Why don't you want an intelligent sub/slave? (Full Version)

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girl4you2 -> Why don't you want an intelligent sub/slave? (10/28/2005 5:55:49 PM)

someone whose views i've come to value and see as honourable and wise has suggested that a better question to pose to Masters/Mistresses is this: why would you not or why don't you want an intelligent submissive/slave?

thank you Iron Bear for your insight once again.



fastlane -> RE: Why don't you want an intelligent sub/slave? (10/28/2005 6:52:17 PM)

why would anyone not want an intelligent slave/submissive?

Oh yeah, because you make the Master look stupid.

All stupid Master's go home and all intelligent bottoms, stand up and be noticed. You are special!



CitizenCane -> RE: Why don't you want an intelligent sub/slave? (10/28/2005 8:14:17 PM)

For me, intelligence is simply not the critical ingredient. As I said in the other thread on this general topic, things like loyalty, grace, eagerness to please, passion and good cheer mean more to me in an intimate partner than IQ. I'm not afraid of other people's intelligence, and I enjoy it in a sub when it's combined with the features above- but I really don't see how having an IQ of 150 makes a girl better in bed, more fun to spank, or look sexier in a leather harness. Given a choice between a sub with big smarts and a dishonest heart; and one who's trustworthy but not particularly bright, I'd much rather have the second in my home. My idea of dominance does not include being a prison guard.
Also, I'm much more particular about who I fuck than who I talk to- so I'm perfectly happy to have scintillating conversations with a wide variety of people who can be interesting about a variety of subjects, rather than focus my intellectual life on one person and screw around indiscriminately.




girl4you2 -> RE: Why don't you want an intelligent sub/slave? (10/28/2005 8:18:43 PM)

edited



girl4you2 -> RE: Why don't you want an intelligent sub/slave? (10/28/2005 9:01:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CitizenCane

For me, intelligence is simply not the critical ingredient. As I said in the other thread on this general topic, things like loyalty, grace, eagerness to please, passion and good cheer mean more to me in an intimate partner than IQ. I'm not afraid of other people's intelligence, and I enjoy it in a sub when it's combined with the features above- but I really don't see how having an IQ of 150 makes a girl better in bed, more fun to spank, or look sexier in a leather harness. Given a choice between a sub with big smarts and a dishonest heart; and one who's trustworthy but not particularly bright, I'd much rather have the second in my home. My idea of dominance does not include being a prison guard.
Also, I'm much more particular about who I fuck than who I talk to- so I'm perfectly happy to have scintillating conversations with a wide variety of people who can be interesting about a variety of subjects, rather than focus my intellectual life on one person and screw around indiscriminately.

when combined with some wits, integrity, obedience, trust, honour, overwhelming desire and need to please, to serve, to be what one should be to her Master/Dominant, passion in everything done, loyalty, caring, an honest and honourable heart, trustworthiness, who wishes to learn about things of interest to her Master/Dominant while keeping her own and not becoming any burden, who doesn't desire to take anything, but offers to give what she has, no matter the cost, then why is it not good to think, when one doesn't let one's thoughts interfere....i don't know why i ask anymore really. perhaps it is about what i think you speak of, having just "play" partners and not ever seek anything of substance and more.



OscarHargraves -> RE: Why don't you want an intelligent sub/slave? (10/28/2005 9:10:04 PM)

An incompetent or weak Dom/Master would probably prefer a 'less intelligent' Sub/Slave so that he could make himself look and feel better. If he's not the brightest crayon in the box then he will almost always prefer a blank page instead of one that has some writing on it.

Disclaimer: As always my use of gender is due to my personal preferences and does not eliminate other gender combinations!



