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RE: I did not know this - 6/5/2008 12:43:28 PM

celticlord2112

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quote:

ORIGINAL: orfunboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber

I don't think so... he only has the girls who spent most of their time getting drunk and disorderly. (At least during the first term.) Much the same as their Dad did. Oh, yeah, and doing blow...

Doesn't cocaine make you paranoid? Maybe that's why he committed treason by outing Plame in order to penalize Wilson. All for calling him a liar about his reasons for marching us into an unneeded war.

Are you still going to hate him as much after january? What will you do with all your time? All your anger and hate?

Turn it on the next occupant of the Oval Office, of course!

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RE: I did not know this - 6/5/2008 5:38:11 PM

Alumbrado

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ORIGINAL: philosophy

FR

....seeing as some posters have poured scorn on my idea that those who teach children and those who save lives are as worthy of respect as military personnel, could they tell me just what those military people are defending?

Pointing out that plenty of people have been both military and teachers. doctors, et al. isn't pouring scorn, it just isn't buying into your logical fallacy.

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RE: I did not know this - 6/5/2008 6:17:46 PM

DomAviator

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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

FR

....seeing as some posters have poured scorn on my idea that those who teach children and those who save lives are as worthy of respect as military personnel, could they tell me just what those military people are defending?

Just a little wake up call.... Doctors and nurses for the most part do not "save lives".... In reality most doctors and nurses NEVER in their whol fucking career "save a life"... They are for the most part "human body repairmen" and "drug passer outers" who work out of a cookbook.

As an example - my exwifes daughter was highly prone to ear infectioms... It was the same ritual every 2 weeks. Make appointment, go in, pay copay, pick up pink shit (bubble gum flavored liquid amoxicillin).... The motherfucking pediatrician probably lost his Mercedes when I got my flight surgeon to write me a scrip for ammoxicillin with an ungodly number of refills so we could stop seeing him every two weeks and bleeding my insurance company.

However, the childs quality of life was improved dramatically cause it was no longer pull your ears and scream all night till we can see the pediatrician tommorrow - instead it was "go to the fridge and get the pink shit".

I see a doctor, my flight surgeon, every six months and he has NEVER saved my life. He just signs a form that I need signed to excerise the privelages of my airmans certificate. Hes a pretty nice guy so I can usually talk him into writing me scrips that I can keep on hand "just in case" so that I dont have to see another doctor... For example, I have lots of Ciproflaxin on hand in case the anthrax shit started again and some amyl nitrate and atropine injections in case there was an organophosphate leak from one of the refineries or a chemical weapons attack....

Admittedly SOME doctors - ER docs, trauma surgeons, etc save lives... But for every one of them there are 300 + family practicioners, dermatologists, opthamologists, general practicioners etc who will never in their whole career see anything more life threatening than a cold sore...

My dentist, who I love dearly and who has done amazing work on giving me a million dollar smile (Implants, replace metal fillings, invisilign and cosmetic bonding) and who I reccomend highly isnt a nominee for sainthood. From me alone, she has gotten 24,412 reasons to do her good deeds for mankind and I dont begrudge her a penny of it... She is amazingly good at what she does but its for $24,412 not the love of humanity....

The practice of medicine is about making money, not saving lives and dont let TV shows like ER fool you into believing otherwise. Even in an ER, most of the time its the paramedics who save the life not the doctor. In my last defib class, I seem to recall a stat that a person arriving at an ER in cardiac arrest has less than a 4% chance of survival - hence the reason AED's are in the hands of policemen, mall guards, flight attendants, etc.... In case of a cardiac arrest whether you live or die is determined by prehospital care... In the case of Trauma it is determined by how fast they can extricate package you and get you on an operating table - there is something called "The Golden Hour" after which your chances hit the toilet... Hence the reason for aeromedical evacuations....

< Message edited by DomAviator -- 6/5/2008 6:30:07 PM >

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RE: I did not know this - 6/5/2008 6:50:47 PM

SeeksOnlyOne

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i would hazard a guess that the boring, routine practice of preventitive medicine does, in fact, save as many lives a year as a truama unit.

each job is important in the grand scheme of things. imho anyhow.

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RE: I did not know this - 6/5/2008 7:11:21 PM

kittinSol

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Urgentists save lives. Obstetricians help bring about new lives. Oncologists help cancer patients. Nurses practice intensive care. Burn specialists save lives. But no, doctors don't save lives

.

