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advice please - 6/2/2008 5:04:59 PM   
hisdevoted1


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Greetings.  I have been given permission to post and participate on these forums by my Master, and I post today seeking advice.

Master and I met two and a half years ago.  At first, we were both only looking for casual S&M play, but before we knew it, we were in love and developing a relationship outside of the playroom.  Play took a backseat more and more often, and our visits focused on just spending time together, talking, and all the mushy stuff people in love tend to do.  We tried to play many times, intending to go right back to the edge play we both so enjoy, but it felt different, and we made excuses... not feeling our best, stress at home and with family situations, just needing to cuddle and reconnect, the timing wasn't right, etc.  When we did try to play hard, things were different.  He was much more defferential, more cautious and afraid of hurting me, even though we both wanted it.  He wanted to be sure I wanted to be there and stopped tying me up, preferring that I stay in place as a show of my want to desire to be there and play.  My tears were suddenly a sign that I was in real distress and wanted to stop, even if I said that was NOT the case.

With my former Dom, and when I first started playing with my Master, I was always restrained or bound in some way, and it was negotiated up front that tears, screams, pleas, and "no" was not a reason to stop.  I did not wish to have a safeword, as I believe in communicating throughout the scene and play only with experienced sadists.  Anyway, those agreements seemed to fall by the wayside, and I found myself struggling, not only with trying to stay in position when I had always before been bound, but also trying to withhold all the tears and expressions of pain so as not to discourage him from continuing.  I failed miserably.  I found it impossible to tolerate even a fraction of what I could before.  Having to concentrate on holding still and on trying not to cry out or scream and on fighting the tears that always flow in a scene took all my energy.  I felt lost at suddenly having the rules changed and feeling it was unfair as I continued to say, "Walking in the door was my consent and I trust you not to harm me."

From time to time comments were made to me.  I had "put on a show" when we first met and wasn't really a masochist, even though my prior experiences were documented proof.  Former submissives of his were mentioned.  So and so could have handled a much harder caning and loved every second of it.  I wasn't really a masochist and was only trying to please him.  It was crushing to be in a scene and hear those things when I truly was trying my hardest to please him and serve him.  He says he does not know why he said those things, that he didn't mean them, and that I have never disappointed him.  Words and actions, however, don't match, and I very much feel I have deeply disappointed him.

We have talked and talked and talked about this.  I have told him I feel like I have failed.  I feel inadequate, afraid, and hopeless when we enter the playroom.  Yet, we both want the hard play so very much.  I have suggested that we start slowly, go back to square one as if I had never played before.  He has said he just needs to take me where he wants to go, and I have told him I would like that more than anything, but that I don't know how to just set aside the fear that now comes up for me anytime we talk about playing hard, the fear of disappointing him yet again.

Any advice would be appreciated.  How can we get back to where we can play hard again?
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RE: advice please - 6/2/2008 5:31:28 PM   
xxblushesxx


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Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
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Is he willing to bind you, blindfold you, gag you, so that you feel 'more free' to express yourself?

Or is he willing to understand that your reactions will be different when you're used to playing restrained, and therefore able to be unrestrained?

You obviously cannot (at this time) be unrestrained when you are, actually, physically unrestrained...

Also, his comparing you to former slaves is petty and childish imo; you are the one kneeling before him now. He should concentrate on what he has rather than what he allowed to slip away.

_____________________________

~Christina

A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

My femdom findom blog: http://www.MistressAvarice.com


(in reply to hisdevoted1)
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RE: advice please - 6/2/2008 5:36:12 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
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First, he needs to stop with the cutting comments and allow you to relearn to trust him again.
Beyond that, let's compare stopping play to stopping a gym workout because you have double pneumonia. You don't get out of a hospital room and immediately win a marathon. You start with small, slow walks and you take a long time to regain muscle tone and endurance.

He needs to go a lot slower and to learn to appreciate your responses. Because if the only thing he wants is to swing a chain flogger as hard as possible with no response, he might as well start beating on a wooden post. But the nastiness is preventing you from relaxing and learning to take any more because you're already totally tense with worry about him carping and demeaning you.