CitizenCane -> RE: Why don't you want an intelligent sub/slave? (10/28/2005 11:53:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: girl4you2

quote:

ORIGINAL: CitizenCane

For me, intelligence is simply not the critical ingredient. As I said in the other thread on this general topic, things like loyalty, grace, eagerness to please, passion and good cheer mean more to me in an intimate partner than IQ. I'm not afraid of other people's intelligence, and I enjoy it in a sub when it's combined with the features above- but I really don't see how having an IQ of 150 makes a girl better in bed, more fun to spank, or look sexier in a leather harness. Given a choice between a sub with big smarts and a dishonest heart; and one who's trustworthy but not particularly bright, I'd much rather have the second in my home. My idea of dominance does not include being a prison guard.
Also, I'm much more particular about who I fuck than who I talk to- so I'm perfectly happy to have scintillating conversations with a wide variety of people who can be interesting about a variety of subjects, rather than focus my intellectual life on one person and screw around indiscriminately.

when combined with some wits, integrity, obedience, trust, honour, overwhelming desire and need to please, to serve, to be what one should be to her Master/Dominant, passion in everything done, loyalty, caring, an honest and honourable heart, trustworthiness, who wishes to learn about things of interest to her Master/Dominant while keeping her own and not becoming any burden, who doesn't desire to take anything, but offers to give what she has, no matter the cost, then why is it not good to think, when one doesn't let one's thoughts interfere....i don't know why i ask anymore really. perhaps it is about what i think you speak of, having just "play" partners and not ever seek anything of substance and more.


Indeed- you're projecting. I haven't said that it's not good to think, but it's obvious that not everyone does it equally well. To require some level of parity in this department seems unnecessary to me, especially in a relationship that is, by design, fundamentally unequal. My remarks are not about casual play partners either, but about long term, deeply intimate relationships. I simply see no evidence that any of the things typically called intelligence are needed to be good at intimacy, loyalty, service, optimism, passion, and so on. If you consider how good dogs are at this kind of thing, you'll see what I mean. There's simply no correlation between intelligence and these other traits.
I think that some doms want a sub to be everything in all ways for them, and some subs want to be this for their dom. I think, however, that if either party is very much brighter than a wet brick, that this is unlikely to work out. I think the odds of finding a woman that not only has all the traits I see as significant to a relationship, but also has knowledge and interest in all the things that I am interested in, are very low. Fortunately, it hardly seems necessary when there are other people in the world who can address these concerns individually.




girl4you2 -> RE: Why don't you want an intelligent sub/slave? (10/29/2005 12:14:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CitizenCane
Indeed- you're projecting. I haven't said that it's not good to think, but it's obvious that not everyone does it equally well. To require some level of parity in this department seems unnecessary to me, especially in a relationship that is, by design, fundamentally unequal. My remarks are not about casual play partners either, but about long term, deeply intimate relationships. I simply see no evidence that any of the things typically called intelligence are needed to be good at intimacy, loyalty, service, optimism, passion, and so on. If you consider how good dogs are at this kind of thing, you'll see what I mean. There's simply no correlation between intelligence and these other traits.
I think that some doms want a sub to be everything in all ways for them, and some subs want to be this for their dom. I think, however, that if either party is very much brighter than a wet brick, that this is unlikely to work out. I think the odds of finding a woman that not only has all the traits I see as significant to a relationship, but also has knowledge and interest in all the things that I am interested in, are very low. Fortunately, it hardly seems necessary when there are other people in the world who can address these concerns individually.



to clarify, please, the part i was "projecting" about and asked if what you spoke of was what i understood, had to do with the depth of the "relationship." i also said that learning about things of interest to one's Master "while keeping her own" to show that one doesn't just become a rote fluffy but maintains separateness as well. while pleasing one's Master is at the front of one's mind, life still happens. it is now obvious to me that intelligence has nothing to do with any good traits of a submissive. in no relationship that i've yet come across (and i'm no expert) has it been seen as healthy for one person to be the be all and end all of another's life. but i have seen relationships where the partnering of two (or more) was a shared, joyous, honest, relationship which celebrated devotion and service, and in which communication and honour were observed. were there no needs other than from one person, why would others, books, theater, etc. be around? religion, too. or spirituality. but again, it's late and my words encircle me.

thank you for your comments again.



MrDiscipline44 -> RE: Why don't you want an intelligent sub/slave? (10/29/2005 7:03:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CitizenCane

For me, intelligence is simply not the critical ingredient. As I said in the other thread on this general topic, things like loyalty, grace, eagerness to please, passion and good cheer mean more to me in an intimate partner than IQ. I'm not afraid of other people's intelligence, and I enjoy it in a sub when it's combined with the features above- but I really don't see how having an IQ of 150 makes a girl better in bed, more fun to spank, or look sexier in a leather harness. Given a choice between a sub with big smarts and a dishonest heart; and one who's trustworthy but not particularly bright, I'd much rather have the second in my home. My idea of dominance does not include being a prison guard.
Also, I'm much more particular about who I fuck than who I talk to- so I'm perfectly happy to have scintillating conversations with a wide variety of people who can be interesting about a variety of subjects, rather than focus my intellectual life on one person and screw around indiscriminately.



