RE: The Affairs of Men

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Quivver -> RE: The Affairs of Men (6/10/2008 7:03:13 PM)
A local Radio host who caters to Male listeners is on the same page as Lusciouslips. His premis is that cheating for Men is physical, while cheating for Women is emotional. And that the emotional cheating should be viewed in the same light as physical. Somehow I have to agree.............. quote: ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19 Men may cheat out of boredom. I dont believe women cheat for the same reason. Women cheat because they are not getting the attention they need from the spouse.

kittinSol -> RE: The Affairs of Men (6/10/2008 7:03:16 PM)
?

Griswold -> RE: The Affairs of Men (6/10/2008 9:42:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross The Affairs of Men Phil was on Colbert last night and it was an interesting interview. It appeared as if Phil was saying that men are highly sexed and thus should be excused from their sexual indiscretions. The article is long, but definitely worth the read, and seems to leave the door open much more to questioning the concept of monogamy and whether we can get past the idea that men having indiscretions is just a part of life and how we should deal with the shame. He even has a whole section on polyamory and quotes from The Ethical Slut. The Affairs of Men: The Trouble with Sex and Marriage http://nymag.com/relationships/sex/47055/[image]http://i.ixnp.com/images/v3.33.0.2/t.gif[/image] One of the interesting comments on the article was this:If it is a betrayal of trust for a man to have sex outside of his marriage, then it just as much a betrayal of trust for a wife to stop having sex on a regular basis with her husband. If you want to be the sole source of sexual gratification, then you have to make sure you fulfill your partner's sexual needs. If there is no food in the house, I will not apologize for going out to eat. Thoughts? Haven't read the entire thread but....I have to say.... There is never a valid reason to cheat. Can't agree with it.... Can't condone it.... Nope. Nada. Nyet.

DomKen -> RE: The Affairs of Men (6/10/2008 9:43:01 PM)
I was in a multiyear relationship with a woman that had a very different sex drive than I did. I went in thinking that the rest of the relationship was so good it would make up for the lack of sex. For me at least having a best friend and challenging intellect that would listen to me vent but who thought once a month lights off missionary sex was just fine did not work. I didn't cheat though. When I got to the point where I had to do something I talked to her and she was quite adamant that she was giving me all she could sexually so we reluctantly split up.

Icarys -> RE: The Affairs of Men (6/10/2008 9:59:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aileen1968 Aren't men supposed to spread their seed across the land? lol Well across something for sure.

Real_Trouble -> RE: The Affairs of Men (6/10/2008 10:38:43 PM)
From the perspective of evolutionary biology: - Women are most threatened by their men forming an intimate emotional relationship with other women. (they are about to withdraw support from that woman and/or her offspring with him) - Men are most threatened by their women having sex with other men. (they don't want to be raising other men's children) I kid you not. There is plenty of literature on this subject; to a point, I would advise men to ignore 'romantic' emotional affairs by their wives and wives to ignore 'purely sexual' affairs by their men if they want to play by the rules nature has handed us. Otherwise, I would question getting married in the first place barring situations where there definitely will be sex, and both partners definitely will remain interested, which is more rare than one suspects. To those who say "men cheat out of boredom" - you are incorrect. Men cheat out of a genetic imperative to spread their seed to as many potentially sound child-bearing women as possible. Women actually cheat for similar reasons; it sometimes comes down to biology when we're dealing with sex. I suggest Mean Genes (http://www.amazon.com/Mean-Genes-Taming-Primal-Instincts/dp/0738202304) as a fairly accessible book that deals with this kind of thing.

