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RE: domestic ??? - 6/3/2008 2:05:00 PM

slavegirljoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

My own assessment is that the HUGE focus on spanking and various other forms of corporal tells the tale. Honestly, if this isn't about kink, then how often do you really need to punish your partner? And if it's that much, has it occurred to you that somethign is wrong?

DD is about the head of household having the Right to use corporal punishment on their spouse. It's not about having to use it all the time, often or, ever. It's about being able to spank your spouse, as an agreed upon part of the relationship paramaters. Why, when, and how the corporal punishment is used is decided by each couple.

Some couples don't need to use corporal punishment very often or ever. But, the option to use it is always present. What isn't present, in a DD relationship, is the use of corporal punishment for the sexual excitement that kinky spanking/discipline have. It's purpose is for discipline only, not for getting a hard-on.

If the spanking is used for getting turned-on, it's not DD. It's kink. There's the difference.

The reason that i left DD, after dabbling in it for a bit, in between my BD/SM, Vanilla, then back to BD/SM relationships, was because i missed the kink element. DD offered me the Domination that i was looking for, although still not to the level that i was needing, which i have found in my current TPE relationship, but there was no kink, zero, zilch, nada. Maybe some DD relationships also include kink, just like some 'vanilla' relationships include some kink but, that still doesn't change them into 'kink-based' relationships.

joy
Owned servant of Master David

< Message edited by slavegirljoy -- 6/3/2008 2:26:48 PM >

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RE: domestic ??? - 6/3/2008 3:10:34 PM

leadership527

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* content removed due to pointlessness, doing my part to save an electron *

< Message edited by leadership527 -- 6/3/2008 3:14:48 PM >

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RE: domestic ??? - 6/3/2008 3:15:56 PM

cantilena

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You know, by consesus, this thread really is about domestic discipline as it is meant in the larger application... I move to just set aside any notion of this WHAP inference and carry on. OP, if you have an issue with that, please do chime in, k?

So that said, I'd like to add a few thoughts again, if I may. Not to argue, but to discuss. We may not all agree, but that's okay.

I'll preface further by saying that (contrary to previous suggestions) I have no 'agenda'. That's laughable, because frankly I too am no longer in a relationship anyone could characterize as DD.

I'd also like to preface the discussion by saying that I think we can all agree people can and should characterize their own relationships however they see them. Maybe that means kink, maybe not. Maybe it means following Jesus, maybe not. Maybe it means what-have-you. To them. No argument - ever - from me on that.

My comments aren't really about the individual relationships, then, but more about DD as a group, or as a subset of a group, or as a 'community' if you will. Setting aside the individual relationships, I believe the group as a whole is large enough to draw some fundamental descriptions. Not all people who say they are DD fall into that - granted. But enough people DO fall into the general description that basic observations can be made.

Now, in my own experience, I haven't run across a whole lot of examples where the right to adminster punishment - whatever that punishment might be - exists but where enforcement never happens. I'm not saying it's not out there (I'm certain it is, just like every other flavor of human), but I am willing to state that it's not very common. The fact remains that as a *group*, - excluding outliers all groups have - spanking is typically very fundamental to the dynamic. Granted, many of the spankings are serious business indeed within the couples' framework and it is true that these sessions commonly do not end in sex. I've heard many, many, many people discuss that fact elsewhere.

Yet.... In the next breath... The breath right after describing a non-sexual, serious, punishment spanking that left them full of remorse... These SAME folks will giggle on about 'good girl' spankings and about how their sex life suddenly became full of energy again after 20 years of dullsville. I'm sure a lot of folks don't like to draw the correlation between getting their bare ass spanked beet red and a sudden nuclear detonation in the bedroom. And that's cool. For them. But on the whole, for that faction within DD, and this is only my opinion, but I find that behavior really disingenuous. Especially because this same group AS A WHOLE contain some of the most narrow-minded people I've ever come across. Not all. No way not all. But some. I've heard some women wax poetic for pages about every spanko 'implement' ever created, but the second someone mentions a butt plug it's all over. GASP. That's obscene... we don't do that.

And that's the issue I have with the DD crowd as a group. If you're getting a charge from the spanking going on, whether it's delayed or not, I don't understand why there's such discomfort calling it a kink... or part of BDSM... What's wrong with kink? What's wrong with BDSM? Why is it such a problem for those folks?

