RE: Immigration law: something's got to give.

RE: Immigration law: something's got to give. (Full Version)

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Irishknight -> RE: Immigration law: something's got to give. (6/4/2008 8:11:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro Google is your friend. Maybe you might try looking up political protest news and find out how being sequestered behind fences miles from an event, rubber bullets, riot cops, and tasers are now the norm on the protest scene. Believe it or not, I am not being obstinant. The rubber bullets caught my interest. The British quit using them 20 years ago after finding out that they were no less deadly than others. I remember reading reports of irish protesters killed by these things. Do you have any links you could share?

MstrObjectmaker -> RE: Immigration law: something's got to give. (6/4/2008 8:16:31 AM)
Personally......it seems rather strange to me that a country that was built on the backs of immigrants from all over the world should have such a draconian immigration system....... I mean the only section of the US population that can be truly classed as "American" are the North American Indian nations and look what a bum deal they've been given by you other American immigrants...... And anybody who holds with this idea that immigrants somehow dampen down what it means to be American.......shame on you...... As far as I can see immigrants are only Okay as long as they stick to those jobs that you "American" citizens won't touch with a barge pole.......as soon as they begin to pursue higher education and a better way of life you want to deport them...... As far as I am concerned anybody who has the shear guts and determination to up roots and follow their dream of a better life should be welcomed by the country that invented pioneerism....... Because one day the shoe just might be on the other foot........

cjan -> RE: Immigration law: something's got to give. (6/4/2008 8:23:09 AM)
Article in NY Times RE this topic. Well done, imo The Great Immigration Panic: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/03/opinion/03tue1.html?em&ex=1212724800&en=7c6e9e46b8924b64&ei=5070

rulemylife -> RE: Immigration law: something's got to give. (6/4/2008 8:23:48 AM)
How ironic then that this country's "restrictive" laws regarding political freedom allows groups like the Klan, the Black Panthers, The American Nazi Party, The Aztlan Group, to exist, isn't it? And you can express your views about the "repression" of political expression running rampant in this country freely without having to worry about being carted off to jail unless you deliberately break the laws against inciting others to violence or to overthrow of the legitimately elected government. [/quote] How ironic is it that if you want to express your views you are cordoned off in sheep pens called "free speech zones" that are kept far away from the person you are trying to protest. As far as being hauled off to jail: •[image]http://my.eimg.net/x.gif[/image]Tampabay: Protesters kept at a distance; three arrested That's because the 150 or so protesters were kept in a cordoned-off "First Amendment zone" about a half-mile away, at the corner of Dale Mabry Highway and ... http://www.sptimes.com/News/060501/TampaBay/Protesters_kept_at_a_.shtml - 28k - Similar Pages sbm("rn_6");

rulemylife -> RE: Immigration law: something's got to give. (6/4/2008 8:40:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant quote: ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro quote: ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1 I didn't know that plaque was part of the immigration law??? Did I say they were? My point was that our reality falls far short of our ideals and that we might as well tear down our national icons as they now mean nothing at all. Is that any clearer for you? And my argument is that our reality may sometimes fall far short of our ideals but at least we strive to reach them. And is it not strange that the communist countries of the Soviet Union and China...those havens of lofty ideals and non-repression...have found their biggest success as they have begun to incorporate our "wicked" capitalistic economic model? It's also interesting to note that America lost more than a hundred thousand soldiers in Korea and Vietnam because we were upholding our lofty ideals against the "repression" of communism, specifically that China's influence would spread. Yet, China is still communist and still as repressive as ever. Is it not strange how corporate greed and the puppets they control in Washington always seem to trump those lofty ideals under the guise of spreading democracy? I'm seeing a lot of money being made but I'm still not seeing any democracy over there.

