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girl4you2 -> why (10/27/2005 7:05:11 PM)
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perverseangelic -> RE: why do Masters say they want intelligent subs? (10/27/2005 7:22:16 PM)
For my partner, it means much more to him that a thinking, creative being would willingly give herself to him. He doesn't find it nearly as appealing to have someone belong to him would could easily belong to anyone. That someone who he respects as a thinking person could surrender herself to him makes it infinatly more pleasurable.

IronBear -> RE: why do Masters say they want intelligent subs? (10/27/2005 7:27:48 PM)
For my own choice, I prefer some one who is intelligent so she can contribute to discussions and I can bounce ideas and thoughts off her and know I'll get an honest and hopefully informed responce. this has nothing to do with her being my kajira (who btw would probably also be my PA as far as business and general things goes as befitting for a first girl). I'd hope that she wopuld have the dedication to tell me: "Master your about to put your foot in it .. With respect"

Vancouver_cinful -> RE: why do Masters say they want intelligent subs? (10/27/2005 7:42:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: girl4you2 then not want to hear anything of free thought? Just because a dominant may have the final say in something doesn't mean a dominant doesn't want input. As a matter of fact many dominants love to hear every thought the sub has, in order to better understand the sub's mind, and to get ideas for future play, etc. An intelligent sub can enhance an ongoing D/s relationship by bringing in ideas and freeing the dominant up from making the small decisions so they can focus on the bigger things. Cin

girl4you2 -> RE: why do Masters say they want intelligent subs? (10/27/2005 7:44:05 PM)
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girl4you2 -> RE: why do Masters say they want intelligent subs? (10/27/2005 7:47:04 PM)
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Padriag -> RE: why do Masters say they want intelligent subs? (10/27/2005 7:51:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: girl4you2 i don't understand this at all. what they want and what they then expect seem to be at odds. why ask for a woman with a brain, but then not want to hear anything of free thought? I would say that if you've encountered a dominant asking for an intelligent submissive, but then had no interest in her mind, then you found someone who didn't really want what they asked for. But don't think that is true of every dominant that seeks intelligence. Some of us very much do want what we ask for, a beautiful mind thinking and learning and sharing. Someone who not only listens, but responds. Someone who surprises us with new ideas, new concepts, new perspectives. There are those of us who are not afraid of questions. For some of us, a mindless automaton would be very dull.

gretchen -> RE: why do Masters say they want intelligent subs? (10/27/2005 7:52:08 PM)
It's hard for me to believe that there's people (not only masters) in this planet (or any other planet) not seeking an intelligent kind of interaction. Why spend time and effort with someone that lacks of such an interesting human feature? Why bother teaching, and learning together, then? We need feedback from others too. We are not talking to the air here. It's nessesary.

OsideGirl -> RE: why do Masters say they want intelligent subs? (10/27/2005 7:54:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: girl4you2 i don't understand this at all. what they want and what they then expect seem to be at odds. why ask for a woman with a brain, but then not want to hear anything of free thought? That's not entirely correct. Some Dominants/Masters actually want someone that actually has free thought. Master enjoys lively debates and appreciates my point of. That doesn't mean that he does what I want, but it means that he enjoys what I contribute.

Vancouver_cinful -> RE: why do Masters say they want intelligent subs? (10/27/2005 7:55:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: girl4you2 but what of the many dominants who only want rosy pictures of bliss and no rocky roads? i've not seen a plethora of dominants who really want free thought that doesn't echo their ideas only. Are you talking about cyber dominantion or in real life? The dominants I know through my local kink community are not like those you describe above, at all. quote: what are the bigger things? The bigger issues in a D/s relationship might be whether they play at public parties, add a new sub/slave to their home, or financial matters if the dominant handles all the money. Different D/s relationships function differently. A sub who's intelligent won't need to be watch and directed every minute of the day, and that leaves the dominant free for bigger issues. Does that make sense? Cin

IronBear -> RE: why do Masters say they want intelligent subs? (10/27/2005 8:28:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: girl4you2 quote: ORIGINAL: IronBear For my own choice, I prefer some one who is intelligent so she can contribute to discussions and I can bounce ideas and thoughts off her and know I'll get an honest and hopefully informed responce. this has nothing to do with her being my kajira (who btw would probably also be my PA as far as business and general things goes as befitting for a first girl). I'd hope that she wopuld have the dedication to tell me: "Master your about to put your foot in it .. With respect" would that this were the norm.... Amongst my Gorean Peers this is the norm

pinkpleasures -> RE: why do Masters say they want intelligent subs? (10/27/2005 8:33:16 PM)
quote: Some of us very much do want what we ask for, a beautiful mind thinking and learning and sharing. Someone who not only listens, but responds. Someone who surprises us with new ideas, new concepts, new perspectives. There are those of us who are not afraid of questions. Padraig i respectfully ask the following questions: 1. What is meant when anyone says they want intelligence in their partner? Do they mean "above-average intelligence"? Educational or career success? 2. Does anyone recognise "emotional intelligence" and if so, do you think it can exist apart from above-average IQ? 3. What of people of normal intelligence? Are they attractive to you? 4. Is there a place for a person with below-average intelligence in BDSM? Just curious...to me "intelligence" is not a fixed term, communicating the same ideas to us all at once. pinkpleasures

