RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (Full Version)

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kittinSol -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/5/2008 9:42:15 PM)

If we're quick we can elope somewhere more quiet - there's a fight brewing here I can sense it, the characters and they speak loud.

[sm=whisper.gif]




atursvcMaam -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/5/2008 10:16:23 PM)

We seem  to be disturbing the kids and their root beer (my apologies) just a thought...if a cutie like that offers to elope with you, you might want to jump. and psst she's smart, too.




slvemike4u -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/5/2008 10:18:31 PM)

It would seem funny that those on the right can dismiss so easily the questionable behavior of Republicans,while simultaneously holding Democrats to an exacting standard....curious to say the least




celticlord2112 -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/5/2008 10:20:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

It would seem funny that those on the right can dismiss so easily the questionable behavior of Republicans,while simultaneously holding Democrats to an exacting standard....curious to say the least

You have that backwards.  Democrats and liberals are the self-acknowledged (and self-righteous) masters of the double standard.....




atursvcMaam -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/5/2008 10:33:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

It would seem funny that those on the right can dismiss so easily the questionable behavior of Republicans,while simultaneously holding Democrats to an exacting standard....curious to say the least


i think that either side can do that  in a bundle of ways.










DomAviator -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/5/2008 10:33:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

DA I'm not calling him a deserter I know the evidence does not support it but his jacket does contain incontravertible proof of his felony and it is covered by the charges of Dereliction and Failure to Obey. Namely his loss of flight status. It was definitely his duty to maintain his flight status and he was definitely under orders to get a physical before losing flight status. That he didn't get the physical and did not maintain flight status definitely makes him derelict in his duty and definitely means he failed to obey a lawful order.

If you're honest you'll say what would happen to any military pilot who lost flight status because he refused to get his annual flight physical.


I was never in the Air National Guard so I cannot say. However, in the US Navy flight status is voluntary. You can refuse to fly at any time... HOWEVER, you will still incur your obligated service, and if I recall correctly it will be extended. (When I went in my contract called for 8 years, and I THINK (remember I didnt quit so this isnt something I memorized beyond hearing it in a briefing of 10 min in API years ago) if you voluntarily quit flying with less than six served you had your obligated service extended from 8 to 12 years.) Ie - you couldnt "get out" and sell what they taught you to Continental Airways but you could go to a non-flying billet on request but you owed them another four years... (While hardly an accurate reflection of Naval Aviation, hence the scene in Top Gun where the pilot handed in his wings after the bad trap... He doesnt get out of the Navy but he goes to non flying status.) Naval Aviators are "unrestricted line" officers... so if you give up flying you can get any line officer billet. Also, most of us were as I said science, math, or engineering grads so you could transfer to an engineering job etc...) To the best of my knowledge it is the same in the USAF so I would assume it to be the same in the TANG. Pilots are volunteers, like submariners, EOD, and divers...




DomKen -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/5/2008 10:37:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomAviator

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

DA I'm not calling him a deserter I know the evidence does not support it but his jacket does contain incontravertible proof of his felony and it is covered by the charges of Dereliction and Failure to Obey. Namely his loss of flight status. It was definitely his duty to maintain his flight status and he was definitely under orders to get a physical before losing flight status. That he didn't get the physical and did not maintain flight status definitely makes him derelict in his duty and definitely means he failed to obey a lawful order.

If you're honest you'll say what would happen to any military pilot who lost flight status because he refused to get his annual flight physical.


I was never in the Air National Guard so I cannot say. However, in the US Navy flight status is voluntary. You can refuse to fly at any time... HOWEVER, you will still incur your obligated service, and if I recall correctly it will be extended. (When I went in my contract called for 8 years, and I THINK (remember I didnt quit so this isnt something I memorized beyond hearing it in a briefing of 10 min in API years ago) if you voluntarily quit flying with less than six served you had your obligated service extended from 8 to 12 years.) Ie - you couldnt "get out" and sell what they taught you to Continental Airways but you could go to a non-flying billet on request but you owed them another four years... (While hardly an accurate reflection of Naval Aviation, hence the scene in Top Gun where the pilot handed in his wings after the bad trap... He doesnt get out of the Navy but he goes to non flying status.) Naval Aviators are "unrestricted line" officers... so if you give up flying you can get any line officer billet. Also, most of us were as I said science, math, or engineering grads so you could transfer to an engineering job etc...) To the best of my knowledge it is the same in the USAF so I would assume it to be the same in the TANG. Pilots are volunteers, like submariners, EOD, and divers...

