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RE: Does submission always have to involve pain? - 6/8/2008 11:31:17 AM

RealSub58

Posts: 1073
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittenpuss

Hi Juliet I am talking about a session/ scene in which pain is given for pleasure.

I NEVER am into pain for pleasure. That is a masochistic's need as far as I am concerned.
Try not to confuse submission and masochism.

Sir loves to spank erotically and I love to receive it...but if it gets a bit on the painful side... all I need do is turn my head, rock my ass away, or slip my arm around his leg.... he knows the signs..and he ceases and holds me till he knows I am better.

On the other hand, there are times he is dissatisfied with my behaviour...mostly something totally unrelated to a "scene."
He is my OWNER and I have as you stated "relenquish power." But learning to give all of my own control away to him in some situations has been difficult. I can think of several situations off the top of my head. To this needless taking back his control and making it mine, I do deserve his discipline.

THAT is the relinquishing of control and power I give to my Owner. It is part of a total relationship, not just a scene.

(in reply to kittenpuss)

Post #: 21

RE: Does submission always have to involve pain? - 6/8/2008 1:45:49 PM

Huntertn

Posts: 715
Joined: 10/7/2006
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yep..not being a pain slut is ok too....but between D/s and pain .....that depends on your Doms preference..and franky yours if you think about it..you can always vote with your feet..as in leave...just like in any relationship

(in reply to mzbehavin)

Post #: 22

RE: Does submission always have to involve pain? - 6/8/2008 2:06:56 PM

PanthersMom

Posts: 2215
Joined: 11/26/2007
From: Cleveland Ohio
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every relationship has its own dynamics. if you're not into pain and your partner is, either find compromises you can both live with or find another partner whose needs and desires match your own.
PM

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I miss my ex, but my aim is improving!

(in reply to Huntertn)

Post #: 23

RE: Does submission always have to involve pain? - 6/8/2008 4:21:22 PM

impossiblesub

Posts: 150
Joined: 4/20/2008
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Try to find a Dom who does not require pain.

(in reply to mzbehavin)

Post #: 24

RE: Does submission always have to involve pain? - 6/8/2008 6:10:16 PM

ResidentSadist

Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
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As mentioned masochism and submission are two subjects. Either one can exist without the other.

Masochism does not always involve physical pain, it can be bondage, humiliation, fear or other forms of pain free suffering.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Reference:
Masochism, the counterpart of sadism, is the sexual pleasure or gratification of having pain or suffering inflicted upon the self, often consisting of sexual fantasies or urges for being beaten, humiliated, bound, tortured, or otherwise made to suffer, either as an enhancement to or a substitute for sexual pleasure.

Sexual Masochism: the recurrent urge or behavior of wanting to be humiliated, beaten, bound, or otherwise made to suffer.

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I give good thread.

(in reply to impossiblesub)

Post #: 25

RE: Does submission always have to involve pain? - 6/8/2008 6:14:12 PM

sweetnurseBBW

Posts: 2464
Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
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No, some just want power exchange and no S&M. Just be very clear about that when you meet someone. Masochism does not = submission. Everyone has different wants and needs, some don't have interest in pain or experiencing it at all.

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Sir Pain's pain slut

(in reply to kittenpuss)

Post #: 26

RE: Does submission always have to involve pain? - 6/8/2008 6:15:57 PM

fairerthanshe

Posts: 3035
Joined: 1/18/2007
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~FR~

Greetings,

SJ has a term for me and for others like me. Its "emotional masochist" because it isn't physical pain which gets me off, its knowing that what I am suffering gets him off. That anything he does to me is for his own pleasure and is not designed to do more than make me cry. That gets me very wet.

