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RE: Secret plan to keep Iraq under US control - 6/5/2008 1:11:02 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

So now I'm a socialist? Ever heard of ad hominen?

Simple fact, Iran isn't going to take control of Iraq if we leave. Al Sadr is the guy most likely to come out on top, biggest militia and most supporters, and he isn't a particular favorite of the Iranians.

Likely enough what would happen is Turkey would invade and cease the Kurdish oil producing region while the Sunni Shiite civil war would drag on for years.

With the US borrowing less the dollar strengthens on the international market which will bring the price of crude down. On top of that a DoJ willing to investigate trust activities will make those enriching themselves by monkeying with the oil prices back off and that should burst the oil bubble quite completely.


Yeah Cyber, that's a TERRIBLE name to call someone!
You need to appologise!
Socialists are the most fucking degenerate, dangerous, disgusting, dirty, filthy, scumbag  people in the world!
Cyber, you really went over the top this time!
Now appologise to DomKen for calling him a "Socialist!"
(Shudders)

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 6/5/2008 1:15:53 PM >

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RE: Secret plan to keep Iraq under US control - 6/5/2008 1:13:07 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Socialists are the most fucking degenerate, dangerous, disgusting, dirty, filthy, scumbag  people in the world!



Really? Last time I heard, it was the [insert nationality or ethnic group of your choice].

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RE: Secret plan to keep Iraq under US control - 6/5/2008 1:15:41 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
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quote:

Yeah Cyber, that's a TERRIBLE name to call someone!
You need to appologise!
Socialists are the most fucking degenerate, dangerous, disgusting, dirty, filthy, scumbag people in the world!
Cyber, you really went over the top this time!
Now appologise to DomKen.

ROFL!!!!!!


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RE: Secret plan to keep Iraq under US control - 6/5/2008 2:01:03 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
It is too long a list, but if you click the link and you can see the names of the 22 Senators who didn't vote in favor of funding. View for yourself which party they were affiliated.

You know as well as I do that the GOP senators who voted against the bill were voting against the Webb GI Bill not against continued Iraq war funding.

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RE: Secret plan to keep Iraq under US control - 6/5/2008 2:08:39 PM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline 		The problem with socialism is not it's main focus but it's side effects. It's like a bad medication. It may cure the disease but it's side effects create even more serious problems. It leads to an endless slippery slope of government control. Suddenly we want the government to control the oil companies. We want government to control healthcare. We want government to control corporations. We want the government to put limits on salaries and how much money we can make.

Where exactly do we draw the line on this control? How far do you want it to go? That is the problem with socialism. There never seems to be enough control. Control leads to more problems we try to fix those problems with more control. And before you know it you look back and you cant even see where you started. It becomes a mess and the system collapses.

It has been tried countless times the past 150 years. Each attempt has been disasterous. Just go ask someone from eastern Europe or the former Soviet Union about socialism and you might for the first time hear the truth of its brutal realities and not what it is hyped up to be by its supporters.

Just like Winston Churchill once said:
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."

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RE: Secret plan to keep Iraq under US control - 6/5/2008 2:35:36 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
It is too long a list, but if you click the link and you can see the names of the 22 Senators who didn't vote in favor of funding. View for yourself which party they were affiliated.

You know as well as I do that the GOP senators who voted against the bill were voting against the Webb GI Bill not against continued Iraq war funding.


Ken,
Always been a results versus rhetoric kind of guy. The result of the vote was another 19 months of funding the war in Iraq; which could be the funding used to construct those long term military bases of concern to the OP.

The names of those 75 Senators should be kept in mind by those wishing to express their position for this specific funding of 19 more month and the war in general. The 75 on the list, regardless of party affiliation, voted in favor of funding the war, paved the way for more war, and perhaps provided the funds for the bases.

Money comes from Congress - no money - no war. QED.