He did not formally, or informally as far as records show, refues to fly. He failed to get an annual flight physical. He certainly remained in a pilot billet until his discharge. Once more what would happen if you failed to maintain flight statuts without giving up your wings and getting transferred out of a pilots billet??




DomAviator -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/5/2008 10:56:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

He did not formally, or informally as far as records show, refues to fly. He failed to get an annual flight physical. He certainly remained in a pilot billet until his discharge. Once more what would happen if you failed to maintain flight statuts without giving up your wings and getting transferred out of a pilots billet??


So far as I know, at least in the US Navy, nothing. Flight status is voluntary and not maintining your flight physical, not remaining carrier qualified, failure to refresh water survival etc are all viable "non dramatic" ways to get yourself off flight status. Once off flight status its up to personell to either get you back on it, or to get you a new designator and to get you reassigned. However, going back to the points thing I mentioned previously - if he had accumulated enough points and didnt intend to fly anymore he could have just said fuck it dont need it, aint gonna fly, have enough points to carry me through to discharge, im done...

I honestly dont know what happened. My guess is he lost his nerve, and I cant fault him for that. Honestly, I think you need to be mentally ill to strap on an F-102. LOL During and after the Navy Ive flown lots of things... (Including as a civilian contractor T-38's, F-4's , F-16's and various soviet bloc jet warbirds...) You wouldnt get my ass into an F-102.  No how, no way... If one scared the piss out of him, I cant fault him. Part of good pilot judgement is knowing when to walk away.

Thats my guess on what happened.... I think they didnt put the formal request to leave flight status on paper, said he had enough points, and let him finish his time with dignity and his pilot designator. That way they left the option open for him to have an airline career if he wanted one and got his confidence back... I dont know why guys quit as I didnt, but I know they do... I saw a guy with over 18 years in make a routine trap, I didnt see anything out of the ordinary at all. He wasnt even chocked when he climbed out kissed the deck, stripped off his flight gear leaving a trail of it across the deck, dropped a letter resigning his commission and he was on the COD the next day and out of the Navy less than 2 years shy of pension... 




atursvcMaam -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/5/2008 11:40:56 PM)

Whoever wants to go get root beer or whatever, and come back after y'all elope, have a bunch of fun and enjoy your honeymoon.
Monterey's kind of nice any time of year.

***************************************************
in the meantime, can we have a bit, just a wee bit of a reality check here???? Please?



quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

DA I'm not calling him a deserter I know the evidence does not support it but his jacket does contain incontravertible proof of his felony and it is covered by the charges of Dereliction and Failure to Obey. Namely his loss of flight status. It was definitely his duty to maintain his flight status and he was definitely under orders to get a physical before losing flight status. That he didn't get the physical and did not maintain flight status definitely makes him derelict in his duty and definitely means he failed to obey a lawful order.

If you're honest you'll say what would happen to any military pilot who lost flight status because he refused to get his annual flight physical.


    Mr Bush is, to some, the devil incarnate.  After all, he stole the 2000 election.  The Republicans are, to some, Satan's Minions, where a sacrifice is required. Especially after they had embarassed Saint Bill for being so very human.  I realize that this is vastly oversimplified, and that there are a whole lot of details omitted.  However, it lays enough groundwork.
     Do you, in your honest opinion, feel that if there was an actionable offense, with incontroverable proof, that some Prosecutor would not have jumped at the opportunity to take on the investigation and prosecution of this case?  Do you think that this prosecutor would not have the support of at least a few members of the Democrat party?
        Based on this, and the fact that it was never prosecuted, for some reason this case is a non-starter, except as potential fodder to create a stir. 
         I can understand a resentment towards someone who "got over" in the military, but, as they say in my country, "Shit happens",

*****************************************************
Back to our regularly scheduled insanity.




BitaTruble -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/6/2008 12:38:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam

For desertion to be a crime, an action has to be filed and show that one is not where they are supposed to be when they are supposed to be there.  Otherwise can be absent over leave, which becomes an actionable offense if you miss a role call. 