pinksugarsub -> RE: The Affairs of Men (6/11/2008 12:55:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp quote: One of the interesting comments on the article was this: If it is a betrayal of trust for a man to have sex outside of his marriage, then it just as much a betrayal of trust for a wife to stop having sex on a regular basis with her husband. If you want to be the sole source of sexual gratification, then you have to make sure you fulfill your partner's sexual needs. If there is no food in the house, I will not apologize for going out to eat. Thoughts? i absolutely agree with that comment. It's a widespread belief that women all over the country routinely withhold sex in order to punish or control their husbands. None of my married girlfriends does this....and i can't think of any of my Man friends who has ever confided to me that it's going on at his house. Any passive-aggressve behavior aimed at punishing or controling one's spouse meets with my disapproval on many levels. i had a different problem. My ex felt he had an 'entitlement' and 'took' sex from me whenever he wished. Usually when he was temporarially between girlfriends. 'Cheating' on one's spouse is such a broad range of behaviors, motives, circumstances and consequences that i cannot make a blanket condemnation of A/anyone who has ever done it. But to suggest that there's some 'quid pro quo' between the spouses that 'obligates' the wife to 'provide' sex at her husband's whim is repugnant to me. pinksugarsub

Hippiekinkster -> RE: The Affairs of Men (6/11/2008 1:48:47 AM)
Pink, stop using that slashy speak. It's fucking irritating. Don't argue. Just stop.

lronitulstahp -> RE: The Affairs of Men (6/11/2008 2:49:35 AM)
pss...you might want to go past post #3... Thanks for being so honest about what i'm sure, is a very sensitive and painful topic for you.

slaveboyforyou -> RE: The Affairs of Men (6/11/2008 3:11:05 AM)
quote: To those who say "men cheat out of boredom" - you are incorrect. Men cheat out of a genetic imperative to spread their seed to as many potentially sound child-bearing women as possible. Women actually cheat for similar reasons; it sometimes comes down to biology when we're dealing with sex. Well what you say would be true if humans operated solely on instincts. But we don't. Biology is not the sole driving force for humans anymore. We have evolved, and it's a simple minded person that excuses away wrongdoing because of our genes. We have an instinctual desire to commit violence or retreat when faced with stressful situations. But we don't excuse away violent behavior or cowardice just because our instincts urge us to act in such a manner. Our ability to overcome our instincts with our reasoning is what has kept us from going extinct for 40,000 years. People who don't control their urges are people that are short-sided simpletons who never grew up.

DomAviator -> RE: The Affairs of Men (6/11/2008 5:41:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp But sista...i thought most divorces happen because of financial problems. Maybe the hubbies are paying too much on hookers...it's a vicious cycle....[image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m23.gif[/image] Nobody should EVER pay too much for hookers! Its all in the negotiating skills. She needs to eat more than I need to drop a load! LOL Remember hookers are convenience items - you can haggle the price your willing to pay because if she wont meet your price if you invest an hour or two ya can get an equivelant product free in any bar frequented by horny college students [:D]

slaveluci -> RE: The Affairs of Men (6/11/2008 5:47:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross The Affairs of Men: The Trouble with Sex and Marriage http://nymag.com/relationships/sex/47055/[image]http://i.ixnp.com/images/v3.33.0.2/t.gif[/image] One of the interesting comments on the article was this:If it is a betrayal of trust for a man to have sex outside of his marriage, then it just as much a betrayal of trust for a wife to stop having sex on a regular basis with her husband. If you want to be the sole source of sexual gratification, then you have to make sure you fulfill your partner's sexual needs. If there is no food in the house, I will not apologize for going out to eat. I haven't read the article yet or any of the other posts but this comment stopped me dead in my tracks. My thoughts on it are "Amen!" I have said virtually this exact statement for years and I totally agree. So many times a couple gets married, seemingly both expecting monogamy. Over time as one partner begins to systematically deny the other sex, the denied partner gets it elsewhere. Then it's somehow surprising when the "denier" finds out. They're "shattered." I really think "What did you expect?" It's not that people can't live without sexual gratification from/with another but why should anyone have to, especially a married person? If you're going to sign up, so to speak, to be with your spouse and you hope to be their sole partner, just deciding to take sex off the menu is probably not going to get the results you think. How utterly selfish. I couldn't agree with the statement more..............luci

