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Im right here, where are you ? - 5/31/2008 6:36:24 AM

TysGalilah

Posts: 589
Joined: 11/21/2007
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The scenario:
She
the s-type in this longterm M/sub TPE relationship

    She prides herself on her obedience and service. She is not a brat, not emotionally capable of becoming one because to disappoint or fail to please and need punishment is overwhelmingly upsetting to her.

He
the d-type in the above mentioned long-term relationship, prefers a relationship that accentuates the mental Ds with mental bondage vs physical. His spankings and such are given not in punishment but as part of their way to express their kinky and dark desires and feelings.

He
Because his focus and wants are being met by her complete obedience and compliance, he is completely content with little physical play. He expresses pride in her and love for her....constantly complimenting her that she needs soooo little discipline. So little guidance. So little attention.

He proudly tells anyone who will listen that she knows my needs and tends to them sometimes even before I know I have them. She requires so little for herself and is so self-less in her giving and serving me. His pride in her and in this is something most subs would cherish and treasure.   and, she does.

My question:

is there a point when the service and submission is so automatic that it take very little mastery ( or mastering) to maintain it?    If so, is this a good thing? or a not so good thing? ( in a tpe ms relationship )

Is it possible in a Ms TPE relationship for so much contentment that little discipline is needed?  when it happens is that a BooooYa/wooohoooo moment !     or     an Ut-Oh!! ????

and for the other s-types reading this:
   When do you know when its become complacency and not just something about your level of serving that you can be / need to be        proud of ??

or as will and grace use to short-version it>
   when does it become
I'm right here waiting for you!   to   where the fuck are you?
   ( and OK to ask that last part )

Thanks for any thoughts or experiences you could share
Cyndi



_____________________________

galilah

.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

Post #: 1

RE: Im right here, where are you ? - 5/31/2008 7:02:41 AM

MastersBitch96

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Joined: 5/15/2008
From: Endicott, NY
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Personally, whenever we hit that complacency point, we both prefer then to 'step it up' a notch. Make things harder, more complex, more demanding. I would never feel satisfied with what you described...I'd feel like an automaton....in other words...not feel much of anything. Just the opinion od this 's' type. :) -- Bitch

_____________________________

"I used to do a little but a little wouldn't do it; so the little got more and more"

"Your only validation is in living your own life; vicarious existence is a fucking waste of time."

(in reply to TysGalilah)

Post #: 2

RE: Im right here, where are you ? - 5/31/2008 7:21:03 AM

kyraofMists

Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TysGalilah
is there a point when the service and submission is so automatic that it take very little mastery ( or mastering) to maintain it? If so, is this a good thing? or a not so good thing? ( in a tpe ms relationship )

Is it possible in a Ms TPE relationship for so much contentment that little discipline is needed? when it happens is that a BooooYa/wooohoooo moment ! or an Ut-Oh!! ????

I don't think it is an issue of being in a long-term relationship. In many ways it is a product of the personality of the one submitting, how they work, how they think and process things.

Alandra and I are good examples that time in the relationship is not a factor. It is not often that he has to correct me or point out that I am not on the course he desires me to be on. When it happens it is more correcting my mind set than correcting any physical act that I have done. He and I have been in a relationship for over three years.

Alandra on the other hand, requires more correction than I do in order to stay on the course that he wants. Time-management and multi-tasking are not her strong suits and that creates situations where he is required to refocus her for what he wants accomplished (part of that is due to the sheer volume of tasks that need to be done). She and him have been in a relationship for 21 years in June.

Neither of these are good or bad. She has her strengths and I have mine. My strengths lie in an area that means I need little outside correction in order to get things done. Hers lie in different areas. We have to be managed in different ways and I know that I can see the differences in how he manages us both.

Also, the correction or discipline do not come in the form of physical acts. Play is play and that has nothing to do with correcting something that we have done wrong. The correction is done verbally. When I have to be corrected it is not a pleasant experience for me.

For us, it is not a function of time in the relationship. It is a function of how we work and what our strengths are.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to TysGalilah)

Post #: 3

RE: Im right here, where are you ? - 5/31/2008 7:48:06 AM

TysGalilah

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Joined: 11/21/2007
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Thanks, Mastersbitch, for your thoughts.
You say "you both step it up a notch" ..
what if only one of you (you in this case) sees the complacency??
the other feels content??

_____________________________

galilah

.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

(in reply to MastersBitch96)

Post #: 4

RE: Im right here, where are you ? - 5/31/2008 7:51:31 AM

MasterFireMaam

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From: Charleston, WV
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There's a difference between Mastery that is control and Mastery that is about leadership. The former can fade as there are fewer and fewer new things that need control or correction. The latter is always present if you're doing your job and heading the household in a particular direction.