This is directly from the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Will you accept it as a legit source of military law?

"Absence offenses include absence without leave (art. 86, 10 U.S.C.A. § 886) and desertion (art. 85, 10 U.S.C.A. § 885). These are the most prevalent crimes in the military. Approximately 75 percent of all courts-martial involve charges of being absent without leave under article 86."

I don't see anything in there about charges having to be filed in order for desertion to be a crime. You've made statements as if they were factual, then qualified those statements. The original post I quoted can be shown false with a simple Websters dictionary definition of crime and I believe I've shown the error in this post with the UCMJ if it is accepted as a valid source of military law. So, once again, I ask for your cite to prove the veracity of your statement.




atursvcMaam -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/6/2008 12:43:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam

For desertion to be a crime, an action has to be filed and show that one is not where they are supposed to be when they are supposed to be there.  Otherwise can be absent over leave, which becomes an actionable offense if you miss a role call. 


This is directly from the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Will you accept it as a legit source of military law?

"Absence offenses include absence without leave (art. 86, 10 U.S.C.A. § 886) and desertion (art. 85, 10 U.S.C.A. § 885). These are the most prevalent crimes in the military. Approximately 75 percent of all courts-martial involve charges of being absent without leave under article 86."

I don't see anything in there about charges having to be filed in order for desertion to be a crime. You've made statements as if they were factual, then qualified those statements. The original post I quoted can be shown false with a simple Websters dictionary definition of crime and I believe I've shown the error in this post with the UCMJ if it is accepted as a valid source of military law. So, once again, I ask for your cite to prove the veracity of your statement.
 

i misspoke, and stand corrected.  My apologies. Thank you.




DomAviator -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/6/2008 1:18:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam

For desertion to be a crime, an action has to be filed and show that one is not where they are supposed to be when they are supposed to be there.  Otherwise can be absent over leave, which becomes an actionable offense if you miss a role call. 


This is directly from the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Will you accept it as a legit source of military law?

"Absence offenses include absence without leave (art. 86, 10 U.S.C.A. § 886) and desertion (art. 85, 10 U.S.C.A. § 885). These are the most prevalent crimes in the military. Approximately 75 percent of all courts-martial involve charges of being absent without leave under article 86."

I don't see anything in there about charges having to be filed in order for desertion to be a crime. You've made statements as if they were factual, then qualified those statements. The original post I quoted can be shown false with a simple Websters dictionary definition of crime and I believe I've shown the error in this post with the UCMJ if it is accepted as a valid source of military law. So, once again, I ask for your cite to prove the veracity of your statement.


Bita, your statements are accurate at face value. However, there are procedural issues you are missing. For example there is an offense called "Missing Movement" (Article 87) in which you essentially dont make it to your ship or aircraft. Now the actual charge says :

Any person subject to this chapter who through neglect or design misses the movement of a ship, aircraft, or unit with which he is required in the course of duty to move shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.
 
However, please note the "through neglect or design"... Hence a person has not committed this offense simply by missing movement. Rather, the offense occurs after an appropriate authority - ranging from the commanding officer to an Article 32 investigation (the equivelant of a military grand jury) determines that the missing of movement was "through neglect or design". Case in point, my BN and I missed movement. However, our missed movement was due to a mechanical malfunction in the aircraft which caused us to set down at an Air Force base and to be unable to rendevous with the carrier at sea.  There was no neglect or design, so we were not charged even though we did not depart with the carrier air wing and actually rejoined them three days late.
 
So to be entirely accurate - you are both right and your are both wrong. The "crime" does not become a crime until charges have been filed thus establishing criminality of the conduct. To go with an off the wall example. For several days John McCain did not report back to his carrier... He was not on leave so he was not authorized to be absent. For all they knew he flew to Hanoi, handed over his A-4 and asked for political asylum!!! HOWEVER, once it became known that he was in fact shot down and taken prisoner by the VC he was no longer UA and no convening authority in its right mind would court martial him because he lacks the criminality - ie the intent to avoid required presence. Another example - if I say fuck it Im having a great time in this cathouse Im not going back till Im god damn good and ready I have violated article 86 (AWOL) but if I get in a cab accident or are robbed and spend a week unconscious in a hospital in Thailand then I am not AWOL even though I am not present with my unit when required to be. This is established by the filing of charges under Article 86, ie once the conveninig authority determines I should be charged with an offense under article 86 and not merely by my abscense.
 