Very well said and very true. Intelligence has nothing to do with how well one serves. I have two very intelligent submissives who lives with me and one of the banes of their intelligence is that they can over think what I told them to do. Another bane is the intelligent sub/slave thinks they HAVE to have input in every decision being made. As the Master of the house, I make the final decision of what is best for the house. When I make this decision I have taken everything in consideration already and don't need to be second guessed by one of my submissives/slaves.

To say that a Master is not intelligent just because he doesn't require his sub/slave to be (intelligent) is just an asinine statement of an elitist. BDSM isn't just for the highly intelligent, this lifestyle is for anyone that can participate in a safe and sane relationship.



girl4you2 -> RE: Why don't you want an intelligent sub/slave? (10/29/2005 11:59:38 AM)

rbp



Lordandmaster -> RE: Why don't you want an intelligent sub/slave? (10/29/2005 12:15:25 PM)

I'm having a hard time understanding this thread (and the related one). Who ever said they don't want an intelligent sub? If someone rejected you by saying something like that to you, then they don't sound like the kind of person you would have wanted anyway.



Sunshine119 -> RE: Why don't you want an intelligent sub/slave? (10/29/2005 1:00:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

I'm having a hard time understanding this thread (and the related one). Who ever said they don't want an intelligent sub? If someone rejected you by saying something like that to you, then they don't sound like the kind of person you would have wanted anyway.


Ditto to the above. It would seem that people matching up in the BDSM world is very much like people matching in the vanilla world. From my experience, it seems to me that the more intelligent the Dominant is, the more likely he/she will seek an intelligent submissive. And few intelligent submissives will be able to submit to a less intelligent Dominant. This is not to be taken as elitist in any way. My Dominant and I can argue about politics, quoting every source known to humanity. It adds to our fun. And, in no way does it diminish our D/s relationship. I am not required to accept and believe every word uttered from his mouth. Since I am intelligent and very strong and self-sufficient, if he weren't more so, it would be difficult for me to sit at this feet or serve him.

Play partners are a different story. Since they are not matching up for any significant period of time, this should not be as big an issue.



CitizenCane -> RE: Why don't you want an intelligent sub/slave? (10/29/2005 2:22:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunshine119


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

I'm having a hard time understanding this thread (and the related one). Who ever said they don't want an intelligent sub? If someone rejected you by saying something like that to you, then they don't sound like the kind of person you would have wanted anyway.


Ditto to the above. It would seem that people matching up in the BDSM world is very much like people matching in the vanilla world. From my experience, it seems to me that the more intelligent the Dominant is, the more likely he/she will seek an intelligent submissive. And few intelligent submissives will be able to submit to a less intelligent Dominant. This is not to be taken as elitist in any way. My Dominant and I can argue about politics, quoting every source known to humanity. It adds to our fun. And, in no way does it diminish our D/s relationship. I am not required to accept and believe every word uttered from his mouth. Since I am intelligent and very strong and self-sufficient, if he weren't more so, it would be difficult for me to sit at this feet or serve him.

Play partners are a different story. Since they are not matching up for any significant period of time, this should not be as big an issue.


I think this attitude stems from accepting as universal some rather arbitrary limits on the dynamic of dominance and submission. If we so completely accept the Safe Sane and Consensual motto that we forget that sometimes 'consent' is possible only by the consent of the powerful, then we narrow the arena of the D/s dynamic to intellectual combat within carefully defined rules and limits. I'd say, however, that in reality this is only an expression of drives of a much more visceral nature. People in and out of the lifestyle regularly submit to people who are much less intelligent than themselves because other power dynamics override this concern- the power of money, the power of hierarchy, the power of beauty, of sexual attraction, of overt or implied violence, or the ineluctable power called charisma. When people do this, they often feel the need to inflate the intelligence of the one under whose sway they've fallen- and we get Harriet Miers calling Bush 'the most intelligent man I've ever met'.
Dominance and submission is about power, and intellectual power is only one form. As for like seeking like- isn't that the opposite of what is happening in a D/s relationship? Why should it apply to intellect?




fastlane -> RE: Why don't you want an intelligent sub/slave? (10/29/2005 4:47:17 PM)

I'm not a DomAss, but am often misunderstood. I love smart women in and out of the lifestyle!

