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RE: Imagine there's no Army... it's easy if you try... - 6/1/2008 6:54:39 AM

Irishknight

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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

No Army?
But then Obama couldn't fight , "genocides in Africa."

Did I miss another ridiculous campaign promise while I was out trying to have a life?

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RE: Imagine there's no Army... it's easy if you try... - 6/1/2008 6:58:48 AM

christine1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

No Army?
But then Obama couldn't fight , "genocides in Africa."

Did I miss another ridiculous campaign promise while I was out trying to have a life?

you have a life? luckyduck!

although pretty much all you have to do is blink and you miss a campaign promise from one of the "big 3"

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RE: Imagine there's no Army... it's easy if you try... - 6/1/2008 7:19:23 AM

kittinSol

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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

I mean what does "genocides in Africa" have to do with the U.S.?

Perhaps they have to do with the US that they're largely funded by American arms manufacturers and that American corporations directly profit from them?

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RE: Imagine there's no Army... it's easy if you try... - 6/1/2008 9:45:37 AM

FirmhandKY

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

Thank you, John, that was lovely.

So, just, you know, THEORETICALLY SPEAKING, what if the US had hardly or no military at all?

For defense, we have a militia with 200 MILLION guns. That's more than all the largest armies put together. Invade us? Haw haw haw haw good luck.

We have DHS keeping us safe with color alerts and airport idiots.

There's the Coast Guard, for when Al Queida or drunken Siberian fisherman cross into our territorial waters.

Maybe we keep a skeleton crew to launch a couple hundred MIRVed nukes, but that's trivial.

SO what do we need a military for?

The US has had time periods in which it had - in effect - no military, other than as you suggest.

Didn't exactly work out.

If we didn't have a professionally manned, trained, equipped and lead military, what would be the result?

Speaking German as our native language? Or Japanese? Or Russian? Or Chinese? Or Spanish (oh, wait ...)

Study of the Koran as the path to the future?

Realistiscally, the transfer of the costs of funding a military budget, if switched to even more social programs, makes not a bit of difference in the long run to the "betterment" of the overall, long term social fabric of a civilization, but it does open up that society and civilization to the influences of other, more militant nations and civilizations.

I guess the question you are really asking, is "Wouldn't America be a better place if it were no longer America?"

Firm

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RE: Imagine there's no Army... it's easy if you try... - 6/1/2008 9:52:36 AM

FullCircle

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Maybe we'd still be speaking English?

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RE: Imagine there's no Army... it's easy if you try... - 6/1/2008 10:12:44 AM

Archer

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kittenSole, you havent looked at the weapons the African counrties actually use have you????
They use AK style rifles, they use RPGs and their small armor capabilities all seem to have old soviet designations.
So the charge of US arms manufacturing companiesmaking the money falls contrary to the evidence on the ground.

Try China an the organized crime groups in the old soviet states for the providers of weapons to Africa.
So much for the Blame the US First attempt.

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RE: Imagine there's no Army... it's easy if you try... - 6/1/2008 10:23:14 AM

Alumbrado

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quote:

So much for the Blame the US First attempt.

You misspelled 'addiction'. And sadly, facts are no cure.

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RE: Imagine there's no Army... it's easy if you try... - 6/1/2008 10:28:52 AM

MstrObjectmaker

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Short answer......

You need a large military to buy all those super duper new high prescision weaponry.
Thats another reason for invading sovreign countries on the pretext of saving the people from themselves, everytime you use those weapons you need to replace them, which means you buy them from your home based military contractors who employ your compatriots to make them.

Money, Money, Money!!!

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RE: Imagine there's no Army... it's easy if you try... - 6/1/2008 10:42:17 AM

Asherdelampyr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

We could do away with a huge standing army if everyone in this country would serve in a reserve force. In that case, we would not be able to invade other countries at a moment's notice but all of the whiners would have to shoulder their portion of the load. Being able to call up every man and woman between the ages of 18 and 60 would even make the chinese war machine think twice.
The bonus is that every weekend there would be men and women in uniform for all of us to gaze upon. Some of the ladies look really tasty in their uniforms too. Yummy.

yeah, this was tried once, about 500 years ago or so... as I recall, it didnt work out so well, being as how there were so many people that just didnt feel like trying to support thier country in a time of war...
barely trained militia does not protection make...

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RE: Imagine there's no Army... it's easy if you try... - 6/1/2008 11:22:39 AM

LotusSong

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Remember "What if they gave a war and nobody came"?

(Testosterone. It's a terrible thing to waste.)

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RE: Imagine there's no Army... it's easy if you try... - 6/1/2008 11:40:09 AM

FullCircle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
kittenSole, you havent looked at the weapons the African counrties actually use have you????
They use AK style rifles, they use RPGs and their small armor capabilities all seem to have old soviet designations.
So the charge of US arms manufacturing companiesmaking the money falls contrary to the evidence on the ground.

Try China an the organized crime groups in the old soviet states for the providers of weapons to Africa.
So much for the Blame the US First attempt.

I don't know about Africa but the US is the major exporter of weapons and those weapons are ending up somewhere. A lot of them go to the middle-east though. Iraq is becoming a major importer, how nice to know some of that money spent on the Iraq war can be recouped by arms sales to the new and improved/approved Iraqi government. If you don't sniff the stench of immorality in that you are not bothering to look because you don’t want to.

