RE: D/s Groups & the Dilemma (Full Version)

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Archer -> RE: D/s Groups & the Dilemma (6/11/2008 10:27:00 AM)

You posed arguments against going, youposted them as YOUR personal arguments against doing so.
So the only way to counter the arguments is to counter with arguments against your personal arguments.

Count the number of posts saying horridly inappropriate things happen all the time  based on a single or couple of trips to a munch vs the number of responses that say that was an aberation based on sometimes hundreds of trips to munches. Thn use the old college education to come to an educated conclussion.

Count the number of posts saying the power struggles are unavoidable and will ruin your life vs the number of responses saying Sure like any group there are conflicts, but one can choose to participate in them or not.
Again use the education to formulate an conclussion weighted for the number of experiences in each catagory.

Count the number of posts where you have seen the idea that group participation make you real, vs the number of folks who have said the viewpoint is generally not held and is also generally dismissed as being a poor idea to begin with.

What conclussions do you reach?






pinksugarsub -> RE: D/s Groups & the Dilemma (6/11/2008 10:35:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

However you take Michaels post, he has a point thought pinkie.
If someone doesn't like drama, instability, or bullshit.  Then don't attend any munch because it does happen.  And if people aren't mature enough to deal with someone elses bad behaviour then don't attend.
 
If someone started flashing their breasts at a munch held in a public venue - I would tell them to grow the fuck up. That they are putting the munch in a difficult position with the public and with the proprieters.  If that did not help, I would get up and leave, unless I was helping out and then they would be asked to leave.
If someone is gossiping, I put my hand up and go - no thanks, go spill your filth in someone elses ear.
 
This forum is basically a munch.  If you avoid all the drama, the bullshit and the gossip - if you can get past the cliques - then there are other people who you can find out you can count on or get great info from.  If you avoided CM like you do munches, just think of the people whos' friendships you would have missed out on?
 
the.dark.

 
Man, this is not good news, dark.  i really am unwilling to deal with drama or bullsh*t -- mine, someone else's, a stranger's....it doesn't matter.
 
i've had to work very hard to establish boundaries with my crazy-ass family here for just this reason.  If the boundaries were any smaller, we'd just cease all contact completely.
 
If i'm in a public place, and someone raises their voice, i have to leave...immediately. 
 
i had no clue the P/pl who called & IM'd about this past weekend were gonna speak as T/they did.  Once i got the drift, i simply said 'o, sh*t; gotta go -- ttyl --bye'.   
 
If i got to a group meeting only to discover there was a controversy of some sort being aired...i'd leave...immediately.
 
i have to...i react to this sort of thing not just emotionally but physically.  It's as if i'm allergic to it.
 
*hugs*
 
pinksugarsub



RCdc -> RE: D/s Groups & the Dilemma (6/11/2008 11:34:07 AM)

You just have to remember that munches - like any other group of people are made up of people - everyday life - and they aren't anymore or less gossipy, negative, sardonic, tolerant, bitchy, deeper, impatient, intense, fluffy or drama filled than every day life. Just like here.[;)]
 
the.dark.



CruelDesires -> RE: D/s Groups & the Dilemma (6/11/2008 1:22:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SingleRarity
This is to no one in particular, but more of a general question that I think of everytime I see one of the munch threads;  Where are all of these nutty munches?  Daddy and I have been to quite a few, but we never experienced anything as weird or as crazy as what some of you have posted.  Maybe we've just been lucky but the most of the scenesters we know are pretty normal.  I've always wanted to meet the UberDom, that would demand I drop to my knees in IHOP.  I want the chance to laugh in his face!!


In all the years that I've been going to local munches, there was only one time that inappropriate behavior has happened. By the head of the main local group as a matter of fact. He and two other people involved made a public apology on the email lists. But... I lost any bit of respect I had for them when they displayed that kind of idiotic behavior. So, I would say that although that type of behavior is not that common.. it does in fact happen.
 
CD



JohnWarren -> RE: D/s Groups & the Dilemma (6/11/2008 1:37:16 PM)

There are cyber people and there are those who like to meet face to face.  You've obviously made your choice.