I never feel threatened, but challenged by them. This is good and keeps me on my toes. On Point, in ballerina terms.

Peace, Kevin



girl4you2 -> RE: Why don't you want an intelligent sub/slave? (10/29/2005 11:00:32 PM)

rbp



Kasia -> RE: Why don't you want an intelligent sub/slave? (10/30/2005 12:19:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: girl4you2
why don't you want an intelligent submissive/slave?

Because I dont want him to notice the stupid things I do, why else? [:D]



Padriag -> RE: Why don't you want an intelligent sub/slave? (10/30/2005 12:34:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

I'm having a hard time understanding this thread (and the related one).

You're not the only one, I have yet to think of a reply that would really contribute to this thread in some useful way or answer the original question. For myself I cannot imagine not wanting an intelligent slave (which I don't necessarily equate with high IQ, though I find the two often go together). An unintelligent slave would... well... be of very limited use to me, perhaps kept literally as a pet (perhaps a full time puppygirl for example), but that doesn't really fit with my desires so its not something I have pursued.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunshine119

Ditto to the above. It would seem that people matching up in the BDSM world is very much like people matching in the vanilla world.

Or at least on line. Statistically people online tend to be more literate and educated (and presumably more intelligent, though sometimes I wonder about it). If true then it follows you would find a higher percentage of intelligent dominants and submissives online... statistically anyway.



Kazinar -> RE: Why don't you want an intelligent sub/slave? (10/30/2005 4:03:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: girl4you2

someone whose views i've come to value and see as honourable and wise has suggested that a better question to pose to Masters/Mistresses is this: why would you not or why don't you want an intelligent submissive/slave?

thank you Iron Bear for your insight once again.


I want a sub/slave that IS intelligent.

Why? Because I get BORED too damn fast.

She has to be able to challenge me, prove me wrong, show me new things, ideas, concepts.

My ideal woman is someone that not only obeys but FEEDS me ideas and keeps me stimulated.

Kaz.



domtimothy46176 -> RE: Why don't you want an intelligent sub/slave? (10/30/2005 8:01:15 AM)

While I am not in the market for an unintelligent slave, I have given much thought to this question over the last couple of days. I can't think of an instance where intelligence would be detrimental but I have come up with certain limited usage scenerios where intelligence could be optional.

A sex toy need not have intelligence if that is her only function.
A domestic need not have intelligence as long as she is skilled at her assigned duties.
A masochist need not have intelligence so long as she can endure what I dish out without needing to articulate limitations.

Even in those limited functions, I don't see intelligence as a detriment unless it interferes with the slave's ability to be content within her limited role.

Timothy




Oberonrex -> RE: Why don't you want an intelligent sub/slave? (10/30/2005 8:17:04 AM)

I agree with Kevin on this, I like to be challenged in the best way possible. This and the previous post bring out what is a very important point for me. Leaving aside honor, integrity, and such, I want an intelligent slave or sub because:

• I can give them a task and not have to worry about essentially doing it for them because they can figure it out on their own. Doesn't matter if it is scene, housework, or whatever, they not only will do it, but will probably come up with the best/most effective and efficient way possible to do it.

• If given a task that "everyone" knows can only be done X number of ways, an intelligent sub/slave can find a new way, which not only makes them feel good (which is a great reward in and of itself), but it also makes me look good for having and encouraging them.

• If there is an emergency, I know they can and will handle it

• I know that an intelligent sub/slave will have my back, and will know what to do, how to do it, and most importantly when to do it.

• Most of all, they make sure that I grow and don't become stagnant or complacent in any part of my life. I want that form of challenge from those who serve.

I would not want an intelligent slave or sub because they would know when I screwed up, that I did not know what I was doing, that I was regarded as a laughingstock within the community, and/or that I was lazy as all get outs...

Oberon



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