Submissive/Slave

Submissive/Slave (Full Version)

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KinkyKitten -> Submissive/Slave (10/27/2005 4:47:35 AM)
In the past when i've tried to define between the two, i get a hazy sort of explanation. Can someone please tell me the difference between a submissive and a slave? i realise this must sound very naive of me but it would mean alot, Thanks, KinkyKitten xx

Heinz -> RE: Submissive/Slave (10/27/2005 5:15:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KinkyKitten In the past when i've tried to define between the two, i get a hazy sort of explanation. Can someone please tell me the difference between a submissive and a slave? i realise this must sound very naive of me but it would mean alot, Thanks, KinkyKitten xx A country-fellowman of you named Shakespear said: Whats in a name? I My opinion: a sub is someone who want to serve a Dom(me) a slave is going more far. a slave is giving him / herself away to a Dom(me) Heinz from Holland

KinkyKitten -> RE: Submissive/Slave (10/27/2005 5:30:23 AM)
i get ya, thanks alot :) xx

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Submissive/Slave (10/27/2005 6:12:11 AM)
Oh you've done it now. The reality is that you will get a different answer for each person you ask. Here is a PARTIAL list of topics on this same issue. Different definitions Define slave slave vs submissive

ginawithaB -> RE: Submissive/Slave (10/27/2005 6:51:31 AM)
Something that helped me in understanding the "difference," if you will, is understanding a bit abt the semantics involved...ie: "slave" is a noun; "submissive," though used as a noun is actually an adjective. "slave," to me, merely indicates how any individual "submissive" chooses to identify her/him self. i don't think it has anything to do with actual degrees or levels of submission, it has to do with how a person identifies and the type(s) of relationship(s) that person engages or is engaged in. i don't believe it's as simple as declaring that a "submissive" only goes so far, but a "slave" takes the ball all the way down field. Some do, some don't. Nor do i think it's as complicated as so many of us in the community seem to want to make it out to be. The difference between the two terms, imho, then becomes abt intangible, personal, and unquantifiable notions that each individual must weed through for her/himself. How's that for adding more confusion to the pot??? gina

Mercnbeth -> RE: Submissive/Slave (10/27/2005 6:58:56 AM)
quote: Can someone please tell me the difference between a submissive and a slave? kitten, you brave poster, you! one has 5 more letters than the other. one is an adjective, one is a noun. there is no historically abhorrant version of a "submissive", unless you are talking to a feminist about religion-based domestic discipline. **entering into a relationship with a submissive individual is not challenging the law, owning another human being is. and, just for fun, how about the similarities? BOTH words can define a particular role within a relationship which might be to either of the following extremes or somewhere in between for any number of reasons: mono or poly celibate or sex-crazed deeply fulfilling on multiple levels or satisfying an occasional urge in a fixed period of time filled with love or filled with hateful emotion purpose-driven or random circumstancial occurrance highly controlled(some like to say micro-managed) or minimally controlled by the "Dom" or "Master" real-time or cyber only ultimately, it is deeply subjective, like the words "beauty" and "art". will you ascribe to someone else's definition of either one of those words or do you know what is beautiful TO YOU or what YOU appreciate as artistic? the definition of any number of published authors or self-proclaimed experts, from Webster's to Dr. Ruth will help with a basic definition, as THEY see it or as THEY believe it is widely-accepted, however, nothing beats real time experience! this slave's definition is the same now as it was when she discovered their relevance to D/s relationships. something that has helped this slave to reinforce the differences as she sees them and as Master sees them has been to have conversations with real live flesh and blood folks who label themselves "submissive" or "slave" and see what it means to them. sometimes actions speak louder than words. this slave has found that the definition that matters most is the one we have to define for ourselves by deciding what it means to US, what it means to any potential or existing partner within the potential or existing relationship...in other words, it matters not what this slave perceives the difference to be for it to be defined by others and have it totally work for them. and in case you are curious as to this slave's opinion on the definitions try this link: The End of Slavery a similar, and possibly easier to answer, question: which came first, the chicken or the egg?[:D]

plantlady64 -> RE: Submissive/Slave (10/27/2005 8:02:06 AM)
Hello There, A submissive is someone who owns themselves and chooses to submit to whom she or her Dom chooses she submit to. A sub also has a say in what she will or will not do. While both sub & slave are usually permitted a hard list of un-acceptable things, a sub in the middle of something being introduced at a later time has the option to re-negotiate her position a good slave just does what her Master wants of her as it's His will not hers that counts. A slave is bound to the word of the contract she signed. A slave is owned property, not just a mate, but a possession as well. Over all to be willing to allow someone else to own you as a slave is a deeper mental submissive act than just being submissive on your own accord. Sincerely, sub suzanne