Basically, what he's doing isn't working. Is he going to keep doing the same thing and be shocked and horrified each time he still gets a response he doesn't like or is he going to try something new? His choice.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to hisdevoted1)
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RE: advice please - 6/2/2008 5:44:16 PM   
hisdevoted1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

Is he willing to bind you, blindfold you, gag you, so that you feel 'more free' to express yourself?

Or is he willing to understand that your reactions will be different when you're used to playing restrained, and therefore able to be unrestrained?

You obviously cannot (at this time) be unrestrained when you are, actually, physically unrestrained...

Also, his comparing you to former slaves is petty and childish imo; you are the one kneeling before him now. He should concentrate on what he has rather than what he allowed to slip away.


No, he does not want to restrain me in any way.  For some reason, and I don't know why, he is concerned that because I love him now that I might agree to things I don't really want if I am bound.  I set what few limits I felt were necessary at the beginning of the relationship and I am still comfortable with those.  He is afraid I am just saying that.  I'm at a loss as to where this came from as we have not had any bad situations happen.  I've wondered if it was a fear left over from one of his previous relationships, but he isn't forthcoming with any explanations, only that he doesn't want to lose my love.

I can stay still while unrestrained.  I cannot do so and not cry.  It also takes a lot of energy for me to hold still if I am being caned or whipped, and I feel it lowers my tolerance significantly.   

(in reply to xxblushesxx)
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RE: advice please - 6/2/2008 5:48:10 PM   
xxblushesxx


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Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
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Do you want to play this way?
I know I wouldn't enjoy it nearly as much.
I enjoy being restrained even when we are not playing.
I can see using 'mental restraints' every once in a while as mental play...but, I wouldn't like this very often.

_____________________________

~Christina

A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

My femdom findom blog: http://www.MistressAvarice.com


(in reply to hisdevoted1)
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RE: advice please - 6/2/2008 5:49:23 PM   
xxblushesxx


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Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hisdevoted1

No, he does not want to restrain me in any way. 


It seems as if he is, though...

_____________________________

~Christina

A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

My femdom findom blog: http://www.MistressAvarice.com


(in reply to hisdevoted1)
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RE: advice please - 6/2/2008 6:17:10 PM   
hisdevoted1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

quote:

ORIGINAL: hisdevoted1

No, he does not want to restrain me in any way. 


It seems as if he is, though...


Yes, it does.  Just not with the ropes and chains I am used to, and not in a way that makes for a good scene.

You asked in the previous post if I wanted to play this way.  Playing while being untied would be fine.... WITHOUT the comments and what I perceive as criticism and with understanding that it is something new and difficult for me.  It is something that I feel will take time to learn and no, I don't know how to handle the same level of intensity as I can while being securely bound, but I am willing to learn.  I've tried to communicate this to him.  He says we need to find our balance again, but then I see no effort to do so.

(in reply to xxblushesxx)
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RE: advice please - 6/2/2008 6:23:17 PM   
angelikaJ


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this is just a theory:

perhaps because of your need to try to supress your expressions of pain (which automatically brings you into fear...thus changing the interpretation) ...at that moment you were unable to accept; unable to surrender.
Because of the depth of your relationship you were able to express more
BUT
He was afraid of hurting you and you were afraid of his interpreting distress as failure on both your parts.

This is not a criticism...and neither of you should feel like you are failing.
This is a new opportunity for growth and self discovery.

Being in a committed and loving relationship has affected both of you.

If my thoughts seem to fit then spend some time talking about it...
and then play.
But play honestly... .

Trying to surpress makes surrender to the moment impossible... .



(in reply to hisdevoted1)
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RE: advice please - 6/2/2008 6:26:04 PM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
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he seems like he is missing a lot of the picture...

the not restraining you part is taking away your ability to float....

him saying that you want and desire to be there is indicated by you being able to stand in place sounds lazy to me, but also its comparing apples to oranges...

and besides why after all these years cant he take you at you word...he has no reason to not believe you.

i also feel that the little comments he is making are very destructive and i don't understand why he is doing them...IMO he has run this thing off in the ditch and is not seeming to want to take responsibility for that...something i find distressing/

the disappearing Dom syndrome is a fairly common one...things start out all good, kinks match up, lots of play..and then folks loose the will, or the drive, and they dont make time to connect in the places that brought them together in the first place...

and then they blame each other...

this is not an effective strategy, what would be more effective is a heart to heart where you explain quite frankly that you desire to be restrained, you tried it his way, but you feel that it simply does not work for you. If he has issues around worrying if you really wan tto be there, or are iin distress, well then that is what safe words were ddesigned for.

and lastly please dont let him compare you favorable or unfavorably to previous play partners...it sucks the magic right out of the dynamic....you are you , he is who he is, and this is something you both created, and something you can easily uncreate.