Pain is a very significant part of our relationship and I have learned to love the pain not for itself, but for what it means to him. You may not be ready for pain, some people never become ready for it. If that is the case, seek a sensualist and avoid the sadists. I did for awhile until I was ready to explore more and luckily this coincided with meeting SJ.

well wishes ~ fairer

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(in reply to ResidentSadist)

Post #: 27

RE: Does submission always have to involve pain? - 6/9/2008 5:08:09 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
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Being dominant does not mean you automatically are a sadist. But it also doesn't mean you aren't one. You're confusing obedience and being on the receiving end of a sadist. Sadists give pain because, in the most basic sense, it turns them on. It doesn't have to have anything to do with you being submissive. It may, because frequently sadists are dominant and therefore they like to indulge themselves in this way with their submissives.

If you aren't at all interested in pain, as I'm not; then don't get involved with a sadist. Look for someone who shares your interests. Me? I went looking for a dominant male into bondage and sex, ice cream and miniature golf among other things we have in common.

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(in reply to mzbehavin)

Post #: 28

RE: Does submission always have to involve pain? - 6/9/2008 8:01:43 AM

SirDominic

Posts: 711
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline

kitten,
If you don't enjoy pain, you need a Dom who is comfortable dominating you in the ways you desire, through power exchange. Please remember that being submissive does not mean you do not have a say in the relationship. The two of you have to set the parameters through lots of communicating at the beginning, and continue communicating as your relationship develops. If pain is not your kink, that should be considered a hard limit.

As for why it is appealing for Masters to inflict pain when they already have total control, there are as many answers for that as there are Masters. Like you, my slave is extremely obedient, she almost never requires punishment. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy sessions that require her to take a flogging or a spanking if I so desire. Why do I do it? For one, I enjoy it. It is also a heady power exchange that she is eager and willing to suffer for my needs.

More importantly, my slave has a powerful sensual side. I awoke her pleasure sensations and continue to deepen the pleasure she feels as our relationship develops. She is into pain some, but it is not high on her list. Yet pain is as powerful a sensation as pleasure, and I want her to release her sensuality in every way possible. Over time her ability to handle pain has increased remarkably and it will continue to do so. As I awaken her mind and body to ever more intense sensory input, she continues to blossom.

_____________________________

You teach best what you have lived.

(in reply to kittenpuss)

Post #: 29

RE: Does submission always have to involve pain? - 6/9/2008 8:07:31 AM

DiurnalVampire

Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittenpuss

So excuse the naviety of my question but I am just learning but what happens if you are a sub who finds the most erotic thing is to relenquish power and that's enough? You don't need to be punished in anyway as you've already given yourself in your entirety. All that punishment & pain seems to do is detract you from your state? What is it about inflicting from a dom's point of view which is so appealing when you already have total power?

Not every sub or slave enjoys pain, so you just need to search for a Dominant who doesnt desire a masochist. Simple.
I have 2 boys, one is a masochist and noe cannot bear the idea let alone the actual infliction of pain. I have a very mental power exchange with Angel, but he has not even as much as been spanked in the 2 years I have had him. The idea alone scares him. He has never misbehaved seriously, so he has never been physically punished.

You do not have to be hurt to submit, you just have t put some oeffort into finding a dominant who wants that and who you can submitt to completely.

DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to kittenpuss)

Post #: 30

RE: Does submission always have to involve pain? - 6/9/2008 9:36:58 AM

MstrVik

Posts: 122
Joined: 3/31/2008
Status: offline

As others have also said here, submission does not have to involve pain. The term 'pain' will also necessarily mean different things to different people; their tresholds for it vary, and for some people pain is even pleasurable. It does surely not equal punishment, and the experience of pain (in various degrees) can also be used simply to explore - as a means to delve deeper. 'Total power' is as well a relative term and complete relinquishment of power doesn't just happen overnight for a submissive; I guess it can be said that there are levels of it, on internal and external levels. - Pain is only one of many different 'tools' and if you feel that all it does is 'detract you from your state', perhaps it's better to try and rather see it more as a challenge to it. It is however your own choice whether it's something you want and/or are willing to explore.

_____________________________

~ sometimes a spanking is just a spanking...