Master Fire

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The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
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(in reply to TysGalilah)

Post #: 5

RE: Im right here, where are you ? - 5/31/2008 7:58:08 AM

lanie38

Posts: 120
Joined: 9/14/2007
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~FR~

quote:

When do you know when its become complacency and not just something about your level of serving that you can be / need to be proud of ??

Complacency can be dangerous in any type of relationship...I equate it with taking each other for granted...never a good thing.

quote:

is there a point when the service and submission is so automatic that it take very little mastery ( or mastering) to maintain it? If so, is this a good thing? or a not so good thing? ( in a tpe ms relationship )

I never needed much *mastering* not because I'm some uber sub, but rather simply because our expectations were and continue to be on the table. Our relationship is not based on struggle. Are some things more difficult than others? Sure but they don't weigh in as more fulfilling than those that are easier or pleasurable. I made a choice to enter out partnership based on the premise that he leads I follow. And our relationship is not a democrocy. What he expects is for me to do my best..and that's what I deliver...and my best is always a good thing for both of us.

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Don't be so humble...you're not that great. ~ Golda Meir

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 6

RE: Im right here, where are you ? - 5/31/2008 7:59:48 AM

KnightofMists

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I will add a comment to this thread.

Time is indeed of little importance with regards to M/s becoming automatic.

As Kyra pointed out is a question of the Personality types.. or maybe better said would be the characteristics and skills of those involved.

But, it is also a question of the Expectations and Desires of the relationship as well.

When expectations and desires are met with the right characteristics and skills to achieve those expecations and desires.... one will reach contentment. Have few expectations and desires and it will take little to meet them and contentment will be reach quickly. Have strong characterisitics and skills and a person can meet expectations and desires (goals) quicker and contentment sets in.

One of the issues with Alandra was I had alot of expectations and desires.. to some degree alot more than Alandra could effectively obtain. It was like overloading the pack horse with weight and expecting it to keep walking at it's normal pace. I push hard to limit my unrealistic expecations with Alandra over the years.. but sometimes I slip up.. habits can be hard to break when they are established. Kyra has been an instrumental part of my grow in be more effective with Alandra. When Kyra came into my life, I have become much more skilled in matching expectations with capability.

Matching Expectations to Capability is when you can reach Contentment. I still struggle with Alandra at times... I slip into Old habits.

Lastly, Expectations and Capability are not static things. They can and do change. they can go up and down. When they are not in balance.. stress can occur.. for me this is a warning sign to reevaluate the balance... and decide what is going wrong or maybe even right.... sometimes when you push for increased expecatations that demand more skills... stress is going to occur. But, I try not to set someone up to fail... their is postive stress and their is negative stress.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to TysGalilah)

Post #: 7

RE: Im right here, where are you ? - 5/31/2008 8:00:35 AM

TysGalilah

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Joined: 11/21/2007
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Thank you Kyra
I am really glad you chose to respond..I value your perspective.

{Alandra and I are good examples that time in the relationship is not a factor. It is not often that he has to correct me or point out that I am not on the course he desires me to be on. When it happens it is more correcting my mind set than correcting any physical act that I have done. He and I have been in a relationship for over three years. }

Do you ever feel
well....paid less attention to, because Alandra needs more guidance and re-direction than you do?

and
in your example I see KoM's management and desire to bring more from you, ask more of you....give you ways to achieve and grow ( reads serve ). IMO that makes a huge difference in any feeling of complacency on your part I would think.

what if..
( don'cha just love those)
he became so content and happy with you exactly as you are...?
can you see that happening?
how would that effect your dynamic?

you say its a product of the personality of the one serving...
in some ways I do agree...but isn't is also about the personality of the d-type?
KoM strikes me as a man who enjoys pushing the envelopes of anyone and anything around him....
this of course, is based purely on my readings of his posts.

I would think he would not be a "complacent" type person...
or is this more about his understanding of His role as well as yours in the relationship?? and meeting that responsibility with constant actions and demands on you and Alandra.

thanks again for your thoughts..
Cyndi

_____________________________

galilah

.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 8

RE: Im right here, where are you ? - 5/31/2008 8:02:06 AM

TysGalilah

Posts: 589
Joined: 11/21/2007
Status: offline

MasterFireMaam

yes..leadership
thank you

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galilah

.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 9

RE: Im right here, where are you ? - 5/31/2008 8:06:20 AM

TysGalilah

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Joined: 11/21/2007
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Thanks Lanie

what stands out in your post to me is
"what he expects"

what if there were no longer any expectations? voiced. commanded.
is the "standard and known expectation " enough?