Ay yayayayaya..... I really don't mean to offend. I speak passionately about this only because I still can't get my brain around it... If someone can explain it to me, my mind is open, believe me.

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RE: domestic ??? - 6/3/2008 3:17:05 PM

cantilena

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

* content removed due to pointlessness, doing my part to save an electron *

Why pointless? To my knowledge, this area hasn't really been beat so much to death...

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RE: domestic ??? - 6/3/2008 3:23:38 PM

camille65

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pinksugarsub

Dunno if i should ask questions here, or start a new thread.

Thought "domestic discipline" meant having someone do extra chores as a form of punishment; is that totally wrong?

What is a "domestic slave" or "domestic sub"? Is it someone who cooks and cleans but never plays or has sex?

What is a "service sub"?

i'll start another thread if Y/you guys think it'd be better.

pinksugarsub

Yes DD is different from service submission and domestic slavery.I keep meaning to ask, pss would you mind making your font either smaller or darker? Tis very very hard to read that bright pink.

_____________________________

~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).

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RE: domestic ??? - 6/3/2008 10:21:01 PM

slavegirljoy

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Your point of view is well stated and understood. But, the same could be said for most any group, including this one. In any group, there are people with diverse tastes and reasons for including themselves in that group. Not everyone in this "BD/SM" group is into S&M. Many, who consider themselves to be in a BD/SM relationship, state emphatically that they are not a masochist and they don't do pain.

There are plenty of people in this group who have said that there's no way any object is going to be shoved-up there butt, no way, no how. Same goes for drinking pee or being peed on -- oh, no, forget that, it ain't gonna happen. Being spit on or slapped in the face? Nope, not for some people in this kinky group.

In fact, there isn't a kink, that i have ever seen mentioned on this site, that hasn't had as many who would never do it as there are people who, not only do it but, love it.

So, does that make the people in this group, who don't do this or that kink, not really 'kinky', after all? Not from my point of view.

Like we have both said, the people within a relationship are the ones who get to decide what their relationship is and how it will function and what term(s) they choose to use to describe it.

If someone wants to call their relationship, "The Disciples of Discipline", so what? That doesn't mean that they are trying to be 'holier than thou' or anything else. They might be but, how do you know, unless you happen to know that couple very well?

Besides, there are plenty of people on this site who have an air of "superiority" about them. There have been times when people have said that about me. So what? Their perception isn't my truth.

i have been told, by some on this site, that using the term, TPE, to identify the type of relationship my Master and i have is wrong. Some people don't like that term, don't believe in it and think it's a false term and they have all sorts of perceptions about what my relationship with my Master 'really' is, blah, blah, blah. Does that mean that their perception is true about my relationship with my Master? No. And, does that mean that He and i are going to lose any sleep over what other people think or that we are going to change our relationship or stop using the term, TPE, in describing it, just because some people have an objection to it? No.

Just because some people choose to identify with a term that is different from the one you (or anyone else) thinks they should be using, doesn't mean that they are trying to be better than you or anyone else. If that's the perception that you have, that's on you, not on them.

We can't control how others perceive us. We can only control how we present ourselves.
Like i said before, it's my opinion that if the corporal punishment is done for the express purpose of getting turned-on, then, i don't see it as being a strictly DD relationship. But, that's my perception of it and that's not necessarily what the reality of their relationship is.

Just because a person happens to get sexually excited by something, such as being spanked, doesn't necessarily mean that doing it was intended to be sexually exciting and, that doesn't automatically make the act 'kinky'. Hey, i get turned-on by discovering a really good multipurpose spray cleaner? Does that mean that i'm not really cleaning but, i'm really just being 'kinky' and, i'm trying to pass myself off as just a conscientious housekeeper and not a kinkster? (Huh?)

Well, any way, the OP wasn't asking about the merits or faults of a Domestic Discipline relationship or whether or not people think it's a false term or anything other than wanting an explanation about what it is.

People can draw their own conclusions about whether DD is 'really just kink in disguise' or not. But, whatever opinions others have about DD, it's not likely to change any DD relationships.

By the way, this group hasn't cornered the market on 'pure unadulterated intentions', either.

joy
Owned servant of Master David

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RE: domestic ??? - 6/4/2008 6:17:41 AM

cantilena

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joy, I actually think we're on the exact same page, but coming at it from slightly different angles.