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RE: Secret plan to keep Iraq under US control - 6/5/2008 2:55:50 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Just go ask someone from eastern Europe or the former Soviet Union about socialism and you might for the first time hear the truth of its brutal realities and not what it is hyped up to be by its supporters.



...or, instead of asking those who lived under totalitarian regimes, you could ask those in socialist countries such as Canada or the UK whether or not they want a free market in charge of health care.
You talk of where to draw a line and suggest that no line can be drawn. This is a logical fallacy. A mixed economy is entirely possible. Indeed there are many examples of such around the world and in most of those countries they enjoy more freedom than a so-called capitalist country with a Patriot Act.

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RE: Secret plan to keep Iraq under US control - 6/5/2008 3:05:14 PM   
Slavehandsome


Posts: 382
Joined: 9/19/2004
Status: offline 		Its not really a secret plan.  Its called the Globalist Empire.  Not that any taxpayers would do anything about it, but Bush just wouldn't be wise to come forward upon inauguration and say his bosses' goal is a number of permanent bases in Iraq and Afghanistan to protect the pipelines of central Asian natural resources.  The better, more convincing storyline of 9/11 and WMDs is a much better sell for the Americans, whose dwindling influence through their financial reserves will be a thing of the past soon enough, and the whole world will be locked down under the boots of tyranny once and for all.  Let's just keep our heads in the sand and keep talking about Tom Cruise, some child custody case and all the other celebrity worship that the media is forcing down our throats, and maybe, just maybe, the tyrants will go away. 


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RE: Secret plan to keep Iraq under US control - 6/5/2008 4:21:08 PM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline 		And what's funny is how the rich in Canada come down to America and pay for their healthcare rather than stay in Canada and get it for free.

Intesting also how so many people from Europe PAY to come over to America's universities and get degrees when they have it for free in their own countries. I remember when I was in college I had classmates from Italy, Germany, Spain, France, etc.... They all came over here to get degrees.
Im just glad Im done and got a damn good education before you leftists destroy it and make degrees not worth the paper they are written on.

Again....socialism is not what it is hyped up to be.

< Message edited by cyberdude611 -- 6/5/2008 4:23:03 PM >

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RE: Secret plan to keep Iraq under US control - 6/5/2008 4:27:09 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Huh... knock knock. Academia relies on the exchange of ideas and on the geographical exchange of students and professors. When I went to university in England, there were many American exchange students residing on campus with the rest of us Europroles. What are you trying to prove exactly?

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RE: Secret plan to keep Iraq under US control - 6/5/2008 4:31:15 PM   
bipolarber


Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline 		Yeah! Let's cut taxes (for the rich) again! Let's cut government programs too! I mean, it's not like there are bridges falling apart, right? It's not like levees are left to degrade, or wetlands cut back to the point that entire cities are placed in jeapordy! Let's cut the government down to a size where we can drown it in a bathtub! (Sort of the same way New Orleans drowned...) And hey, why the hell should we fund vets going to college? Isn't serving seven tours of duty in Iraq... honor enough for anyone?


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RE: Secret plan to keep Iraq under US control - 6/5/2008 4:37:36 PM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy
Indeed there are many examples of such around the world and in most of those countries they enjoy more freedom than a so-called capitalist country with a Patriot Act.


They even have less freedom than legal fictions called corporations.

How little the average american understands is staggering...and saddening.



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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Secret plan to keep Iraq under US control - 6/5/2008 4:40:51 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

 or, instead of asking those who lived under totalitarian regimes, you could ask those in socialist countries such as Canada or the UK whether or not they want a free market in charge of health care.

Indeed there are many examples of such around the world and in most of those countries they enjoy more freedom than a so-called capitalist country with a Patriot Act.


philo,
Except you are surly not including the UK as a fine working example of a freedom enjoying "socialist countries" can you? Surely a place which will soon have a law defining obscene and making illegal to have, most of pictures, and information regarding BDSM?

