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RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle - 6/5/2008 3:04:10 PM   
tsatske


Posts: 2037
Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Louisville, KY
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Steel,
have you considered the possiblity that it is not the age difference?
How many carebears can you name? how many of the pretty ponies? do you know who the carebears cousins are?
I think this might have to do with your testostrone driven cartoon choices. <smile>

I was - ahem! - Significantly older than my first dear husband. I was also raised by grandparents. As a result, i recognize generational refrences i am far too young for. I am approaching the age where i hate it when it makes people guess me as too old, becuase of what i 'know'.

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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle - 6/5/2008 3:05:02 PM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
Age limitation based on area and local laws are what matter - not what people think is right.
Making a person, regardless of age - to be assigned a mentor is one of the most thoughtless of ideas.  Too much risk of abuse and shows poor judgement.  Classes?  Is this school?  Totally condecending.
All these show is a lack respect and age discrimination.  What will be next - only allowing someone who within a certain weight ratio because those who are overweight pose a possible health risk?
 
the.dark.

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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle - 6/5/2008 3:09:55 PM   
softness


Posts: 2918
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: Leeds, UK
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urg ... I think I would *hate* to have mentoring and protection forced upon me like that ... I would feel smothered not supported

I fully understand that people want the protection of others ... but if i needed something to overt .. I would rather not bother

saltatrix (my friend who I squire about) ... when we go to an event ... I introduce her around a little ... and leave her to it ... I keep a very vague half an eye on her and unless I thought she was in *actual* physical danger .. i leave her to it. On the drive to our first munch I checked she had a brain and could use it, and that somewhere along the line she had picked up some normal common sense ... that was everything I needed to know ... she is a functioning adult ,. she can care for herself. Now pretty much everyday she comes to me with a question - she is just starting out getting to know a Dom she has met and she talks over lots of things with me. I have never screenedd her emails, or interviewed potential partners. Ok so I ahve read emails when she has forwarded them to me with questions like "I think this guy sounds nice, but I didn't get this .. what does it mean" .. or "is this too much it made me feel uneasy but is that just me being over sensitive" .. yes I have met her new Beau .. but not until she had been on several dates with him ... and that was because he had asked to meet me ... If this hands off, low interference friendship that we have is mentoring .. then I think personally its the healthiest model

the type of mentoring that I see described often on the boards (homeworks, check ins, under protocol at events, screening emails, double checking potential partners) .. well thats sounds more like Ds to me .. rather than mentoring. Especially when that behvaiour is initiated by a Dominant .. who has a sexualised interest in controlling and taking power away from a submissive ... seems a bit off

Sir is training me to give decent head ... He is mentoring me in good throat service. We joke that it must be such a burden for Him, all that endless training and practice ... day after day after day ... must have been just *terrible* for Him ... poor Sir what can I ever do to repay Him because there isn't *anything* in the mentoring for Him ... not a thing .. its why I did so much baking .. to make up for the endless blowjobs Sir had to endure ... because He hates them you know ... only doing it for me .. being totally selfless

its kinda like that for those "Mentors" I described above...  IMHO



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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle - 6/5/2008 3:11:26 PM   
Leatherist


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Quails at a sudden and horrible vision of being flattened by a five hundred pound suspended bottom falling on him. I knew there was a reason I never attend public events!

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle - 6/5/2008 3:16:04 PM   
chellekitty


Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

The thing that really got me to start the thread was, someone on the local list suggested a reasonable standard age limit - maybe 21 or 22 - with exceptions made for anyone over 18 but under the age limit who was willing to jump through several 'hoops' - like accepting being assigned a mentor, attending a certain number of munches and classes before being allowed at a party or dungeon event, ect.


some of these so called hoops are pretty standard around here...you don't find out where the party or dungeon is until you show up at the munch, there is one group that you have to be "sponsored" by a member to attend a party until you become a member - that is the person sponsoring you vouches for you and your behavior durring and after the party, if your loose lips talk about what happened in vegas outside of vegas, the member gets in trouble, not you...you have to go through an orientation at almost every group i have belonged to, from a brief here are the rules to a deep discussion about numerous things and strong reading suggestions with access to the groups library...for everyone new to the group...no discrimination based on age, gender, race, creed, experience, etc...