Irishknight -> RE: Immigration law: something's got to give. (6/4/2008 8:43:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MstrObjectmaker As far as I can see immigrants are only Okay as long as they stick to those jobs that you "American" citizens won't touch with a barge pole.......as soon as they begin to pursue higher education and a better way of life you want to deport them...... Actually, the revers is too often the case. We want educated professionals but we get illegals who take the jobs from our lower classes. I like working outside jobs not because I am too dumb to do other jobs but because I like them. I have enjoyed working in dirty factories and diggin' ditches. I like working in the fields and taking care of lawns and hedges. I discovered as an electronics tech that when I get a job that keeps me inside, I start getting ... testy. Like a rabid pit bull. It has always been easy for me to get a job and work my ass off until the last ten years or so. Now, everywhere I go the jobs are filled by people who snuck into my country and who are getting paid under the table as often as not. That means they aren't even paying taxes. I see tons of Americans willing to do those jobs getting turned away becaus of illegals. Hell yeah, we should deport them.

slaveboyforyou -> RE: Immigration law: something's got to give. (6/4/2008 8:45:41 AM)
I'm torn on the issue of our immigration policies. We have to have rules and guidelines, and we can't stretch them for one person while remaining rigid on other people. When you start bending rules, your throw equality under the law right out the window. But, I am not heartless. I want to see others prosper and live happy, full lives where ever they come from. Our immigration laws definitely need some reform and some tweaking, but they are what they are at the moment. A lot of people seek political asylum in this country. You have to ask yourself who is left waiting because of people like the young man in this article. Is some gay guy from Iran going to be sent back to his death because of this? Is a Burmese refugee going to be sent back to be tortured and imprisoned because of this? We have a process for a reason. I find it sad that this young man might get sent back. But Armenia is not the worst place in the world. He can try again.

kittinSol -> RE: Immigration law: something's got to give. (6/4/2008 8:48:50 AM)
Trust me, the situation is as bad in Europe...

rulemylife -> RE: Immigration law: something's got to give. (6/4/2008 8:50:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Here we have a perfect example of a kid that is brilliant in school, about to get in to a good university... and the authorities deport him. Pragmatically, it's brain drain. Humanely, it's horrible. This country's richness comes from the great diversity of its inhabitants: everybody here comes from elsewhere. I am not in favour of illegal immigration: but there is a fine line between applying the law and the law being a bonehead. Specific cases demand specific reflexion: it's not cattle we're talking about, but people. While I don't necessarily disagree, I have to wonder, if he dropped out of high school and was working at McDonald's would you be arguing as passionately? Would this story have even made it into the news if that were the case?

kittinSol -> RE: Immigration law: something's got to give. (6/4/2008 8:57:02 AM)
Yes, I would - the reason why the story caught my attention is that it was in the news, and we know why it was in the news, because he is a 'deserving' young man. However I was driven to post the thread because of his young age and because of the fact that he is obviously established in American society and probably completely ignorant of the place where he is about to be dispatched to like an unwanted parcel. I can't even begin to imagine what it must be like. Can you?

Hippiekinkster -> RE: Immigration law: something's got to give. (6/4/2008 9:03:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cjan Article in NY Times RE this topic. Well done, imo The Great Immigration Panic: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/03/opinion/03tue1.html?em&ex=1212724800&en=7c6e9e46b8924b64&ei=5070 Great article, CJ, TY. Rightwingers just luuuurve to be freaked out about shit, don't they? Commies, pot, illegals, women's reproductive rights, tewwowism, gay marriage, poor people, affirmative action, Cuba, Iran, Chavez, the UN, guns, yada yada. And the Gomers get all wound up because they are told by Hannity, Rash, that scrawny mouthy bitch with the Adam's Apple, et cetera ad infinitum that somewhere, somehow, an undocumented worker might be getting a band-aid at an ER or a Negro (horror of horrors!) might be getting a scholarship, or two lezbeens want to have a certain document. Glad I'm not rabidly insane.