(in reply to kittenpuss)

Post #: 31

RE: Does submission always have to involve pain? - 6/9/2008 1:24:22 PM

puella

Posts: 2457
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline

You are confusing Dominance and submission with sadism and masochism. They two are seperate concepts entirely, though many mesh elements of both into their lifestyle.

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(in reply to kittenpuss)

Post #: 32

RE: Does submission always have to involve pain? - 6/9/2008 2:15:53 PM

uliveonce

Posts: 16
Joined: 5/8/2008
Status: offline

No.

Submission should be pain free. The act of submission anyway.

However, many people enjoy pain or grow to enjoy "pain" so one never knows and that is why negotiation / communication is IMPORTANT.

and for all the people talking about punishment
punishment: suffering, pain, or loss that serves as retribution -- are you really looking for retribution?
...retribution : syn retaliation as Doms are we really looking to retaliate against our subs?

discipline: training that corrects, molds, or perfects the mental faculties or moral character

This is a word I can get behind. So much so that when I have a sub who asks what her punishment for a transgression will be, I add a written paper defining punishment and discipline and why one is appropriate in our relationship and why the other is not.

getting off soap box now, but words and their meaning hold huge import, act accordingly.

(in reply to puella)

Post #: 33

RE: Does submission always have to involve pain? - 6/10/2008 12:47:01 PM

SteelofUtah

Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline

Hello kittenpuss,

I would repeat most of what has already been said as it is Valid.

I do have a Question however.

If you do not enjoy Pain do you enjoy the other facets of BDSM

The Bondage, The Discipline (Again Not talking Pain talking Personal Discipline)

Do you enjoy some of the Fetishes and the Kinks?

I ask these because there is a Very different type of D/s or Master/slave type relationship that rarely involved Pain or Kink or even Fetishes for that matter and that is Christian D/s which is basically Marriage as it is defined in the bible with the Man being the Master of the house and the women doing good by him.

I'm sorry I am not religious and I may have already said the wrong thing but I know that when I decided that I wasn't a Sadist early on I discoverd many placed dedicated to the Christian Master slave relationship but I discovered that I am far more sexually adventureous then many of them and Poly is usually just not accepted and so I didn't fit there either but if you are looking to just devote yourself to a Man and give yourself to them completely without the S&M or the Kinky Fetishes and Sex maybe this would be a good place for you to venture.

Steel

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(in reply to uliveonce)

Post #: 34

RE: Does submission always have to involve pain? - 6/11/2008 3:02:00 AM

MasterGreg43

Posts: 79
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Fla, Ga, NY, NJ, MD, VA, now PA
Status: offline

looking at ur profile, u dont have to seek a Dom for what u are looking for, why not just fine a husband that is kinky, submission in this Lifestyle does lead to some physical play or punishment, and all spanking is not to correct some is to reward, but if u have not learn the pleasure in pain then Maybe u are seeking the wrong thing, try researching all aspect of just the word BDSM this letter have great meaning, where if u dont like pain but want to submit that can be done with a bf, lover, or husband where u can just give him all ur total love why come to a Lifestyle site not looking for sweet pleasure in pain if u are lucky u will find the joy that us Lifestyler love deeply weither on the giving or receiving, topping or bottoming to the one or two.

_____________________________

Master Greg
PA Dominant King
Dominant King of Sweet Palace of Pain
Master of Sweet House of Pleasure & Pain

(in reply to julietsierra)

Post #: 35

RE: Does submission always have to involve pain? - 6/11/2008 3:42:40 AM

eyesopened

Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterGreg43

looking at ur profile, u dont have to seek a Dom for what u are looking for, why not just fine a husband that is kinky, submission in this Lifestyle does lead to some physical play or punishment, and all spanking is not to correct some is to reward, but if u have not learn the pleasure in pain then Maybe u are seeking the wrong thing, try researching all aspect of just the word BDSM this letter have great meaning, where if u dont like pain but want to submit that can be done with a bf, lover, or husband where u can just give him all ur total love why come to a Lifestyle site not looking for sweet pleasure in pain if u are lucky u will find the joy that us Lifestyler love deeply weither on the giving or receiving, topping or bottoming to the one or two.