As a matter of fact, I agree with just about everything you just wrote, so it sort of feels like we're having this huge debate where one really doesn't exist so much.

I'm not a big fan of labels either, and I get what you're saying about how it always gets really tricky when people try to define things. Especially something as complex as human interaction or human sexuality.

I do think it goes a bit back to how one views Dominance and submission and BDSM as a whole. If those terms are sexualized in your point of view, and your dominant/submissive activities are not sexualized... yes, I see where that would be a major sticking point. In point of fact, for me personally, I don't necessarily see the term D/s or BDSM as sexualized at all. I see them more as blanket ideas to cover a HUGE myriad of relationship styles... some with sex... some without sex.... Yet this I do believe is the fundamental reason I have a hard time not putting DD in with the rest of the alphabet soup.

FWIW, this has been a great conversation joy.

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RE: domestic ??? - 6/4/2008 6:28:28 AM

cantilena

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy

Hey, i get turned-on by discovering a really good multipurpose spray cleaner? Does that mean that i'm not really cleaning but, i'm really just being 'kinky' and, i'm trying to pass myself off as just a conscientious housekeeper and not a kinkster?

Yes. I'm afraid it does.

But... could you pass along the name of the spray cleaner sometime? I get turned on by that too.

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RE: domestic ??? - 6/4/2008 7:08:50 AM

slavegirljoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cantilena

Yes. I'm afraid it does.

But... could you pass along the name of the spray cleaner sometime? I get turned on by that too.

In that case, it seems to me that the vast majority of the human race can be classified as 'kinky', since most people get turned-on by one thing or another that has nothing to do with sex. For some, it's cars. For others, it's music or, food or, hooking a big fish or, getting a great bargain at the store. Kinky isn't always about sex, i guess.

The cleaner is Arm & Hammer (a brand i have been in love with for the past 30 years or so). It's called "SCRUB FREE" with bleach and it's fantastic. From now on, i'm buying it by the six pack. You spray it on your shower, tub, sink, toilet, countertop, stove, etc. and walk away. Come back a few minutes later and they are sparkling clean, without ever having to use a scrubber or cloth. i even used it in the microwave and, voila, sparkling white in minutes. i do rinse it off but, no wiping or scrubbing. Enjoy!

joy
Owned servant of Master David

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RE: domestic ??? - 6/4/2008 4:14:14 PM

Strongmindbody

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quote:

In that case, it seems to me that the vast majority of the human race can be classified as 'kinky', since most people get turned-on by one thing or another that has nothing to do with sex. .... Kinky isn't always about sex, i guess.

Wow, this is one great, wacky thread!!! I have to admit I find our fascination with this stuff (mine included) endlessly amusing

Some personal observations of rl people who were probably "defined" as DD:

- Most subs craved that emotional release that came from being punished and therefore absolved of wrongdoing that symbolized "not being good enough".
- Spanking was the punishment of choice because it related back to childhood, and many can trace the kink to about age 5.
- Many subs don't directly associate the punishment with sex (maybe due to the childhood connection), but for most it does make for a kind of great make-up sex.
- As for no sexual connection, it isn't exclusive to DD. There is, in fact, a current thread kinda like that on this board.
- I often heard of DD subs needing a "spanking fix" if they went too long without it. Kinda like another thread on this board about needing to push a reset button. Sorry, but that's kink, not a belief in the natural order of relationships.
- I have heard any number of comments that DD represents either 1) the natural relationship between a man (head of household) and a woman or 2) the natural supremacy of women over men. Pick your belief and hold onto it tight!
- I have never met anyone into DD who associated it with religion, but I'm sure they are out there.

Bottom line: as far as I can tell, it's almost all kink, just manifested in yet another of the astonishing wrinkles that make BDSM (or BDSMlite?) so crazy fun. Labels just fail miserably to do much more than cause argument. At the end of the day, we all just do the stuff that works for us.

And to be clear about where I come from, I'm not a big DD guy. But I guess I can cop to enjoying DD as role playing (yeah, it can be fun scolding a naughty girl wearing a plaid skirt - I won't lie!). Still I have to agree with some of the comments here that the DD scene also has its share of true believers. But then, so does this site :)

Ok, that's my useless contribution for the day...

JB

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