as for the age...well, i would guess that would depend on your area...18 is the basic minimum...there aren't any states left with a 21 years of age, age of consent law left....if your clubs or dungeons or parties are regularly getting busted, i would suggest going with at least 20, as Archer and Christian Bale in Newsies pointed out, sensational, shocking words in headlines make for big sales and "Teens Found in Sex Club Raid" are sinsational and shocking...

also, taking into consideration the meeting place as pointed out, it would suck if your group was 18 and up but they couldn't get into the munch because the bar was 21 and up...at least for the 18 to 20 year olds...

my perspective on the maturity thing...if an 18 year old is trying to go to a munch they are already seeking out the scene, i would rather them do it in a group of people into the lifestyle than trying to get into BDSM in real life with people that don't understand what they are trying to do...if you don't know what i mean, try reading the explaining to kinky non-lifestylers thread...and then factor in the often over eagerness of anyone new to the lifestyle and then exclude them from the scene based on something they have no control over...

chelle


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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle - 6/5/2008 3:31:14 PM   
fluffyswitch


Posts: 1108
Joined: 9/29/2007
From: Buffalo
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quote:

ORIGINAL: softness

urg ... I think I would *hate* to have mentoring and protection forced upon me like that ... I would feel smothered not supported





it was definitely a double edged sword. she was my age and roughly the same experience levels but with much much MUCH better local connections than me so it was nice to have someone watching my back that i could 'bond' with for lack of a better word. but yes there were times that i turned around and told her to essentially leave me alone because i was neither stupid nor fully naive. so it was nice and not at the same time.


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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle - 6/5/2008 3:31:33 PM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline
ORIGINAL: tsatske

How many carebears can you name?

Bedtime Bear
Funshine Bear (Not Sunshine as most thought)
Birthday Bear
Good Luck Bear
Cheer Bear
Wish Bear
Friend Bear
Tenderheart Bear
Love-a-lot Bear
Grumpy bear
Baby Hugs and Baby Tugs
Grams
Secret Bear
Share Bear
I'm missing one or two I just could not remember.
 
how many of the pretty ponies?

Butterscotch
Buttons
Lovely Locks
Baby Quackers
Locket
Pluma
Draggle
Fizzy
Wind Whistler
Galaxy
Furbob

do you know who the carebears cousins are?

Brave Heart
Lotsa Heart
Bright Heart
Gentle Heart
Cozy Heart
Proud Heart
Noble Heart
Loyal Heart
Swift Heart
Treat Heart
 
Never Question a Guy who is the oldest and only male of 9 female cousins about his Girl Shows Knowledge.
 
That's right I know them and I even liked them too.
 
Steel



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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle - 6/5/2008 3:54:05 PM   
Evility


Posts: 915
Joined: 12/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse
The biggest problem I see there is that most of those who would 'volunteer' to 'mentor' someone of that age are exactly the kind that you are trying to protect them from.


With this kind of sentiment being expressed (and I see it expressed often whenever the topic of mentoring comes up) why even bother mentoring anyway? I mean, really... I'm 47. I came up through all of this decades ago without mentoring of any kind and without the internet as we know it. I learned much along the way through trial with very little error and did not get hurt or kill myself nor did I hurt or cause the untimely demise of anyone else. Are the youngsters really that clueless or was our generation just that much more savvy?

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle - 6/5/2008 4:06:54 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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Personally I'd prefer to see an age limit of 15.  I know that's never going to happen, but it's honestly what I think most reasonable.

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle - 6/5/2008 4:14:35 PM   
tsatske


Posts: 2037
Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Louisville, KY
Status: offline
Okay, now if someone asks me, 'what is the most metrosexual thing you can think of about that testosterone driven, manly man hunk of Steel' I will be ready with an answer.

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~Dr. Seuss quote

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle - 6/5/2008 4:16:55 PM   
pinksugarsub