_____________________________


Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."




(in reply to xxblushesxx)
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RE: advice please - 6/2/2008 6:36:45 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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I actually agree with FIP.  Keep doing the same thing and you'll get the same reaction.  If he refuses to change, then you choose whether that will fulfill you or not.

Talking isn't the same as communicating.  I don't know either of your styles or personalities, but blame and focus on results needs to be eliminated and strength and cooperation needs to become the name of the game. 

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to crouchingtigress)
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RE: advice please - 6/2/2008 6:40:57 PM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
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quote:

I've tried to communicate this to him.  He says we need to find our balance again, but then I see no effort to do so.


hmmm....see i think this is why i got rather heated in my reply....i do not want to make him out to be a bad guy, and i am not taking sides....but i have seen the disapearing dom thing a few times now in my life and it just riles me a little bit, because often as in your case, the Dom does not take responsibility and blames the sub...

it just seems lazy and annoying to me....how ever, you can take some steps to right this....ask him quite pointedly "so what steps are we needing to do to find our ballance again Sir?"

then navigate them with him....maybe include in there some sort of accountability...and some sort of time that is designated for further navigating....

_____________________________


Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."




(in reply to crouchingtigress)
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RE: advice please - 6/2/2008 6:45:25 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hisdevoted1
My tears were suddenly a sign that I was in real distress and wanted to stop, even if I said that was NOT the case

Well, he's just not a good listener then is he?  Many subs/slaves/bottoms cry when playing/scening/being hurt and that does not mean they want to stop.  As a matter of fact, some of the people I know (including myself) who take the "most" pain use tears as a way of venting and coping during it.  It doesn't by any means necessarily mean we wish it to stop.  He needs to accept that fact.  Unless he believes you to be a liar, when you say crying doesn't mean that you want to stop he needs to believe you and accept it.
quote:

I found myself struggling, not only with trying to stay in position when I had always before been bound, but also trying to withhold all the tears and expressions of pain so as not to discourage him from continuing.  I failed miserably

Seems to me, he's the one who is "failing miserably" if anyone is.  He's failing to understand that, to process the pain and cope, you are crying, making statements, facial expressions etc. and that they don't mean you want to stop or that you can't take it.  I would personally have a horrible time having to refrain from any expression at all of what I'm feeling when I'm being hurt.  As I have stated here before, the worst experience Master and I ever had was the one time I was determined to be stoic.  Neither of us enjoyed it at all and He ordered me to NEVER withhold my true reactions again.  Your dom needs to grasp the fact that crying and reacting is not the same as hating it and not wanting to participate.
quote:

  I found it impossible to tolerate even a fraction of what I could before.  Having to concentrate on holding still and on trying not to cry out or scream and on fighting the tears that always flow in a scene took all my energy

I can certainly understand.  What a waste of concentration and energy.
quote:

Former submissives of his were mentioned.  So and so could have handled a much harder caning and loved every second of it

So and so needs to walk her ass back into his life to receive his canings then if she was so great at taking them.  Wonder if she had to remain motionless and soundless during them too?  This type of statement would violate everything we stand for.  Comparing me to some former sub who is out of his life for a reason would be so unacceptable - to Him as well as me.  Talk about unfair and uncalled for.
quote:

I wasn't really a masochist and was only trying to please him.  It was crushing to be in a scene and hear those things when I truly was trying my hardest to please him and serve him

So what if that one is true?  If I were a dom, I think I'd be pretty damn proud to have someone who was NOT a masochist yet submitted to pain she found horrible "just to please me."  What better reason!  A pain slut who did it for her own pleasure as well wouldn't impress me nearly as much as someone who'd take it solely for me.  Why is that even bad in his eyes?
quote:

We have talked and talked and talked about this.  I have told him I feel like I have failed.  I feel inadequate, afraid, and hopeless when we enter the playroom

I can see why.  "Come in here and let me hurt you.  You won't be able to handle as much as "so and so," I know, but just stand there motionless and soundless while I do this and then I'll criticize you afterward in comparison to her."  Why aren't you jumping at the chance for more?