As I previously said war is business.

http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Top_News/2008/05/22/iraq_becoming_a_top_us_arms_buyers/8406/

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RE: Imagine there's no Army... it's easy if you try... - 6/1/2008 11:55:19 AM

FullCircle

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On Africa

quote:

In 1998 alone, U.S. weapons to Africa totaled $12.5 million, including substantial deliveries to Chad, Namibia, and Zimbabwe – all now backing Kabila. On the rebel side, Uganda received nearly $1.5 million in weaponry over the past two years, and Rwanda was importing U.S. weapons as late as 1993 (one year before the brutal genocide erupted). U.S. military transfers in the form of direct government-to-government weapons deliveries, commercial sales, and IMET training to the states directly involved has totaled more than $125 million since the end of the Cold War (see Tables 1 and 2.) [18]

http://www.worldpolicy.org/projects/arms/reports/congo.htm#table1

See the information is out there you just have to let your fingers and your conscience do the walking.

I'm sure other counties were also involved but you can't wash your hands of it all just because of that.

< Message edited by FullCircle -- 6/1/2008 11:58:00 AM >

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RE: Imagine there's no Army... it's easy if you try... - 6/1/2008 12:25:38 PM

Irishknight

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Asherdelampyr

yeah, this was tried once, about 500 years ago or so... as I recall, it didnt work out so well, being as how there were so many people that just didnt feel like trying to support thier country in a time of war...
barely trained militia does not protection make...

I'm not talking about a barely trained militia. I'm talking about an organized and trained reserve force. Everyone would have basic training and monthly drills just like the guard and reserves do now. There would be a tiny contingent of full timers around to keep up the training and the paperwork.
When you look at how many reservists and guard members are serving overseas right now, I'd hardly say that they would be an ineffective force.
And, if you refused to serve, you go to jail. If EVERYBODY has to do it then there is no excuse for getting out of it.

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RE: Imagine there's no Army... it's easy if you try... - 6/1/2008 12:44:13 PM

slaveboyforyou

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quote:

I don't know about Africa but the US is the major exporter of weapons and those weapons are ending up somewhere. A lot of them go to the middle-east though. Iraq is becoming a major importer, how nice to know some of that money spent on the Iraq war can be recouped by arms sales to the new and improved/approved Iraqi government. If you don't sniff the stench of immorality in that you are not bothering to look because you don’t want to.

As I previously said war is business.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_dealer#World.27s_Largest_Arms_Exporters

We are the largest arms exporters, but we are definitely not the only ones. Russia, the U.K., Germany, and France are all in the top 10. So it's absolute nonsense to blame us for all the worlds problems.

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RE: Imagine there's no Army... it's easy if you try... - 6/1/2008 12:46:01 PM

Asherdelampyr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

quote:

ORIGINAL: Asherdelampyr

yeah, this was tried once, about 500 years ago or so... as I recall, it didnt work out so well, being as how there were so many people that just didnt feel like trying to support thier country in a time of war...
barely trained militia does not protection make...

I'm not talking about a barely trained militia. I'm talking about an organized and trained reserve force. Everyone would have basic training and monthly drills just like the guard and reserves do now. There would be a tiny contingent of full timers around to keep up the training and the paperwork.
When you look at how many reservists and guard members are serving overseas right now, I'd hardly say that they would be an ineffective force.
And, if you refused to serve, you go to jail. If EVERYBODY has to do it then there is no excuse for getting out of it.

that could be workable... and maybe a better deal than what we got now, but what would we do with all the soldiers we got doing full-time now? we cant employ all the civvies we got

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RE: Imagine there's no Army... it's easy if you try... - 6/1/2008 12:49:26 PM

Alumbrado

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Bingo....

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RE: Imagine there's no Army... it's easy if you try... - 6/1/2008 12:57:05 PM

FullCircle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou
We are the largest arms exporters, but we are definitely not the only ones. Russia, the U.K., Germany, and France are all in the top 10. So it's absolute nonsense to blame us for all the worlds problems.

We will weigh the U.S. responsibility accordingly as a percentage of completed transactions then. If say 40% of global arms sales are done by the U.S. we shall make them 40% responsible.

< Message edited by FullCircle -- 6/1/2008 12:58:39 PM >

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RE: Imagine there's no Army... it's easy if you try... - 6/1/2008 1:03:00 PM

meatcleaver

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Bloated militaries, stupid foreign adventures and over extending oneself at the expense of the economy is the normal way for an empire to bring itself down. I'm surprised no one in the Whitehouse has understood this. The US is weakening now but it refuses to acknowledge it and remedy the problem and sees enemies in every shadow. I guess this is the problem of being at the top of the pile. In the immortal words of King Louie
Now I'm the king of the swingers
Oh, the jungle VIP
I've reached the top and had to stop
And that's what botherin' me
It is impossible to invade the US because of its geographical isolation. OK I'm assuming Mexico and Canada aren't planning anything. All the US needs is a defensive force instead of its current imperial military.

With a military budget the size of the aggregate sum of the next thirteen largest military spenders, the US is more interested in its interests abroad than its citizens back home. Katrina exposed the US state's priorities and its poor are bottom of the list. Not unusual in that for an imperial power.

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RE: Imagine there's no Army... it's easy if you try... - 6/1/2008 1:04:03 PM

Alumbrado

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Is that what they call specious reasoning?

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RE: Imagine there's no Army... it's easy if you try... - 6/1/2008 1:07:28 PM

Evility

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster
So, just, you know, THEORETICALLY SPEAKING, what if the US had hardly or no military at all?

My guess is that any time I purchased an electronic device the various languages that the manual was printed in would include German and that French would be conspicuously absent.

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