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RE: I did not know this - 6/5/2008 7:39:46 PM

servantheart

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RE: I did not know this - 6/5/2008 9:07:44 PM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
people who are trained to murder, maim and annihiliate

     Yes, Kitten. That is what we are trained to do, in one way or another. My specific training was in making damn sure those who flew off to do it had the facilities they needed, but killing anyone who tried to stop me from doing that was also in the job description.   Murderers, one and all, brutal thugs, who have made their lives disposable to their country, for the sake of your right to disrespect them.

     About 1% of the population actually chooses to join the military. How would you ordinarily feel about about painting such a minority with such a brush? Pay a bit more attention when the subject of military service comes up, and you'll find that veterans are speaking from every angle of the socio-political spectrum in these forums, and a lot of them are pretty smart and thoughtful. Others are idiots, and at least one more only makes sense when you are 3/4 drunk. How casually you degrade them all...

     Yes. We are willing cogs in the war machine. You should be grateful people like veterans make apparently very sheltered worldviews possible.

< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 6/5/2008 9:10:23 PM >

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RE: I did not know this - 6/5/2008 9:24:53 PM

kittinSol

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I am grateful for those who were conscripted and died in real wars. I feel sorry for the poor kids who are being sent to their slaughter today, in Iraq, for the spurious reasons we all know too well. I am angry at Vietnam and at the men whose lives were ruined by lies and dissimulation. I cry when I see the news and the results of bombing campaigns, wherever it is in the world, and the maimed bodies of the children and the civilians.

I also spent many days on the battlefields of Northern France and Belgium, exploring the hundreds of thousands of graves of soldiers of all nationalities, fallen during the First World War at Ypres... I come from a continent that was devastated by war. My direct history was partly written by what happened during WWII... refugees, survivors from the camps, escapees... we were lucky. Thank god the allies were there for us, for my family.

But I have no respect a priori for the military profession. Why should I? As Zensee reminded the thread, people here have been making gleeful alllusions and detailed reports of their military expeditions and the fun they were... The military may have its use, but trust me: civilisans do not want to hear them explain how much fun they're having when they're dumping napalm on to little kids. That, too, is disrespect.

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RE: I did not know this - 6/5/2008 9:29:31 PM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

people here have been making gleeful alllusions and detailed reports of their military expeditions and the fun they were... The military may have its use, but trust me: civilisans do not want to hear them explain how much fun they're having when they're dumping napalm on to little kids. That, too, is disrespect.

And you are coloring all by the actions of a few. What would we call that if it was done on a basis of ethnicity? Isn't there a word for that??? Hmmm...

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RE: I did not know this - 6/5/2008 9:33:11 PM

kittinSol

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

people here have been making gleeful alllusions and detailed reports of their military expeditions and the fun they were... The military may have its use, but trust me: civilisans do not want to hear them explain how much fun they're having when they're dumping napalm on to little kids. That, too, is disrespect.

And you are coloring all by the actions of a few. What would we call that if it was done on a basis of ethnicity? Isn't there a word for that??? Hmmm...

Are you suggesting that I should block the individuals that have tainted my vision, so that I may regain clarity and focus?

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RE: I did not know this - 6/5/2008 9:40:14 PM

celticlord2112

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quote:

The military may have its use, but trust me: civilisans do not want to hear them explain how much fun they're having when they're dumping napalm on to little kids. That, too, is disrespect.

hmmm....and how many military veterans here have done that? One.

Indulging that prejudicial bigoted side again, Kittin?

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RE: I did not know this - 6/5/2008 9:41:19 PM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Are you suggesting that I should block the individuals that have tainted my vision, so that I may regain clarity and focus?

Blocking is a personal sort of decision, Kitten. I reserve it to the perpetually foolish, but whatever works for you...

Getting past the denial of personal prejudice is often the healthiest first step.

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RE: I did not know this - 6/5/2008 9:48:58 PM

kittinSol

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Celticlord once again, you're barging in the middle of a conversation that you haven't fully followed... My words have a context that you have deprived them of and they were addressed to Rich.

Anyway, Rich... the denial of personal prejudice... but yes, I'd be happy to find out about your side of the story, for example. Do you think you could spare some time enlightening me? I can do this.Well, I'm ready to clear my mind of the antiwar fog and to try and learn from scratch :-).