I'd define the following more 'totalitarian' desiring than freedom enjoying.

quote:

House of Commons Session 2006 - 07
Criminal Justice and Immigration Bill

Part 6
Criminal law
Pornography etc.

64 Possession of extreme pornographic images

(1) It is an offense for a person to be in possession of an extreme pornographic image.
(2) An "extreme pornographic image" is an image which is both—
(a) pornographic, and
(b) an extreme image.
(3) An image is "pornographic" if it appears to have been produced solely or principally for the purpose of sexual arousal.

(6) An "extreme image" is an image of any of the following—
(a) an act which threatens or appears to threaten a person’s life,
(b) an act which results in or appears to result (or be likely to result) in serious injury to a person’s anus, breasts or genitals,
(c) an act which involves or appears to involve sexual interference with a human corpse,
(d) a person performing or appearing to perform an act of intercourse or oral sex with an animal, where (in each case) any such act, person or animal depicted in the image is or appears to be real.
http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm200607/cmbills/130/07130.43-46.html


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RE: Secret plan to keep Iraq under US control - 6/5/2008 4:42:49 PM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline 		Yeah, because the states don't have similar stupidity enshrined in the federal code.

Jeez, say something useful...!

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Secret plan to keep Iraq under US control - 6/5/2008 4:54:27 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

Yeah, because the states don't have similar stupidity enshrined in the federal code.

They do? Where? How? Who's inhibited from buying any of these, soon to be illegal in the UK "extreme pornographic images".

quote:

Jeez, say something useful...!
My goodness - such an outburst! Sorry to affect you so. My apologies for citing references to back up my positions.

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RE: Secret plan to keep Iraq under US control - 6/5/2008 5:23:56 PM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Huh... knock knock. Academia relies on the exchange of ideas and on the geographical exchange of students and professors. When I went to university in England, there were many American exchange students residing on campus with the rest of us Europroles. What are you trying to prove exactly?


Student I met from Germany said he came here because over in Germany the system won't allow him to persue the major he wants. Over here he got into a college and got the degree that he wants.

Over there they make you take a test and the government then decides what majors you are allowed to go into...

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Secret plan to keep Iraq under US control - 6/5/2008 6:02:36 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Oh well, if one student said that to you, then it must have been universally true  . I love these personal anecdotes that are used ad nauseam in a sad attempt to back up the most spurious 'arguments' . And yeah... Germany, Europe, Carnival, London.. it's all the same thing, innit ?

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RE: Secret plan to keep Iraq under US control - 6/5/2008 11:09:16 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		This plan should come as no surprise, nor this bit of information -

"The Iraqi government wants to delay the actual signing of the agreement but the office of Vice-President Dick Cheney has been trying to force it through. The US ambassador in Baghdad, Ryan Crocker, has spent weeks trying to secure the accord."

If the Iraqi Parliament approves this agreement, would Iraq in effect become a territory of the US?

quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro
Bush wants 50 military bases, control of Iraqi airspace and legal immunity for all American soldiers and contractors


_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


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RE: Secret plan to keep Iraq under US control - 6/6/2008 12:16:32 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

This plan should come as no surprise, nor this bit of information -

"The Iraqi government wants to delay the actual signing of the agreement but the office of Vice-President Dick Cheney has been trying to force it through. The US ambassador in Baghdad, Ryan Crocker, has spent weeks trying to secure the accord."

If the Iraqi Parliament approves this agreement, would Iraq in effect become a territory of the US?

quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro
Bush wants 50 military bases, control of Iraqi airspace and legal immunity for all American soldiers and contractors



Ven, so what?
It won't be worth the paper it's written on.
"Contracts? We don't need no stinkin' contracts!"

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Secret plan to keep Iraq under US control - 6/6/2008 12:46:47 AM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		IMO, if the agreement is signed, then Iraq will be on the path to becoming a US territory which would give our government access to the natural resources and the continuing responsibility of military, political and humanitarian assistance. 

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to popeye1250)
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