them. Lifting a glass to you! In my opinion, humble or not, she needs to separate the two. Being subly at work is just dumb. The world is not full of caring, kind dom(mes) who want to take every sub under their wing and care for them. The world is full of all different kinds of people, and many of them are out to take advantage of others. The only way to succeed as a person is to be confident enough to stand up for who you are and what you believe. If not, get a doormat tattooed on your ass and get it over with.

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