girl4you2 -> RE: why do Masters say they want intelligent subs? (10/27/2005 8:48:49 PM)
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girl4you2 -> RE: why do Masters say they want intelligent subs? (10/27/2005 8:51:16 PM)
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girl4you2 -> RE: why do Masters say they want intelligent subs? (10/27/2005 9:14:03 PM)
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obis -> RE: why do Masters say they want intelligent subs? (10/27/2005 9:57:12 PM)
I know that I'm one of those Doms who always, always says I want an intelligent sub. That doesn't necessarily mean brain surgeon (though I wouldn't object!) but it means someone who is perfectly capable of taking care of themselves, being independent, holding up their end of a conversation, contributing ideas, etc. When someone like THAT submits, it is much more meaningful than someone who really can't function on their own anyways. And also, this is a real relationship -- I think many of us would like to find that long-term partner who makes us happy, and I'd hate to spend the next 50 years making small talk with someone who can't follow the conversation or is uninterested in learning. I think the best analogy would be an employer/employee relationship -- just because the boss is the one who has the final say in everything, doesn't mean they are uninterested in the skills, abilities and thoughts of those under them. In the military there's a saying that the difference between a good officer and a bad officer is that the good officer listens to his NCO. Rank doesn't make you omniscient, or give you experience in things you haven't done before.

FangsNfeet -> RE: why do Masters say they want intelligent subs? (10/27/2005 10:17:44 PM)
Why do subs want inteligent masters? I always want my sub to speak freely to me. She just has to give me her opinion in a respectful tone and manner. We discuss, debate, disagree, argue, and conclude on many topics together. Besides that, pet is a very well organized person when it comes to bills and handleing electronics/computer stuff. The two of us have melded and full filled in each other the things we were not good at on our own. Pet is good with handling online banking and scheduling our bills to be paid on time with out the hassel of calling people or mailing letters. I'm good at telling the upstairs neighbor up stairs to SHUT UP when he starts screaming and stomping at 2am in the morning. She's good at programing our TV shows to record with the DVR, I'm good at getting our Dog back when she slips out of her leash due to a stressfull situation envolving another dog. Besides, bimbos just bore me to death. My idea of a companion/sub is not someone just for 24/7 sex. Creativity, mutual interest, and debatefull conversation are things that I like to do with my pet as well.

girl4you2 -> RE: why do Masters say they want intelligent subs? (10/27/2005 10:19:39 PM)
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empresschaos -> RE: why do Masters say they want intelligent subs? (10/27/2005 10:34:57 PM)
I'm sorry you've been having such cruddy luck with doms, but I wonder if this isn't a bit of a personals-ad paradox. The really intelligent folks I've met might bill themselves as "clever" or "witty" or "articulate" when pressed, yet they rarely call themselves out as "intelligent." Likewise, everyone I've ever considered to be intellectually vacant believed themselves to be devastatingly brilliant. And if ego and stupidity don't make the ugliest combo under the sun, what on earth does? How many times have we read something like this : "um... i'd liek 2 meet anyone intelligant who isnt into drama and can b themselves."? shudders Nonetheless.... maybe being more specific about what you want from him, girl4u2, will yield some better results. As a female sub, you've got a virtual buffet of male doms to choose from. You don't have to search submissively, and what matters most (for now, anyway) is that you find what you're looking for, not the other way around.

Padriag -> RE: why do Masters say they want intelligent subs? (10/27/2005 10:34:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pinkpleasures quote: Some of us very much do want what we ask for, a beautiful mind thinking and learning and sharing. Someone who not only listens, but responds. Someone who surprises us with new ideas, new concepts, new perspectives. There are those of us who are not afraid of questions. Padraig i respectfully ask the following questions: 1. What is meant when anyone says they want intelligence in their partner? Do they mean "above-average intelligence"? Educational or career success? 2. Does anyone recognise "emotional intelligence" and if so, do you think it can exist apart from above-average IQ? 3. What of people of normal intelligence? Are they attractive to you? 4. Is there a place for a person with below-average intelligence in BDSM? Just curious...to me "intelligence" is not a fixed term, communicating the same ideas to us all at once. pinkpleasures I can't say what anyone means, only what I mean. With me, I could care less about career success and formal education is not very important to me. I'm more impressed with someone who has done a good job of educating themselves. I look for an active, inquisitive, imaginative mind. In general I find it is easier for me to fit with someone of above average IQ because my own IQ is... well... significantly above average. Not sure what you mean by emotional intelligence. I can say, as I have said elsehwere, that despite being an athiest myself, not a spiritual person, who has no use for religion in any form... I tend to attract and be attracted to spiritual women. If you've ever watched Dharma and Greg... I'm Greg, most of the women in my life have been Dharma's. That simple fact never ceases to both amaze, confound and amuse me. I do find that most of those women tend to be very in touch with their emotions, one in particular helped me with some issues of my own. I have also learned that they generally see the world very differently from me, and that different perspective can be refreshing and enlightening. People of average intelligence can be attractive to me if they have the right qualities that I look for. Beyond intelligence I look for creativity, artistic ability, musical talent, imagination and so forth. A person of average intelligence can still share many of my interests, though they may have to work a bit harder to keep up. And actually, I might be inclined to admire someone who had to work harder to keep up, and still did so. Certainly there is a place for people of below average intelligence. Just probably not with me. I think it would be difficult for me to try an make such a relationship work over the long term without her eventually feeling excluded from large parts of my life.

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