celticlord2112 -> RE: Immigration law: something's got to give. (6/4/2008 9:09:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Yes, I would - the reason why the story caught my attention is that it was in the news, and we know why it was in the news, because he is a 'deserving' young man. However I was driven to post the thread because of his young age and because of the fact that he is obviously established in American society and probably completely ignorant of the place where he is about to be dispatched to like an unwanted parcel. "Deserving"? Deserving of what?

rulemylife -> RE: Immigration law: something's got to give. (6/4/2008 9:12:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Yes, I would - the reason why the story caught my attention is that it was in the news, and we know why it was in the news, because he is a 'deserving' young man. However I was driven to post the thread because of his young age and because of the fact that he is obviously established in American society and probably completely ignorant of the place where he is about to be dispatched to like an unwanted parcel. I can't even begin to imagine what it must be like. Can you? No, but there's seems to be more to the story than meets the eye. I'm not really familiar with it and I'm not well-versed in immigration law, but there are many things here that don't make sense. Earlier posts suggested they were granted asylum from the Soviet Union and his deportation was valid because that entity no longer existed. If I have the timeline in this case right though, they were given asylum after the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991. I also don't understand, after having been granted asylum, that they were not able to attain citizenship in 16 years.

OmegaG -> RE: Immigration law: something's got to give. (6/4/2008 9:13:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Yes, I would - the reason why the story caught my attention is that it was in the news, and we know why it was in the news, because he is a 'deserving' young man. However I was driven to post the thread because of his young age and because of the fact that he is obviously established in American society and probably completely ignorant of the place where he is about to be dispatched to like an unwanted parcel. I can't even begin to imagine what it must be like. Can you? Years ago I had to watch my son's day care worker pack up and move back to a country that she hadn't seen since she was 2 months old. She was doing it alone because her parents were here on a work visa and she was only allowed to say so long as she continued her education. She was 24, a college graduate and was returning to a culture that she did not remember. I actually do wish that people who are brought into this country when they are too small to remember any other country be given special consideration.

kittinSol -> RE: Immigration law: something's got to give. (6/4/2008 9:15:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Yes, I would - the reason why the story caught my attention is that it was in the news, and we know why it was in the news, because he is a 'deserving' young man. However I was driven to post the thread because of his young age and because of the fact that he is obviously established in American society and probably completely ignorant of the place where he is about to be dispatched to like an unwanted parcel. "Deserving"? Deserving of what? That's the spin that the media gave to the story, which is why I used quotation marks: do I have to explain everything to you?

Irishknight -> RE: Immigration law: something's got to give. (6/4/2008 9:17:42 AM)
I have a silly question. How many more deserving immigrants could we take in if we weren't already overburdened with illegals? If we spent more money enforcing our borders, maybe we could find a place for young men like this one.

kittinSol -> RE: Immigration law: something's got to give. (6/4/2008 9:21:29 AM)
Yeah, well I hear that if it wasn't for illegal immigrants there would be nobody here to pick up the shit or the tomatoes or look after the kiddies... so I don't really know how to answer your question. I think the 'illegal immigration' scare is much the product of jingoism and demagogy. Not denying there might be a problem... but I'm not convinced how the pros weigh in against the cons.

celticlord2112 -> RE: Immigration law: something's got to give. (6/4/2008 9:23:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol That's the spin that the media gave to the story, which is why I used quotation marks: do I have to explain everything to you? Kittin, you don't "have" to do anything. The general form and structure of intelligent discussion is that questions are asked, and then answered. I asked a question. I shall rephrase. Of what do YOU feel he is deserving, and why?

kittinSol -> RE: Immigration law: something's got to give. (6/4/2008 9:36:51 AM)
I thought my opinion was clear: "deserving" or not, this young man should be allowed to remain in this country.

servantheart -> RE: Immigration law: something's got to give. (6/4/2008 9:40:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Yeah, well I hear that if it wasn't for illegal immigrants there would be nobody here to pick up the shit or the tomatoes or look after the kiddies... Some of us look after our own kiddies, thank you.

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