I'm sorry for your situation.  I would really need to let him know how much it hurt me to be compared to someone who's gone now as well as let him know how I need to be able to express what I'm feeling during heavy play.  If he can't work with you on these issues, I don't see both of you ever entering the "playroom" together happily.  Good luck................luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to hisdevoted1)
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RE: advice please - 6/2/2008 6:48:00 PM   
hisdevoted1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

quote:

I've tried to communicate this to him.  He says we need to find our balance again, but then I see no effort to do so.


hmmm....see i think this is why i got rather heated in my reply....i do not want to make him out to be a bad guy, and i am not taking sides....but i have seen the disapearing dom thing a few times now in my life and it just riles me a little bit, because often as in your case, the Dom does not take responsibility and blames the sub...

it just seems lazy and annoying to me....how ever, you can take some steps to right this....ask him quite pointedly "so what steps are we needing to do to find our ballance again Sir?"

then navigate them with him....maybe include in there some sort of accountability...and some sort of time that is designated for further navigating....


Thank you so much for this.  I have asked him what we need to do to get things back on track, to which he replied that he just had to do it.  But, I stopped there and didn't ask for steps, a time frame, or anything.  I know these things would definitely help me.  Don't know how he will see the idea, but is certainly worth bringing up.

(in reply to crouchingtigress)
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RE: advice please - 6/2/2008 6:51:52 PM   
xxblushesxx


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Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
Luci;  uhm...those were the things I *meant* to say...

_____________________________

~Christina

A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

My femdom findom blog: http://www.MistressAvarice.com


(in reply to slaveluci)
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RE: advice please - 6/2/2008 6:52:55 PM   
fungasm


Posts: 321
Joined: 8/2/2007
Status: offline
A safeword would help. 

If you had a word that you could say when things got to difficult, your master wouldn't need you to hold completely still or hold back you emotions during rough play.  I can see his point of view- if I'm caning some one and I don't have anyway to tell when I've gone too far, I'm not likely to take it as far as I can.

That's what a safeword does. Perhaps if you have a safeword, your master will give you permission to cry out- knowing that it doesn't mean stop.


_____________________________

"Science is a lot like sex. Sometimes something useful comes of it, but that's not the reason we're doing it." (Richard Feynman)

Blog: http://antidomme.sensualwriter.com

(in reply to hisdevoted1)
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RE: advice please - 6/2/2008 6:55:08 PM   
ProtagonistLily


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My 2 cents and a buck isn't going to get you a latte at Starbucks, but here goes anyway...

quote:

No, he does not want to restrain me in any way. For some reason, and I don't know why, he is concerned that because I love him now that I might agree to things I don't really want if I am bound.

For what ever it's worth to you, you guys don't sound very connected. You are trying to 'figure out' what his reasons are' when really, you deserve to know. It's your ass we are talking about, and if your Master can't articulate to you why he's unwilling to restrain you, then in my opinion, that's an issue. While you may not like his reasoning, he should be willing to share it with you. He's either not willing or you haven't asked - either way, that's a little problematic if this is a real relationship we are talking about.


quote:

I set what few limits I felt were necessary at the beginning of the relationship and I am still comfortable with those.


But that was 3 years ago and things have clearly changed, haven't they?

quote:

He is afraid I am just saying that.

And why would he not trust you? have you lied to him in the past? If you can honestly say that you haven't given him any cause to think you'd be dishonest, this may not be a problem that has all that much to do with you.

quote:

I'm at a loss as to where this came from as we have not had any bad situations happen. I've wondered if it was a fear left over from one of his previous relationships, but he isn't forthcoming with any explanations, only that he doesn't want to lose my love.

Again, if you have been honest about the situation, this sounds like he's struggling with something and he's not sharing it. You are effectively trying to find a needle in a haystack if this is really the case.

