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sadism/masochism....mental illness??!! - 7/24/2004 10:51:56 AM   
innocentangel


Posts: 30
Joined: 7/12/2004
Status: offline 		http://www.narth.com/docs/symposium.html


i found this site and was wondering what Y/your opinions are on the subject......thanks.

innocent angel
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RE: sadism/masochism....mental illness??!! - 7/24/2004 11:50:15 AM   
LadyShoshin


Posts: 492
Joined: 7/19/2004
From: Burlington, Ontario
Status: offline 		Interesting article, personally I feel that activity between consenting adults should not be criminalized or pathologized. People who have problems with their chomosomes should not be considered insane.

I am an empath and a pagan, I communicate with Spirit, while in hospital for Generalized Panic and Anxiety Disorder, I was asked on 2 seperate admissions "Do you hear voices?" My response both times was "none that tell me to take a gun to a belltower" My hearing voices and seeing things or feeling things that others don't makes me no more insane than my enjoyment of sado-masochistic behaviour. The depressive state I endure is often aleviated by spiritual or BDSM activities. I can speak only for myself and not from exhaustive research, I have a mood disorder resulting from heredity and cumulative stress, I am not insane based on my spiritual practices or lifestyle.

_____________________________

PHLOX: “It’s unethical for a doctor to cause harm...I can inflict as much pain as I like.”

(in reply to innocentangel)
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RE: sadism/masochism....mental illness??!! - 7/24/2004 12:09:47 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: innocentangel
http://www.narth.com/docs/symposium.html
i found this site and was wondering what Y/your opinions are on the subject......thanks.
innocent angel


How lucky they have us and other deviants to study huh? Otherwise, what on earth would they put in research grants proposals?

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to innocentangel)
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RE: sadism/masochism....mental illness??!! - 7/24/2004 5:32:07 PM   
Whipenrod


Posts: 56
Joined: 6/18/2004
Status: offline 		I guess it comes under the heading of "It's too wierd if we don't do it."
I remember hearing a great story on NPR radio about how gays got homosexuality off the mental illness list.
It was spearheaded by a doctor well-respected in the psychiatric community who was, as other doctors who supported the change were--a closeted gay. Before the ruling was changed--much 'mental damage' was done to gays who were told they weren't 'normal' and were forced into a het existance.

I bet there are BDSM-practicing psychiatrists 'in the closet' too.
Until the ruling is changed--how can a doctor treat someone in the lifestyle for other things (without thinking that the BDSM portion of their lives is 'mentally ill' behavior and must be changed to behavior more 'normal)"?

Lady Whipenrod

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
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RE: sadism/masochism....mental illness??!! - 7/24/2004 5:37:39 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline 		Hello,

If I remember correctly, BDSM was classified as a treatable mental illness in all Diagnostic and Standards Manuals (DSM) for mental illness up to DSM 3.

I believe the psychiatric community has now removed classifying it as a mental
illness and have moved it to the "just weird" category.

Just me, could be wrong, Abnormal Psychology in college was a long time ago.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: sadism/masochism....mental illness??!! - 7/24/2004 6:25:20 PM   
gitta


Posts: 110
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		If a slave may, i happen to be one well trained in Human Sexuality as well as in the Metal Health field, a slave holds a couple of dergees which qualify her to respond with some knowledge to this issue. First the article presented is a bit old, but the debate is ageless.. Next, there is an excellent article:http://gloria-brame.com/mbarchive/psychological_dimensions_of_maso.htm which may help give some insite. As a mental health professional i can agree with Sinergy, in that BDSM and most of what it entails is looked at as an oddity rather than illness in this day and age. Folks are no longer put into instituations for drinking whisky and chasing women...nor are they placed because they enjoy a kink...

thank you for allowing me to speak, this site has some good information and people,
slave gitta




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Gitta -- 7/24/2004 7:27:11 PM >

(in reply to Sinergy)
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RE: sadism/masochism....mental illness??!! - 7/24/2004 7:04:24 PM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		It's a funny thing. To me, a guy who gets off on smelling womens' shoes seems strange. So who's to say what is normal anymore?
I really don't care if I am weird or insane. I enjoy this lifestyle. I bring joy and happiness to my slave by my actions, so how the hell could anything be wrong with that?
But I don't smell her shoes though.

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RE: sadism/masochism....mental illness??!! - 7/24/2004 7:08:21 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring
It's a funny thing. To me, a guy who gets off on smelling womens' shoes seems strange. So who's to say what is normal anymore?
I really don't care if I am weird or insane. I enjoy this lifestyle. I bring joy and happiness to my slave by my actions, so how the hell could anything be wrong with that?
But I don't smell her shoes though.


But you could probably sell her most worn ones on eBay for a killing! Even more if she runs around & sweats in them!

Vive la différence!

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: sadism/masochism....mental illness??!! - 7/24/2004 7:14:02 PM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Lol. Very true Angelika

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RE: sadism/masochism....mental illness??!! - 7/24/2004 7:41:11 PM   
MistressDREAD


Posts: 2943
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		<<<<~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Grant Proposal Deviant Study Subject.
They write books about Me. ~laughs~
<<<<~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

(in reply to Estring)
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RE: sadism/masochism....mental illness??!! - 7/24/2004 7:45:24 PM   
SherriA


Posts: 544
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy
I believe the psychiatric community has now removed classifying it as a mental
illness and have moved it to the "just weird" category.


It's only considered a "mental illness" if it affects your inability to function in life, under the DSM IV-TR

Diagnostic criteria for 302.83 Sexual Masochism
(cautionary statement)
A. Over a period of at least 6 months, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving the act (real, not simulated) of being humiliated, beaten, bound, or otherwise made to suffer.