Posts: 1224
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tsatske

First of all, this is not another 'how can a person this young be a Dom, a Mistress, actually submit, know what they want?' thread.
On a local list that i subscribe to, which is for people who attend a local dungeon ( okay, not super local, i live in little house land out here! but, about as local as it gets) there is a discussion of age limits for attending munches, classes, dungeons, parties, conventions, whatever.
I have said many times before - someday we (BDSMers in general, as a subset of society) will 'grow up' enough (by which i mean, become mainstream and accepted enough, so i am kind of talking about everybody else growing up, not us) to start thinking about what the gay culture already deals with - young people. Young people who already know that they carry alternate sexual identities are in need of socialization and help to get safely through adolescence, and yet, they are not in need of being exposed to a lot of potential perps looking for some young stuff!
There are, of course, early bloomer munches in most bigger cities - you still have to be over 18, but usually it is only for the under 30 or 35 crowd, so it is a safe place to get to know other young people without anyone trying to get into your pants just cause your young and hot, and without anyone telling you that you are too young for all this, and without anyone getting jealous of your youth.
At what age should young people be welcomed to conventions, seminars, classes, public information meet and greets, dungeons, parties, demos? is it different for different events?
The thing that really got me to start the thread was, someone on the local list suggested a reasonable standard age limit - maybe 21 or 22 - with exceptions made for anyone over 18 but under the age limit who was willing to jump through several 'hoops' - like accepting being assigned a mentor, attending a certain number of munches and classes before being allowed at a party or dungeon event, ect.
What do you think?


i did some legal work for a budding TheNextGeneration group in Detroit, and i advised that age 18 was legally sufficient for a TNG member -- so long as there was no play.  Play, i thought, raised risks a TNG group should avoid. 
 
There are risks any group would have to shoulder if it admitted teens that older (over 21) members would not pose.
 
There are other considerations when a gathering of D/s P/pl, no matter how loosely arranged, takes place, as to admitting teens.  As the Op points out, it may expose an immature and inexperienced teen to an older, predatory type..and possible liabity might attach to the group or its members if the teen was harmed. 
 
That's just one example of risks; i can think of others.
 
Yet, i think there is an obligation to reach out to teen D/s P/pl and try to include T/them somehow.  i guess what i would most emphasize is that teens should not be admitted  to dungeons, play parties or otherwise 'encouraged' in any way to play with A/anyone, publically or privately. 
 
That doesn't mean teens should be left out of dinners and munches and such; just that the group should take special care when doing so.
 
IMO, most teens -- D/s or not -- are best served by intimate relationships with P/pl T/their own age, especially when first beginning a sexual life.
 
pinksugarsub

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle - 6/5/2008 4:22:30 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tsatske

At what age should young people be welcomed to conventions, seminars, classes, public information meet and greets, dungeons, parties, demos? is it different for different events?
The thing that really got me to start the thread was, someone on the local list suggested a reasonable standard age limit - maybe 21 or 22 - with exceptions made for anyone over 18 but under the age limit who was willing to jump through several 'hoops' - like accepting being assigned a mentor, attending a certain number of munches and classes before being allowed at a party or dungeon event, ect.
What do you think?


I think it's complete and utter BS to say to someone who can decide to enlist to go die for her country, for someone who can can decide it's time for him to get married, and for someone who can be tried as an adult in a court of law to be told you aren't old enough to come to our munch, our workshop, our whatever.

Accurate information can only be helpful to everyone.

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle - 6/5/2008 4:23:39 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
*Fast Reply*

Due to legal issues, I think 18 is a good age. I understand why some groups are hestiant about that, though since drinking seems to be banned at most of those groups it seems a bit odd that 21 is the age. I believe all the events I've attend that were 18+ also had drinking, you just had show your ID. Because the laws are what they are, I would (and have threatened to do so in the past) inform the hosts if someone was lying about their age. If that makes me no fun, oh well.

Now, if this were a more perfect world and I wasn't so concerned about groups being shut down, I'd say 16 or so.

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle - 6/5/2008 4:26:09 PM   
YourhandMyAss


Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline
James is 11 years older than me, so like one time when he mentioned how old he was when he graduated highschool I laughed and said I was barely middle school age he was like yeah yeah rub it in.
quote:

ORIGINAL: fluffyswitch

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

Yeah my wife makes me feel old all the time and we're only 6 years apart.

She doesn't know the good cartoons

She has no idea why I am so excited to see Speed Racer and for half a day went around singing "Go Speed Racer, Go Go Speed Racer, Go Speed Racer Gooooooooooo"

Then she only remember the NEW Transformers and doesn't remember Optimus Prime Dying

Nor does she remember "Small Wonder" or "Out of this World"

Wow I just realized what I dork I really am.

Please ignore this rant.

Steel


He is 8 years older than me. we play this game a lot lol.


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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle - 6/5/2008 6:07:09 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline
OOOH, can I mentor the people who need mentors cause they don't know what the fuck they are doing?