Real_Trouble -> RE: The Affairs of Men (6/11/2008 5:50:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou quote: To those who say "men cheat out of boredom" - you are incorrect. Men cheat out of a genetic imperative to spread their seed to as many potentially sound child-bearing women as possible. Women actually cheat for similar reasons; it sometimes comes down to biology when we're dealing with sex. Well what you say would be true if humans operated solely on instincts. But we don't. Biology is not the sole driving force for humans anymore. We have evolved, and it's a simple minded person that excuses away wrongdoing because of our genes. We have an instinctual desire to commit violence or retreat when faced with stressful situations. But we don't excuse away violent behavior or cowardice just because our instincts urge us to act in such a manner. Our ability to overcome our instincts with our reasoning is what has kept us from going extinct for 40,000 years. People who don't control their urges are people that are short-sided simpletons who never grew up. I'm not arguing it's the sole reason, but I am arguing it's the primary reason; if we didn't have that biological drive lurking from our biological legacy, I would suspect the instances of male cheating would be far fewer. We can argue all we want about our rationality and ability to surpress our instincts, and in some cases it is true, but that doesn't mean we do not have instincts or that we are not motivated by them; believing that humans are some hyper-rational being that can choose to ignore their biology at will is a dangerous world view. Just look at how many economic theories are being blown to hell because of that exact problem (google Kahneman and Tversky if you want to see some of the more interesting and understandable research on non-"rational" actors). Biology matters.

pixidustpet -> RE: The Affairs of Men (6/11/2008 6:23:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Asherdelampyr It is important that both people's needs are met in every relationship. sexual and non-sexual. However, at least in my far from humble opinion, there is no excuse for cheating based off of that, the comparison used is bullshit, since you can not really compare the life or death need for food with the want for sex, there are very few cases where sex is needed, and you wont die without it. touch is needed. intimacy is needed. i sleep in the same bed with my husband. we've not had sexual relations in nearly 2 years now, by his choice. he has not hugged me or touched me in any way other than "sorry, brushed against you while passing in the hallway" in over 6 months now. its a proven fact that infants who are not touched enough often fail to thrive. adults are NOT that much different. i know that i am in need of touch much more often than wolf is, and it is VERY difficult to feel ok and in balance when i'm suffering from skin hunger, and the need to be touched. when a relationship isnt nourished by intimacy, that relationship is not going to last. intimacy CAN be fostered in other ways (such as when one person is not physically able to have intercourse, and the couple finds other ways to keep that closeness alive) but if you dont have that intimacy component met, the chance is MUCH higher that one or both of the couple is going to stray. kitten, a week and a half away from leaving.

Irishknight -> RE: The Affairs of Men (6/11/2008 6:24:15 AM)
Normally slaveboy, I agree with you. On the issue of instincts, I am not sure if we agree or not. I feel that anyone who tries to ignore their instincts or suppress them completely is asking for trouble. My instincts have saved my life on a number of occassions. As for my instincts that say I need to spread my genetics, I have no qualms about admitting that they are there. If you've ever felt desire stirring for a strange woman when you are with your better half, thats biology and instinct. My wife and I are poly so I don't have the pressure I once had to "not look." I remember when I was in previous relationships bring made to feel guilty and being stressed because I found other women attractive. Guilt and stress have been proven to be killers. I say acknowledge your instincts, temper them (not suppress) with wisdom, and allow yourself to be who you really are. Cheating in my household is lying to your partner about it or breaking agreed upon rules. As long as I'm honest with my wife, sex is pretty well fair game. The lack of pressure also made our sex life 1000 times better.

cloudboy -> RE: The Affairs of Men (6/11/2008 7:03:18 AM)
quote: A long and supportive marriage may be more valuable than a sexually faithful one, Squire says. “Why does society consider it more moral for you to break up a marriage, go through a divorce, disrupt your children’s lives maybe forever, just to be able to fuck someone with whom the fucking is going to get just as boring as it was with the first person before long?” I find narrow minded, over-romaticized versions of marriage utterly depressing. Such points of view tend to be held by the unmarried. Its an ignorance begets arrogance thing. Then of course there's the lying police and the honesty patrols who turn a blind eye to US puritanism and its psychological effects. In general, I must say I find Dan Savage a better, more entertaining read. Good article -- a kind of intellectualized rationale for why the porn industry is a Billion Dollar business.