What I'm hearing is you making a lot of suppositions about things that I feel you are entitled to know. If you are in this man's service/collar/protection/insert appropriate verbiage here, then this guessing game is entirely unfair and bordering on psychological warfare.

If however, he's been fourthcoming and you don't really like what you are hearing and are coming here to find some other answer as a distraction, you owe it to both of you to knuckle down and work through this.

Either way, I think you two need to be straight with each other and really spend time working through this problem with all the important facts on the table. Right now, it doesn't sound like all of the facts have been aired.

PL


_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

(in reply to hisdevoted1)
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RE: advice please - 6/2/2008 6:58:57 PM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hisdevoted1

quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

quote:

I've tried to communicate this to him.  He says we need to find our balance again, but then I see no effort to do so.


hmmm....see i think this is why i got rather heated in my reply....i do not want to make him out to be a bad guy, and i am not taking sides....but i have seen the disappearing Dom thing a few times now in my life and it just riles me a little bit, because often as in your case, the Dom does not take responsibility and blames the sub...

it just seems lazy and annoying to me....how ever, you can take some steps to right this....ask him quite pointedly "so what steps are we needing to do to find our balance again Sir?"

then navigate them with him....maybe include in there some sort of accountability...and some sort of time that is designated for further navigating....


Thank you so much for this.  I have asked him what we need to do to get things back on track, to which he replied that he just had to do it.  But, I stopped there and didn't ask for steps, a time frame, or anything.  I know these things would definitely help me.  Don't know how he will see the idea, but is certainly worth bringing up.


yanno around here we call that Dom's disease....the idea that the Dom has to fix everything all by himself no help from anyone also that he has to be perfect and a mind-reader ect...and sadly the ones that buy in to this mental construct the most are the Dom's themselves...they sort of forget that the subs want desperately to help, to right things, to communicate and to please....and they forget what a wonderful resource having a sub can be when you navigate with her/him....and when you use her or him for their talents, ie communication, navigation, accountability, making the dates and keeping the sacred space time commitments, and honest feed back...ect

i think if he could some how be shown that you want to be used in this way...and that he can use you in this way...it will be hotter for you both and you'll get better play out of it.....win win.



_____________________________


Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."




(in reply to hisdevoted1)
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RE: advice please - 6/2/2008 7:19:51 PM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hisdevoted1
because I love him now that I might agree to things I don't really want if I am bound.  I set what few limits I felt were necessary at the beginning of the relationship and I am still comfortable with those.  He is afraid I am just saying that. 

This jumped out at me because it is a personal sore spot with me.  You may not see it the same way, but when someone says that to me, they are saying, "you are lying."  You can couch it in pretty terms if you want by saying that he thinks you are just trying to make him happy by saying that, but to me, you either believe me or you don't, and if you don't believe me, you're saying I'm lying. 

Accusing me of lying is one of the worst things you can do to me, and if it continues, it's a dealbreaker. 

Cali


_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to hisdevoted1)
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RE: advice please - 6/2/2008 7:27:42 PM   
xxblushesxx


Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
Erm...are you sure you're not just saying that Cali?

*runs and ducks*

_____________________________

~Christina

A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

My femdom findom blog: http://www.MistressAvarice.com


(in reply to CalifChick)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: advice please - 6/2/2008 7:31:03 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline
I am not much into TV psychology but Dr Phil has a saying that seems to fit.
"How's that working for you?"
You have let him know how you feel.  Now ask him if what he is doing is working for him.  And then tell him it is not working for you. 
If I had to be still so that my partner felt OK with himself, then I might as well be a REALDOLL.
In fact, in my life I had a mate who occasionally demanded that I show no pain, fear, feeling, movement, ect.  I was basically a body to be used as if i was nothing but a hole.
Note that I said occasionally.
There is no way I could tolerate being forced to concentrate so hard on making things doable for him, that I was not allowed to rejoice in pain, tears, ect.
If you cannot get him to see that, perhaps you two should consider play parties where you can feel free to express your self with a dominant who is not afraid to take you outside the tightly wound world that your dominant demands.
Maybe if he sees you in painful release, he can see that you need it as much as he used to give it out.
Kyst

(in reply to crouchingtigress)
Profile   Post #: 20
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