_____________________________

galilah

.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

(in reply to lanie38)

Post #: 10

RE: Im right here, where are you ? - 5/31/2008 8:15:41 AM

Bound2One

Posts: 614
Joined: 1/11/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TysGalilah

Thanks Lanie

what stands out in your post to me is
"what he expects"

what if there were no longer any expectations? voiced. commanded.
is the "standard and known expectation " enough?

So perhaps what you're saying here is that the submission doesn't feel active and alive - it feels assumed and possibly taken for granted. But only on the submissive's part because the dom feels things are going just fine.

I wouldn't be happy with 'standard and known expectations'. I would want to know that while I am actively taking care of my duties, he is also actively acknowledging same - not asking for praise for every move, but a pat on the head goes a long way. And then I'd hope he would shake things up every now and again so that I stayed sharp for him. It just sounds rather boring and ho-hum for everything to sail smoothly on every count without added challenges or goals. The dom is feeling complacent because things have been made very easy for him. I think perhaps the s-type needs to explain how she needs further challenges to keep her mind active and engaged.

(in reply to TysGalilah)

Post #: 11

RE: Im right here, where are you ? - 5/31/2008 8:25:13 AM

TysGalilah

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Joined: 11/21/2007
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Thank you, KoM for responding

{When expectations and desires are met with the right characteristics and skills to achieve those expecations and desires.... one will reach contentment. Have few expectations and desires and it will take little to meet them and contentment will be reach quickly. Have strong characterisitics and skills and a person can meet expectations and desires (goals) quicker and contentment sets in. }

if I am reading this correctly, You feel reaching contentment is a good and positive goal. Yes?

contentment as in balance, comfort, less stress << I am all for that for sure

You also mention expectations and capability.
if the leadership and expectations fade..the challenges disappear because of contentment ( comfort ) ...how and when do you see this becoming a detriment and/or a positive?
is there a cut off point?

to some who love to serve > expectations of = desire for

to some>
challenges are an avenue for the s-type to show and give service and devotion.
what if the contentment and comfort put up roadblocks to the avenue of serving and being served.

do you see this as a failure or character defect in the s-types ability to acquiesce.?? is her desire for challenge and commands/demands a sign of .....of what????

my questions are not confrontational, I admittedly am picking your brain because I am trying to understand, and I feel you are someone who really might be able to help me with this.

thanks

_____________________________

galilah

.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 12

RE: Im right here, where are you ? - 5/31/2008 8:32:07 AM

TysGalilah

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Joined: 11/21/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bound2One

quote:

ORIGINAL: TysGalilah

Thanks Lanie

what stands out in your post to me is
"what he expects"

what if there were no longer any expectations? voiced. commanded.
is the "standard and known expectation " enough?

So perhaps what you're saying here is that the submission doesn't feel active and alive - it feels assumed and possibly taken for granted. But only on the submissive's part because the dom feels things are going just fine.

I wouldn't be happy with 'standard and known expectations'. I would want to know that while I am actively taking care of my duties, he is also actively acknowledging same - not asking for praise for every move, but a pat on the head goes a long way. And then I'd hope he would shake things up every now and again so that I stayed sharp for him. It just sounds rather boring and ho-hum for everything to sail smoothly on every count without added challenges or goals. The dom is feeling complacent because things have been made very easy for him. I think perhaps the s-type needs to explain how she needs further challenges to keep her mind active and engaged.

{So perhaps what you're saying here is that the submission doesn't feel active and alive - it feels assumed and possibly taken for granted. But only on the submissive's part because the dom feels things are going just fine. }

Yes.. yes...

_____________________________

galilah

.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

(in reply to Bound2One)

Post #: 13

RE: Im right here, where are you ? - 5/31/2008 8:41:00 AM

kiwisub12

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My Sir and i are at the contentment level. He doesn't feel the need to correct me, and i am really fine with that, since correctment would imply that i am being deficient in my duties and responsibilities. I don't feel ignored or taken for granted, i feel that i am upholding my part of our bargin. i would rather play than be punished - which is what would happen if i needed to be repremanded. and i hate to feel as if i am not doing my best.

there is no part of "the brat" in me - i do my best to do my best at all times, and my Sir is very understanding, so we have a quiet and happy life together.
I don't feel taken for granted, because my Sir pays me the best of attention - he loves to pet and beat and pinch me, and pays me verbal compliaments frequently.
Basically, i thrive on positive attention - not negative attention, so i do my duties to gain the positive attention. Got to love the positive attention!

(in reply to TysGalilah)

Post #: 14

RE: Im right here, where are you ? - 5/31/2008 8:44:02 AM

lanie38

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Joined: 9/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TysGalilah

Thanks Lanie

what stands out in your post to me is
"what he expects"

what if there were no longer any expectations? voiced. commanded.
is the "standard and known expectation " enough?