Why would anyone assume that "Lifestyle" must require pain? Are you saying someone can only be Dominant if they inflict pain? If i don't enjoy pain i can't join the "Lifestyler" club? It is attitudes and comments like yours that kept me from finding my true happiness for many, many years. i am not a masochist. i have never and probably will never find anything sweet or pleasurable about pain.

i was very lucky! my first Dominant was a man who understood that not everyone is the same. He understood my fear and dislike of pain and took time to introduce me to a variety of sensations, mental discipline, endurance, service, attitude, and through his understanding of so many different aspects of BDSM was able to guide me through the discovery of myself.

Because of his patience and understanding, i now enjoy a relationship with a Sadist. No, i do not think of pain as sweet or pleasurable. It f-ing hurts! my body apparently does not produce endorphins, i have never experienced subspace. However, the reaction, the love, the appreciation my Master has for my suffering is such a reward for me, a praise junkie, that i cannot imagine a differnt way of living.

On the other hand, there are times when my Master doesn't want to inflict "pain" at all but situational bondage where the suffering is all mental and not physical. Does that exclude Him from the "Lifestyle"?

_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

(in reply to MasterGreg43)

Post #: 36

RE: Does submission always have to involve pain? - 6/11/2008 3:43:13 AM

MontrealPhoenix

Posts: 1526
Joined: 2/27/2008
Status: offline

Greetings kitten,

Contrary to what some may believe, not all of us feel that pain is necessary in order to submit to a Master or Mistress. Yes, it IS possible to submit completely without pain play, to suggest otherwise is ridiculous. Some enjoy pain and need it to submit, but it's not necessary, whatever works for you is fine.

Submission is a state of mind, IMO there are no set conditions other than those you require. In the past, i had already submitted to my Master long before pain was introduced to our relationship, icing on the cake, so-to-speak.

MasterGreg, there is a difference between being submissive and being a masochist, not all of us are masochists...

i wish you well,

phoenix

_____________________________

"Only in a collar can a woman be truly free"
~Tribesmen of Gor ..pg 75

"He who ties a woman owns her"
~Guardsman Of Gor pg 267

(in reply to kittenpuss)

Post #: 37

RE: Does submission always have to involve pain? - 6/11/2008 4:00:18 AM

Rule

Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
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No. Nor does it need to involve sex - at least according to my perception of the hypothetical nature of a submissive.

< Message edited by Rule -- 6/11/2008 4:03:54 AM >

(in reply to kittenpuss)

Post #: 38

RE: Does submission always have to involve pain? - 6/11/2008 6:54:01 AM

WhiplashSmile2

Posts: 526
Joined: 6/11/2008
Status: offline

Submission does not have to involve pain. Just make certain your Dom is not a sadist or is into S&M. If your Dom is into pain, then pain is part of the deal.

(in reply to kittenpuss)

Post #: 39

RE: Does submission always have to involve pain? - 6/12/2008 4:01:01 AM

Indemnis

Posts: 179
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline

If I sound snippy in the coming message, it's because I really dislike questions like this, and I am about to explain why.

Of course not. Submission doesn't HAVE to involve anything specifically. The power exchange is unique to the couple, and that much should be obvious. It's all about waiting for the right partner. Any given relationship is going to be unique, as I said, to the two people involved, wether it be straight, gay, "normal", D/s / M/s, Gorean, man-goat, whatever. Anyone who tells you otherwise is an idiot.

What is 'right' for one couple may seem insane to the next. Honestly, if you're mature enough to be in any relationship, you should have the mental capacity to come to this conclusion on your own.

_____________________________

No-one respects the flame quite like the fool who's badly burned-- Pete Townshend

(in reply to mzbehavin)

Post #: 40

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