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RE: I did not know this - 6/5/2008 9:49:14 PM

servantheart

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

people here have been making gleeful alllusions and detailed reports of their military expeditions and the fun they were... The military may have its use, but trust me: civilisans do not want to hear them explain how much fun they're having when they're dumping napalm on to little kids. That, too, is disrespect.

And you are coloring all by the actions of a few. What would we call that if it was done on a basis of ethnicity? Isn't there a word for that??? Hmmm...

Are you suggesting that I should block the individuals that have tainted my vision, so that I may regain clarity and focus?

I don't see where He said that. He is merely pointing out that you have allowed the actions of a few to color your opinion of the ones who served nobly. In any group of people, there will always be loose cannons, those who don't follow the rules. They do not speak or act on behalf of all. When I think of those who serve(d) in the military, I see a collective group of men and women who are deserving of my deepest respect and gratitude, for they have earned the RIGHT to be respected. People who would look down their noses at these brave souls utterly disgust me.

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RE: I did not know this - 6/5/2008 9:54:40 PM

celticlord2112

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quote:

Celticlord once again, you're barging in the middle of a conversation that you haven't fully followed... My words have a context that you have deprived them of and they were addressed to Rich.

Once again, you duck out on answering a simple direct question.

Qui tacit consentire, kittin.

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RE: I did not know this - 6/5/2008 9:54:48 PM

kittinSol

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You are kind to come and help me see more clearly. Rich had already answered that bit of the conversation you so kindly took under your wing to better explain to me... Thank you for reminding me that the personel isn't to blame, that it is their chiefs that send them to war, the strategists that call for the missiles to be sent. It is them I don't respect.

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RE: I did not know this - 6/5/2008 9:56:46 PM

kittinSol

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I was starting to have an interesting exchange with Rich and you and your girlfriend barged in and confused the game for me. Interferance, you know? I hope we'll pick it up again later.

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RE: I did not know this - 6/5/2008 9:56:48 PM

servantheart

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And thank you ever so much for reminding me that some people are beyond hope. Have a nice day, kittn

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RE: I did not know this - 6/5/2008 9:56:50 PM

celticlord2112

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ORIGINAL: kittinSol

You are kind to come and help me see more clearly. Rich had already answered that bit of the conversation you so kindly took under your wing to better explain to me... Thank you for reminding me that the personel isn't to blame, that it is their chiefs that send them to war, the strategists that call for the missiles to be sent. It is them I don't respect.

Very good....admitting that you've been harboring a bias against military personnel is an excellent first step. You're making progress, kittin.....

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RE: I did not know this - 6/5/2008 9:57:31 PM

DomAviator

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Are you suggesting that I should block the individuals that have tainted my vision, so that I may regain clarity and focus?

Blocking is a personal sort of decision, Kitten. I reserve it to the perpetually foolish, but whatever works for you...

Getting past the denial of personal prejudice is often the healthiest first step.

YES! I encourage her to block me. I blocked her long ago and only see her when she is qouted. I would say a recipricol block would be a wise move and would go far towards cutting down Mod 11's work load.

As for the "Napalm Sticks to Kids" cadence. Thats a fact of life. Thats how soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines, and coastguardsmen are trained. I mean come on - who among us hasnt had an offensive cadence in ocs/ boot / basic or whatever it was called in your service? I remember running in the pensacola heat singing all kinds of shit...

"The local girls they look so fine
but that pussys worse than a damn land mine
They'll love you till you get your wings
but that fucking ring it changes things...

Officer Candiate we really click
let me suck your big thick dick
three fingers in and shell say maybe
nine months later its a fucking baby!

The local girls they seem so nice,
the pussys hot but their hearts like ice.
Your ship wont even leave the dock
when they'll be on a marines cock! "

OK - Offensive cadences are part of the training. Period. It builds unit cohesion... Its FUNNY, and it makes the miles melt away.... Celtic, I can only imagine the little ditties you had at Paris Island??? Marine gunnies seem to have a special knack for it....

As for the comments about "those who served nobly" - Uh, I was one of those. I had outstanding fitness reports, and was selected as an istructor.. The reality of the job is that it is to kill people and break shit, and it is not a place for the sensitive. But if not for those of us who have the stomach for it, society would decay and the sensitive caring types would be eaten alive in a dog eat dog world of anarchy... We were the tip of the spear and we had to be sharp... you dont fight with a lace doily.

< Message edited by DomAviator -- 6/5/2008 10:05:01 PM >

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