We don't have a lot of rules and protocols...but that being said the ones that are in place have been discussed and I've agreed to follow...no need to constantly *voice* or *command* them...I manage to retain info pretty well, and I don't need him to reiterate them for me to feel fulfilled, I'm confident in my submission, I don't require praise for something that's expected of me...anything new comes along he lets me know..easy as that...no need to lead me by the nose ya know...I'm a willing participant in this...

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Don't be so humble...you're not that great. ~ Golda Meir

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Post #: 15

RE: Im right here, where are you ? - 5/31/2008 8:51:00 AM

Missokyst

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In general I love spoiling my men. Cooking, ironing, waiting on my mate comes pretty natural to me. But this post sort of opened my eyes to why things tend to wane for me after 7 yrs or so. There is a definite complacency that happens when things are smooth. If there are no issues, no challenges, no changes, pretty soon this is more or less that idealised 50's tv fantasy life.
And omg.. that bores the heck out of me, I can only imagine what that must feel like for guys.
At around 5 yrs I start to look at my partner and though I continue to spoil them it seems to come more from habit than devotion.
I start to feel dissatisfaction and a slowly creeping loneliness. If I really like my mate, I will bring this up (then I hope he really likes me too), if not things will die. More than likely they are feeling that same sense of "there must be more".
I thrive on learning new things because my passion lies in constantly evolving. This is true acedemically, creatively, and in all parts of my life. Until now I never considered that it might carry over into my love life.
Thanks for your post.
Andrea

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pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley

(in reply to TysGalilah)

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RE: Im right here, where are you ? - 5/31/2008 9:11:34 AM

TysGalilah

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so we have a quiet and happy life together

Thanks Kiwi and continued happiness to you both : )

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galilah

.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

(in reply to kiwisub12)

Post #: 17

RE: Im right here, where are you ? - 5/31/2008 9:19:16 AM

Bound2One

Posts: 614
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TysGalilah
He
Because his focus and wants are being met by her complete obedience and compliance, he is completely content with little physical play. He expresses pride in her and love for her....constantly complimenting her that she needs soooo little discipline. So little guidance. So little attention.

I went back to your original post to try and see this issue more clearly. This paragraph stood out to me. He is content with little physical play and giving little guidance, attention and discipline to her. But she isn't happy with that. I wouldn't be either. I'm fine not receiving discipline - hell, I'm not a brat and hate screwing up and hate receiving discipline, even when it's most necessary. But if I weren't receiving the guidance and attention I thrive on, nor the physical play I desire, I wouldn't be a happy camper at all.

I wouldn't think he would be happy with changes because he's quite content and his needs are being met. But I'd think some serious talking needs to be done to clear the air and to make clear to him that his submissive's needs aren't being met and steps need to be taken to correct that.

(in reply to TysGalilah)

Post #: 18

RE: Im right here, where are you ? - 5/31/2008 9:30:43 AM

hejira92

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From: Palm Beach County, Fl
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Master showers me with attention and tells me how wonderful it is to own a good girl. And I am like previous posters in that I cringe even at the thought of disappointing Him, let alone receiving a reprimand.

How can we talk of complacency when all is going so well and I feel so loved?

I know this dilemma.

What I have done is quietly explain to Master my feelings and my cravings for more play, more limit-pushing, fear inducing, curiosity arousing, adventure. He explains that life sometimes gets in the way of living, but He listens and takes my feelings into account. He has scheduled specific play time weeks in advance, both to make sure life lets us have fun and to build anticipation in me. We are planning on exploring public play soon- and that scares and excites the hell out of me.

Basically, my answer is the same as so many answers here- communication, communication, communication.

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(in reply to TysGalilah)

Post #: 19

RE: Im right here, where are you ? - 5/31/2008 9:39:23 AM

DiurnalVampire

Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TysGalilah

My question:

is there a point when the service and submission is so automatic that it take very little mastery ( or mastering) to maintain it? If so, is this a good thing? or a not so good thing? ( in a tpe ms relationship )

For me, at least, this is the goal of a good TPE relationship. I should not have to micromanage everything that goes on all the time. There are things that he should (and has) been able to learn to take care of without interventon. I do not like to have to discipline someone for misbehaving or doing things wrong. With Fox and I, the only 'punishment' is during playtime. I have never had to seriously discipline either boy, only one minor transgression by Angel nearly a year ago.
My not having to command things every moment doesnt make me less Dominant or him less submissive. It simply means he has learned the parts of the relationship that are not going to change and we cna concentrate on the parts that are more fluid and dynamic rather than the standing bits.

DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to TysGalilah)

Post #: 20

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