Now in the case of our President. No court martial proceeding was convenened and no article 32 hearing handed down charges. His file doesnt even reflect him being brought before the CO for NJP , what we called "Captain's Mast" Thus, Lt Bush was NEVER AWOL, UA, or a Desserter and he was charged with nothing under the UCMJ.
 
As I mentioned in an earlier post, their failure to charge him was probably due to his having accumulated sufficient points to fulfill his reserve obligations. If you have the points, you can miss the drills - the purpose of which are to get the points...(Think of it as "I worked doubles tuesday and thurday last week so I have comp time coming and dont have to work this weekend.") It appears to me he had sufficient points, gave up flying, and they simply said "fuckit, hes got the points, well just keep him on the books till the clock runs out and then discharge him."  




DomAviator -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/6/2008 2:54:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

McCain ain't the sharpest knife in the drawer; he got to his rank in the military through his old man. Someone more worthy was bumped for his ass. 


McCain isnt the sharpest knife in the drawer??? REALLY???? The man graduated the United States Naval Academy. Did you? What service academy did you graduate from? Did your college require a congressional appointment to get into? Mine didn't! Rule of thumb - bottom of the class at any academy (Army, Navy, Air Force or USCG) trumps valedictorian at any Ivy League. How many colleges can claim as alumni:

www.usna.edu/Admissions/Noteables/

1 President
21 Members of Congress
5 Governors
2 Nobel Peace Prize Awardees
73 Medal of Honor Awardees
52 Astronauts
44 Rhodes Scholars
16 Marshall Scholars
93 Olmstead Scholars
830 Burke Scholars
etc...

He got his rank through his old man? REALLY??? So my Navy works that way huh? So all that stuff about the core values - Honor, Courage, Committment - thats all just bullshit because all that really matters is who your daddy is right? Bullshit! NOBODY, and I do mean NOBODY becomes an O-6 in the United States Navy by nepotism. The boards dont even know who they are voting on!!! The names are redacted so you cant politic and gladhand your way to it at the O-Club! I suppose his daddy got him his 17 decorations including the DFC, Silver Star, Bronze Star, Navy Commedation Medal, and Legion of Merit too???

Someone more worthy was bumped for him huh? How nice. Too bad it wasnt you or Obama - you two "more worthy" folks could have traded places with him between October 26th, 1967 and March 14, 1973... No, I take that back - because I bet either one of you would have hauled ass home when given the offer of being repatriated because of your father being CINCNAVAIRPAC. Fuck the faith! Fuck the other guys right? Gotta get home in time for Woodstock afterall??? Well McCain stayed! He kept the faith and sat it out for five and a half years! So much for using daddys influence to gain advantage over the more deserving...

The audacity makes me want to wretch.... How utterly insulting to everyone who has ever served in the Navy since it was formed in 1775 - including every president since the 60's with the exceptions of Reagan (Army Air Corps), Clinton (Fled the Country to England) and George W. Bush (Air National Guard but son of a Naval Aviator).




kittinSol -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/6/2008 5:09:33 AM)

(I've decided I love rootbeer [8D].)




Aynne -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/6/2008 6:13:46 AM)

DA how is it that you know every single bit of military minutaue, codes of conduct, laws, by-laws, rules, jargon, blah blah blah ad nauseum, but you don't know what should have or would have happened to Bush when he did not get his physical? Dance DA dance....