slaveboyforyou -> RE: The Affairs of Men (6/11/2008 7:06:51 AM)
quote: Normally slaveboy, I agree with you. On the issue of instincts, I am not sure if we agree or not. I feel that anyone who tries to ignore their instincts or suppress them completely is asking for trouble. My instincts have saved my life on a number of occassions. As for my instincts that say I need to spread my genetics, I have no qualms about admitting that they are there. If you've ever felt desire stirring for a strange woman when you are with your better half, thats biology and instinct. My wife and I are poly so I don't have the pressure I once had to "not look." I remember when I was in previous relationships bring made to feel guilty and being stressed because I found other women attractive. Guilt and stress have been proven to be killers. I say acknowledge your instincts, temper them (not suppress) with wisdom, and allow yourself to be who you really are. Cheating in my household is lying to your partner about it or breaking agreed upon rules. As long as I'm honest with my wife, sex is pretty well fair game. The lack of pressure also made our sex life 1000 times better. No Irish, I am not saying to ignore them completely. I use my instincts all the time too. If I have a bad feeling about something, I get the fuck out of Dodge. If I get a creepy feeling about a person, I lean toward caution and suspicion. Yeah of course I lust after women. I have and still do find many of my friend's wives or girlfriends extremely attractive. But I don't fuck them or attempt to fuck them. Loyalty and friendship are more important to me than getting laid. When I am in a relationship, I look all the time. I openly admit it, and I expect my lover to do the same. But if we agree on monogamy, than I expect them to abide by the agreement. I have NEVER cheated on anyone I have been with. It's unbelievable how many people think I am lying when I say that. But I have never done it. I don't have anything against poly relationships, as long as that is the agreement between all parties. It's not my cup of tea; I am an admittedly jealous person. But if it's what you prefer, you'll hear no judgment from me.

Irishknight -> RE: The Affairs of Men (6/11/2008 1:11:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou No Irish, I am not saying to ignore them completely. I use my instincts all the time too. If I have a bad feeling about something, I get the fuck out of Dodge. If I get a creepy feeling about a person, I lean toward caution and suspicion. Yeah of course I lust after women. I have and still do find many of my friend's wives or girlfriends extremely attractive. But I don't fuck them or attempt to fuck them. Loyalty and friendship are more important to me than getting laid. When I am in a relationship, I look all the time. I openly admit it, and I expect my lover to do the same. But if we agree on monogamy, than I expect them to abide by the agreement. I have NEVER cheated on anyone I have been with. It's unbelievable how many people think I am lying when I say that. But I have never done it. I don't have anything against poly relationships, as long as that is the agreement between all parties. It's not my cup of tea; I am an admittedly jealous person. But if it's what you prefer, you'll hear no judgment from me. Then we're not as far off on that one as I thought. Pretty darned close actually. Believe it or not, I've never cheated on any of my SOs either. Even since my wife opened my eyes to what a real poly relationship can be, I still don't run around after every woman on the market. Before I date anyone, I talk it over with my wife. Before I even consider a sub, I discuss things with the wife.

Vendaval -> RE: The Affairs of Men (6/11/2008 4:36:40 PM)
I think of marriage as a legal contract. If the agreed upon contract specifies monogamy and sexual activity, then the partners should honor their committments. Lying, deceit, affairs and witholding sex to gain an advantage in the relationship are loose-loose situations for everyone.

petdave -> RE: The Affairs of Men (6/11/2008 5:59:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real_Trouble We can argue all we want about our rationality and ability to surpress our instincts, and in some cases it is true, but that doesn't mean we do not have instincts or that we are not motivated by them; believing that humans are some hyper-rational being that can choose to ignore their biology at will is a dangerous world view. In some cases? Anyone with deeply impaired ability to control their base instincts tends to get removed from society pretty quickly, and for good reason. i mean, hell... If my biology dictates that i need to go out and get myself some strange, and i'm short on cash, my biological imperative would be to just take what i want by force, right? Man's gotta do what a man's gotta do... can't expect me to just repress that sort of thing. [8\|]

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