B. The fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

Diagnostic criteria for 302.84 Sexual Sadism
(cautionary statement)
A. Over a period of at least 6 months, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving acts (real, not simulated) in which the psychological or physical suffering (including humiliation) of the victim is sexually exciting to the person.

B. The person has acted on these urges with a nonconsenting person, or the sexual urges or fantasies cause marked distress or interpersonal difficulty.

You can access the DSM IV-TR here: http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/dsm4TRclassification.htm

_____________________________

-- Sherri

Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity.

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RE: sadism/masochism....mental illness??!! - 7/24/2004 8:09:49 PM   
kiki blue


Posts: 315
Joined: 1/16/2004
From: Brisbane, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring
So who's to say what is normal anymore?


During a slow day at work, for some reason or another, the guys and gals I work with decided that I was normal, and that if I'd do it, it was considered "normal". And this is before they find out how perverted I am. That's ok, I took the name "Denise the Normal" and ran with it.

Normal just got a whole bunch more interesting.

_____________________________

Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

(in reply to Estring)
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RE: sadism/masochism....mental illness??!! - 7/24/2004 8:21:22 PM   
SherriA


Posts: 544
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

So who's to say what is normal anymore?


The mathematicians, of course. Normal = at right angles to the plane.

I figure I'm pretty much perpendicular to anything that's "plain", so I must be normal.

_____________________________

-- Sherri

Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity.

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: sadism/masochism....mental illness??!! - 7/24/2004 11:49:19 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline 		Hello,

This may or may not be related to the topic, but at an old company I worked for when they were examining browsing habits of employees to determine how best to firewall outbound browsing, the most commonly visited web site (by a wide margin) was (if memory serves me)

(pauses for effect)

www.meninchains.com

While I agree with you, Estrict, there are a lot of self-appointed moral guardians who care.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to SherriA)
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RE: sadism/masochism....mental illness??!! - 7/25/2004 1:36:49 AM   
basiasubrosa


Posts: 130
Joined: 6/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SherriA

quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

So who's to say what is normal anymore?


The mathematicians, of course. Normal = at right angles to the plane.

I figure I'm pretty much perpendicular to anything that's "plain", so I must be normal.


Brilliant, absolutely brilliant. <chuckles till sides ache>

And the "Normal Force" is that which works *against* the plane/plain....

<shakes head till neck aches>

(in reply to SherriA)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: sadism/masochism....mental illness??!! - 7/25/2004 6:18:51 AM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy
www.meninchains.com


Umm... I went there and there were no men in chains! Just a link farm called Mega Sex Sites with a few girlie crotch shots.

Way to get me all wound up for nothing. ;)

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: sadism/masochism....mental illness??!! - 7/25/2004 6:52:54 AM   
iwillserveu


Posts: 1633
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		You can use google to get more info but here is an example of a decidely crazy situtation.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europe/12/03/otsc.halasz/

As to who is to say what is normal any more. We are.

Consenting to be eaten (even sharing in your fried penis on camera) is not normal. I don't care how anyone equivocates. It is not normal. I would even say it is insane.

The difference between consenting to be harmed by being eaten and consenting to being harmed by spanking is only one of degrees. It is not a fine line, but we (the people who elect people who make laws on this stuff) are responible for deciding what is "normal".

We have a line to draw; who wants to hand over their pencil. (Warning, you my not like where the line gets placed.)

What's more as a "community" we BDSMers must decide or these guys will tar us as suicide fetishists. (Yeah, "community" is in quotes beacause can you imagine a united front that includes Dread, MzSuz, Leonidas, Taggard, SherriA, anthrosub, Gloria, Estrict (or Estring), Sinergy,etc. I picture a heard of cats.)

Oh, BTW, I'm crazy. Either a guy who consents to a little pain now and again is crazy or the "eat me" guy was sane for also consenting to be injured.

_____________________________

When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

(in reply to innocentangel)
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RE: sadism/masochism....mental illness??!! - 7/25/2004 8:21:32 AM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Umm... I went there and there were no men in chains! Just a link farm called Mega Sex Sites with a few girlie crotch shots.

Way to get me all wound up for nothing. ;)


I may have the url wrong. It was a web site with pictures of men bound up.

I never went to the site, I just thought it was amusing as hell since everybody in the firewall team assumed the most frequently visited site would be some girlie porn site.

Apologies for getting you all worked up.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to iwillserveu)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: sadism/masochism....mental illness??!! - 7/25/2004 10:23:45 AM   
SherriA


Posts: 544
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: iwillserveu
The difference between consenting to be harmed by being eaten and consenting to being harmed by spanking is only one of degrees.


I don't consent to be harmed. I consent to be "hurt", which in my mind is different.

Have I been harmed? Yep, it's happened. None of my play partners are perfect, and accidents are going to occur occasionally. It's one of the risks that I factor in when I choose to consent. But, the difference, to my mind is that this harm is unintentional. That's a significant, at least when viewed through my personal filters.

I don't consent to be harmed by anyone. I accept that accidental harm will happen sometimes, but I never consent to intentional harm.

If you break your toys you can't play with them anymore.

< Message edited by SherriA -- 7/25/2004 11:32:41 AM >

_____________________________

-- Sherri

Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity.

(in reply to iwillserveu)
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RE: sadism/masochism....mental illness??!! - 7/25/2004 10:59:46 AM   
dixiedumpling


Posts: 456
Joined: 5/10/2004
From: southeast Mississippi
Status: offline 		Several years ago a psychologist in Meridian, Mississippi got into trouble for spanking and having an affair with one of his female patients.


Lady Whipenrod

quote:

I bet there are BDSM-practicing psychiatrists 'in the closet' too.


_____________________________

Toodles,
dixiedumpling

My mind is no place to play alone. Anna Pigeon as written by Nevada Barr

(in reply to Whipenrod)
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