Aynne -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/6/2008 6:20:51 AM)

 
A little morning reading for DA. Please remove the GOP issued blinders in order to fully comprehend the below article.
*************************************************************************************

Bush enlisted in the Texas Air National Guard on May 27, 1968, during the Vietnam War, with a commitment to serve until May 26, 1974. In his 1968 Statement of Intent (undated), he wrote, "I have applied for pilot training with the goal of making flying a lifetime pursuit and I believe I can best accomplish this to my own satisfaction by serving as a member of the Air National Guard as long as possible." He performed Guard duty as an F-102 pilot through April 1972, logging a total of 336 flight hours[1] and was promoted once during his service, to First Lieutenant.[2]
In November 1970, Lt. Col. Jerry B. Killian, commander of the 111th Fighter Squadron (Texas Air National Guard), recommended that Bush be promoted to First Lieutenant, calling him "a dynamic outstanding young officer" who stood out as "a top notch fighter interceptor pilot." He said that "Lt. Bush's skills far exceed his contemporaries," and that "he is a natural leader whom his contemporaries look to for leadership. Lt. Bush is also a good follower with outstanding disciplinary traits and an impeccable military bearing."[3]
Bush's six-year obligation to serve required him to maintain his immediate readiness as an individual and a member of a unit to be called to active duty in the event of a national emergency. Bush's military records indicate that until May 1972 he fulfilled that obligation. But from that point on, Bush failed to meet the attendance requirements established by Federal law, Department of Defense regulations, and Air Force policies and procedures for "obligated" members of the Air National Guard, and the Air Force requirement for an annual physical examination for pilots.[4]

[image]http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/magnify-clip.png[/image]Bush beside a jet.During the 1968–1974 period, Presidents Johnson and Nixon decided against calling up National Guard units for service in Vietnam. As a result, National Guard service was widely portrayed as a way to avoid combat. The waiting list for the Guard at that time was extremely long, and there have been charges that young men from influential families were improperly moved to the top of the list. A similar accusation was leveled at Dan Quayle, who served in the Indiana National Guard, and was Vice President from 1989 to 1993.
According to various media outlets, Bush jumped to the top of a list of over 500 applicants for his position as a pilot despite receiving the minimum passing score (25) on the pilot entrance aptitude test and listing no other qualifications. Other reports indicated that although there were many candidates interested in weekend enlisted duty, there were fewer, if any, people who were both sufficiently educated to qualify for an officer pilot position and willing to commit to the more than one year of full-time service required of Air National Guard pilots. Ben Barnes, the former Speaker of the Texas House of Representatives and Lieutenant Governor of Texas, stated under oath that he had called the head of the Texas Air National Guard, Brig. Gen. James Rose, to recommend Bush for a pilot spot at the request of Bush family friend Sidney Adger.[5] Later, Barnes repeated these claims in an interview with CBS News on September 8, 2004.
Former Texas legislator Jake Johnson has stated that before General Rose died, Rose told him that he had been responsible for Bush's acceptance into the Guard. Both George W. Bush and his father have stated that they did not ask Adger to intercede and were unaware of any action he may have taken. Walter Staudt, the colonel in command of Bush's squadron, has stated that he accepted Bush's application without receiving any outside pressure to do so. In a 1994 interview, Bush stated that he joined the Guard because "I was not prepared to shoot my eardrum out with a shotgun in order to get a deferment. Nor was I willing to go to Canada. So I chose to better myself by learning how to fly airplanes."[6]
The unit in which Bush served was known as a "Champagne unit," where the scions of the Texas aristocracy could avoid combat duty with relatively few demands on their time. Serving in that unit with Bush were the sons of three prominent men: Democratic Governor John Connally, Democratic Senator and future Vice-Presidential nominee Lloyd Bentsen, and Republican Senator John Tower, as well as seven members of the Dallas Cowboys professional football team, and James R. Bath, who would become a longtime friend of Bush's.
Air National Guard members could volunteer for active duty service with the Air Force in a program called Palace Alert, which deployed F-102 pilots to Europe and Southeast Asia, including Vietnam and Thailand. According to three pilots from Bush's squadron, Bush inquired about this program but was advised by the base commander that he did not have the necessary experience (500 hours) at the time and that the F-102 was outdated.[7]

[edit] Flight performance and flight status in 1972 and 1973

[edit] Final flights
Flight logs released in September 2004 in response to a lawsuit (see below) showed that Bush, who had been flying solo in the F-102A Delta Dagger, an interceptor, for most of his career, flew nine times in T-33 trainers in February and March 1972 — nearly twice as many times as he had flown in T-33s in the prior 18 months.[8] He also used a flight simulator, and was heavily focused on flying by instruments.[9] The logs also show that in March and April 1972, Bush twice needed multiple tries to land the F102 fighter.[10]
The final two entries of Bush's official flight logs show him being assigned to work as an instructional pilot in late May 1972 at a Texas Air National Guard base. But Bush left for Alabama in mid-May (see next section) and his pay records show he wasn't paid for any work on the two dates of the instructional pilot assignment. The logs have a code indicating the assignments were eventually deleted from his official records.[8]