Think about what you/they/them are saying about a group if you need to assign a mentor to someone. 

They need protection from predators that you allow into the group
They won't get information from others
That the only way to grow is by being led by the nose


Have and require them to read The Bottoming Book - The Topping Book- The Ethical Slut...after that they will know more than most people in the scene and could probably teach the precum dripping mentors salivating at the chance to "guide" an 18 virgin down onto their cock for some oral training.

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle - 6/5/2008 6:15:58 PM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: softness

quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

The biggest problem I see there is that most of those who would 'volunteer' to 'mentor' someone of that age are exactly the kind that you are trying to protect them from.


laughs ... I am slowly introducing a friend into the scene ... we attended a weekend of events in Manchester ... my first and more vehement piece of advice was - if they offer to Mentor you .. or protect you ... or guide you ... politely decline

especially if they are rubbing their palms together as they do it


The scene is a good place for new folks... most of the well know folks here in the London scene, do what I do, they wouldn't 'mentor' someone but if someone has a question then, so long as We aren't in the middle of something We'll usualy talk the time to give a an answer.... those who's first responce to meeting someone young and new is "i'll mentor you"... RED FLAG.... they almost always have an adgenda is it never is about the new person benifit but rather about how fast they can get in their knickers!


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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle - 6/5/2008 6:33:41 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

Having spoken with venue owners of multiple play spaces the common use age of admission to the venue is 21. The most often cited reason is simple even at 18 or 19 if on the off chane that the police raid an establishment. The newspapers are going to lead with the headline of, 4 TEENAGERS were amoung those caught up in a raid on a local SEX CLUB.

Those headlines are going to leave even the most understanding city council members with no choice but to pull your Certificate of Occupancy, and shut you down.

Why they picked 21 instead of 20 I'm not sure other than it matches the drinking age in most places.




That matches up with my observations...at 18, anyone in America is an adult for first amendment freedom of association purposes, but the liquor laws have created a holdover effect.

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle - 6/5/2008 6:52:44 PM   
virgini970


Posts: 142
Joined: 5/28/2008
Status: offline
age has nothing to do with it i all ways thought i was doing some thing roung i wish i would have some one to talk to all that time i could have been having fun now i am an old fart the young ones do need some one to talk to we were all new at one time or another just look at it like this if it were your kids would you want them to be able to go to some one or some where they could find out the facts the real facts

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle - 6/5/2008 7:54:57 PM   
Usako


Posts: 697
Joined: 7/29/2006
From: NYC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Evility

quote:

ORIGINAL: Usako
Everyone has to start somewhere and if they're legal in their country/state/area then they should have the right to experience what they like.


I fail to see how a private club or group that sets an age limit of 21 is somehow depriving those 18 to 20 years of age from experiencing what they have "a right to experience". I practiced plenty of kinky stuff in my late teens without ever exercising my "right" to be a member of any group r club.



Whoop, good for you. You can learn a lot from watching other people and getting advice and testing things out; all of which a good club can do. Seeing things in live action and in person and talking to people for feedback is a lot more helpful then on line vidoes or lil websites. PLUS, if they're young they might feel more comfortable in said group setting seeing other people enjoy what they do (or are curious about) rather than thinking they're some sexual deviant for what they link. Hell, the reaons go and on and on; point is discovering ones self doesn't start at "21" and if the legal age of wherever you are is 18/17/whatever then they should be allowed to enjoy, legally, adult activities.

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle - 6/5/2008 8:04:16 PM   
katie978


Posts: 352
Joined: 7/21/2007
Status: offline
  As far as public events, 18 is probably the youngest that can legally be allowed...although people are whipping out torture devices or private parts or beating each other, the topics are still frankly sexual and, as such, would be a problem if an angry mother tried to sue a munch 'cause her 15-year-old daughter asked her what CBT is. And, while the munches I've been to haven't been too over-the-top with the sexual talk, denying that sex is a pretty big part of BDSM (perhaps not in your personal relationships, but in general), shows somewhat of a lack of understanding about BDSM.
  For the real younguns, kids still in high school that are getting interested, there's always the gay-straight alliances that are established at pretty much every high school I've heard of. Although a teen's particular kink might not be gay or bi-, GSAs tend to be incredibly liberal and understanding of all sexualities, including kinky ones. Plus, for more first-hand knowledge, there's always drama club. Those bastards were freaky.

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Profile   Post #: 40
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