Guest -> RE: Submissive/Slave (10/27/2005 8:20:55 AM)
Welcome to the forum kinky.You will find a search option at the top of the screen.Typing in key words will aid you finding past discussions to aid your information search.

subspaceinMD -> RE: Submissive/Slave (10/27/2005 8:29:34 AM)
i agree with suzanne, i feel that a submissive is choosing to give to her Master, and a slave is owned and after choosing to be a slave to their Master then gives up their rights to their Master

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Submissive/Slave (10/27/2005 9:02:29 AM)
I'm not picking on you, or your post, just parsing this out again. quote: ORIGINAL: plantlady64 Hello There, A submissive is someone who owns themselves and chooses to submit to whom she or her Dom chooses she submit to. A sub also has a say in what she will or will not do. Many slaves are given a choice on many things. quote: While both sub & slave are usually permitted a hard list of un-acceptable things, a sub in the middle of something being introduced at a later time has the option to re-negotiate her position a good slave just does what her Master wants of her as it's His will not hers that counts. Sounds pretty on paper, when it comes to key issues, I've never seen it actually work out so sweetly. A slave friend of mine had a husband/master who told her to stop working and stay at home. She hated it, she felt depressed, she fought and cried. She obeyed of course. But she also tried to talk to him and and certainly did not "just do what he wants because it's his will." quote: A slave is bound to the word of the contract she signed. Lots of slaves don't have contracts. And how is this different than submissives? quote: A slave is owned property, not just a mate, but a possession as well. Not all slaves consider themselves property. quote: Over all to be willing to allow someone else to own you as a slave is a deeper mental submissive act than just being submissive on your own accord. Sincerely, sub suzanne And that's a big issue. Slaves are no more/deeper/cooler/sweeter/awesomer than submissives. Any perpetuation of that myth should cease and desist. Submissioin is also not "just" anything.

ragdoll -> RE: Submissive/Slave (10/27/2005 10:09:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross And that's a big issue. Slaves are no more/deeper/cooler/sweeter/awesomer than submissives. Any perpetuation of that myth should cease and desist. Submissioin is also not "just" anything. i really like that you said that.

darkinshadows -> RE: Submissive/Slave (10/27/2005 10:41:56 AM)
quote: i agree with suzanne, i feel that a submissive is choosing to give to her Master, and a slave is owned and after choosing to be a slave to their Master then gives up their rights to their Master Thats your definition, but its not set in stone. I am a submissive with no choice, no limits... I have no choice - like alot of submissives and slaves. There is ultimately no difference other than they are different words. How one chooses to interpret that word is an individual thing. I get really tired of the whole subvsslave thing... slaves are better that subs because subs are 'just' subs... subs are better than slaves because they have choice. Its all bull of course. I totally agree with my favourtie CM whore......(bwahahah...[;)]) Lucky, (geez, so whats new?) All you need to be concerned with, kinky, is that you listen to the dominant you submit to. Its His decision and no one elses as to whther you, as an individual are slave or sub or whatever is decided. What others are, are for them to disclose to you. There are threads on tolerance and understanding all over the forums at the moment... the greatest tolerence and understanding comes on an individual level - not what people try and TELL YOU - what definitions are for everyone... Peace and Love

plantlady64 -> RE: Submissive/Slave (10/27/2005 11:05:21 AM)
Hello Again, I can agree we view things a little different. LA. I actually respect your opinion and love when you point out an alternate view as it's usually great food for thought. I would like to point out I said just being sumbissive not to down play a sub's role, worth, style, or say slave or sub is more right or wrong for anyone. It was not intended as just a sub, but as it's written. I'd also like to say if it's just a different word for the same act then why will most subs not be willing to consider themselves a slave even in a 24/7 live in TPE? I think there are indeed different mind sets to being your own owner & trusting a Master that owns you as his property and slave. Some of us are wired to get the most out of the relationship one way and some the other. It's really about what you are comfortable with and not a competition as to who's better. Neither is better, just different from each other in hair splitting ways overall. In my own life I've had many I'd sub to, but only one who I trust with all of my life, body, heart, mind and soul to own me as a slave. I honestly feel it's a different perspective to be a sub vs slave for me anyway. Sincerely, sub suzanne