[edit] Flight physical
By regulation, National Guard pilots were required to take and pass an annual physical in order to remain in flight status, in the three months prior to a pilot's birthday (in Bush's case, July 6). For reasons that are unclear, Bush apparently chose not to take this mandatory physical examination in mid-1972, thus ending his pilot's career. He never flew again after April 15, 1972.
As a result of his failure to take his physical, his flight status was suspended by his commander on 1 August 1972, confirmed by Col Bobby Hodges on 5 September 1972 and confirmed again by a National Guard Bureau order on September 29, 1972, which meant he no longer was authorized to fly as a pilot. The confirmation order also confirmed the suspension of flight status of Major James R. Bath, a long-time friend of Bush.
The document directly orders Bush to acknowledge the suspension in writing ("Off will comply with para 2-10, AFM 35-13") but there is no evidence Bush obeyed this order and no evidence that he did not. The Air Force regulation cited here, AFM 35-13 Para 2-29m[11] required the commander of Bush's Texas National Guard unit to "direct an investigation as to why the individual failed to accomplish the medical examination"[12] but there is no evidence this investigation ever occurred.
Following the investigation, the local commander was required to either convene a Flying Evaluation Board to review Bush’s suspension or to forward a detailed report on his case up the chain of command. Either way, there should have been a record of the investigation.[13]
Although he had taken the physical twice previously by flight surgeons, Bush says that he wanted to wait to take the physical until it could be done by his own private doctor. Regulations require that the physical be performed by an Air Force doctor.[14] Air Force Flight Surgeons were assigned to Maxwell Air Force Base in Montgomery, Alabama, where Bush purportedly drilled in October and November 1972 and in January 1973. There is no record of his attendance in the 187th Alabama ANG, The Alabama unit’s commanders say they never saw Bush or any paperwork showing he performed drills there, however a January 1973 document references a dental exam that Bush received at the Alabama base.[15]
There is no record of a physical being taken in either 1972 or in 1973, the last two years in which Bush attended drills. According to his released military records, Bush never flew again as a National Guard pilot after April 1972, and was suspended from flying on August 1,1972.[16].

[




atursvcMaam -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/6/2008 6:21:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne

DA how is it that you know every single bit of military minutaue, codes of conduct, laws, by-laws, rules, jargon, blah blah blah ad nauseum, but you don't know what should have or would have happened to Bush when he did not get his physical? Dance DA dance....


Just a thought,  perhaps because it is hard to document nothing  Which seems, by the way, to be the answer.




Aynne -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/6/2008 6:48:19 AM)

So  you got a lot from the wiki article eh? 


quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne

DA how is it that you know every single bit of military minutaue, codes of conduct, laws, by-laws, rules, jargon, blah blah blah ad nauseum, but you don't know what should have or would have happened to Bush when he did not get his physical? Dance DA dance....


Just a thought,  perhaps because it is hard to document nothing  Which seems, by the way, to be the answer.




DomKen -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/6/2008 6:50:06 AM)

I gave you a chance DA.

Here's what happens to an officer who won't follow SOP and loses flight status or some other status without requesting transfer and formally resigning the status, he gets to sit a court martial. He will be convicted, barring truly amazing circumstances, since there is no issue of fact to argue. The very best an officer can expect from such a court is a Bad Conduct Discharge but a snot nosed O-2 who jerked his squadron commander around about getting his flight physical is a dead certain lock for a Dishonorable Discharge and I'd guess he's about a 50/50 shot at doing time in jail.

That GWB failed to maintain his flight status is documented in his service jacket but his records indicate not even a counseling session with his CO on the matter which is surpassing odd.

Anybody who doubts the issue should find a present or former serviceman and describe the issue without mentioning GWB. I'm perfectly willing to bet you'll be told he'd be charged with Dereliction and Failure to Obey.




kittinSol -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/6/2008 6:57:07 AM)

Aynne - you've got mail, darling.




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