Evanesce -> RE: Submissive/Slave (10/27/2005 11:07:18 AM)
quote: Can someone please tell me the difference between a submissive and a slave? In my world, it's really very simple. A slave is property. Submissive is a psychological attribute.

darkinshadows -> RE: Submissive/Slave (10/27/2005 11:59:55 AM)
quote: I'd also like to say if it's just a different word for the same act then why will most subs not be willing to consider themselves a slave even in a 24/7 live in TPE? Because its a preference of a word. I live as property, 24/7, TPE no limits completely(all terms I dislike). I am submissive personality. Why am I not called a slave? Because it is His wish not to. With respects to Your Master, you are called a slave because that how you see yourself. I do not. Slavery to me is completely non consensual and forced. Not consensual non consent as in its in a persona spirit or soul - but that a slave is one held in chains, from birth or after - in a totally non consensual manner. Now thats MY definition and because it is HIS. Slavery exists outside wiitwd and from my personal perspective, I dont call myself a slave just because its a definition that exists differently in mine and outside of wiitwd. That makes me, no different to however you conduct your submission and service. Its just a different preference of name because of my own moral code. That makes your 'slavery' no less important - but its my moral stance I have upon myself, not others - and when people continue to push it onto others is both lacking in tolerance, understanding and respect. Peace and Love

wipmebeetme100 -> RE: Submissive/Slave (10/27/2005 1:22:43 PM)
quote: Can someone please tell me the difference between a submissive and a slave? In my world....this is how i would describe the difference. As a submissive i had the ability to negotiate.....as a slave it is immediate obedience, without question and/or hesitation. cathy

RainGod -> RE: Submissive/Slave (10/27/2005 5:57:51 PM)
heh heh... yep. Somehow I just knew this thread would cause more of a ruckus than a mouse in a burlesque show....lol

Hallittlelolita -> RE: Submissive/Slave (10/27/2005 6:17:19 PM)
Hi there, i am a slave and the difference between a sub and a slave well a sub gets to make some decisions, i a slave hands all the control to my Master and i obey Him and follow all His orders. Another thing is this slave dosent have safewords and slaves usually dont have safewords. Sincerely andie and her Master Hal

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Submissive/Slave (10/27/2005 7:05:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hallittlelolita Hi there, i am a slave and the difference between a sub and a slave well a sub gets to make some decisions, i a slave hands all the control to my Master and i obey Him and follow all His orders. Another thing is this slave dosent have safewords and slaves usually dont have safewords. Sincerely andie and her Master Hal But many slaves are expected to make decisions- they are expected to take burdens and responsibilies from their masters and take care of them on their own. And many submissives do not use safewords as well. I play with my boys, who are not slaves nor my submissives but we don't use safewords.

OsideGirl -> RE: Submissive/Slave (10/27/2005 8:23:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross I'm not picking on you, or your post, just parsing this out again. quote: ORIGINAL: plantlady64 Hello There, A submissive is someone who owns themselves and chooses to submit to whom she or her Dom chooses she submit to. A sub also has a say in what she will or will not do. Many slaves are given a choice on many things. And to add another view: I'm an owned and collared submissive that is in a 24/7 D/s relationship and married to my Master. Where does that fit with your definition? quote: quote: While both sub & slave are usually permitted a hard list of un-acceptable things, a sub in the middle of something being introduced at a later time has the option to re-negotiate her position a good slave just does what her Master wants of her as it's His will not hers that counts. Sounds pretty on paper, when it comes to key issues, I've never seen it actually work out so sweetly. A slave friend of mine had a husband/master who told her to stop working and stay at home. She hated it, she felt depressed, she fought and cried. She obeyed of course. But she also tried to talk to him and and certainly did not "just do what he wants because it's his will." I've joked about renegotiation, but the reality is that the contract is in place and is open ended. So again, your definition doesn't apply. quote: quote: A slave is bound to the word of the contract she signed. Lots of slaves don't have contracts. And how is this different than submissives? As a submissive I have a contract. quote: quote: A slave is owned property, not just a mate, but a possession as well. Not all slaves consider themselves property. And as a submissive, I consider myself to be his property. quote: quote: Over all to be willing to allow someone else to own you as a slave is a deeper mental submissive act than just being submissive on your own accord. Sincerely, sub suzanne And that's a big issue. Slaves are no more/deeper/cooler/sweeter/awesomer than submissives. Any perpetuation of that myth should cease and desist. Slaves are not more submissive, better, higher or whatever. Just different.

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