By the way, do you have any idea what "knife play" is?



DiurnalVampire -> RE: D/s Groups & the Dilemma (6/11/2008 1:44:01 PM)

The thing I'd wonder is how you manage anywhere if you have such a reaction to other people. Munches, D/s groups, knitting circles and hikers clubs wil ALL have drama. It isnt limited to the D/s lifestyle.
I have not gone to a munch since until I got Fox, I didnt have anyone to go with and I dislike going to these sorts of things alone. Fox has been to one, in Memphis and greatly enjoyed it. We plan on having our own. I know damn well there wont be any innapropriate behavior at mine, I simply wont allow it.
I do know I had some fairly poor experiences at clubs in NY, but most of those had to do with the drama of people who didnt really know how to play the part they were taking on, and making spectacles of themselves. I do not like BDSM clubs, for the most part, becasue I dont play publically and becasue there was always too many people playing at knowing what they were doing and not enough who actually had a clue.
Everywhere has drama. Work has drama, and I cant avoid that. You cant shut yourself away from the world just to avoid someone elses BS
DV



DesFIP -> RE: D/s Groups & the Dilemma (6/11/2008 3:59:14 PM)

The nearest munch to me is an hour away. The nearest clubs two hours. I've never been, and I never will. I can't afford the time, and I don't want to get home in the middle of the night just to get up at 8 on a Saturday morning to get my son to his game. Neither do I want to leave kids unsupervised for that long. It just doesn't work for me.

As far as walking in alone, the thing to do is search for other subs in your area and pm them first. Meet them for coffee just to  be friends. That way you can carpool with a friend and not be alone. But if you prefer to just meet people one on one through emailing possible partners in your area, then go for it. Lots of us are totally private and prefer it that way.




LuckyAlbatross -> RE: D/s Groups & the Dilemma (6/11/2008 5:17:18 PM)

It would be helpful to contextualize that Pink has had YEARS to form contacts with people, and has been encouraged and given advice on various methods to into the OFFLINE scene several times before.  She continues to choose to finds ways not to.



Elegant -> RE: D/s Groups & the Dilemma (6/11/2008 6:01:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pinksugarsub

The knife play demo?  Not just no, but hell no.




Why?


quote:

ORIGINAL: pinksugarsub

i don't know how to 'read' yr post because it could be serious, or tongue in cheek, or sarcastic, or s'thing else entirely.



I do not know how to read your posts with clarity because of your use of silly shortcuts such as 'yr', 's'thing' and S/s, D/d.






Leatherist -> RE: D/s Groups & the Dilemma (6/11/2008 7:32:53 PM)

If hanging around with a bunch of idiots with attitude problems qualifies me as "real"..I'll just keep being a "fantasy", thank you very much. [:D]



virgini970 -> RE: D/s Groups & the Dilemma (6/11/2008 7:38:30 PM)

i my self love this site i can talk to people like me i have found out things about myself i did not even know



Evility -> RE: D/s Groups & the Dilemma (6/11/2008 8:35:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied
I've gone to two munches offered by two different groups.  From both of those experiences I learned that attending munches is definitely not for me.  If you think there is a "fresh meat" thing going on on-line, it's much worse at real time events.  And some of the behavior is tacky.  If that is what you have to do to be considered real, I say no thanks.  I'm not in to sitting topless at a restaurant and charging other munch members $1/person for a peek at my breasts.  I didn't even realize this was typical munch behavior until I attended a munch.


I don't go to munches all that often but I've been to maybe a dozen total sponsored by maybe three different groups and I've never seen this sort of behavior at a munch. Maybe you did at both. 2 events really doesn't constitute a statistically valid sample ("typical munch behavior"). I hope you don't have a gig that involves clinical drug trials.



AquaticSub -> RE: D/s Groups & the Dilemma (6/11/2008 8:48:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pinksugarsub

A/anyone else ever been wishy-washy about joining a D/s group?  Can Y/you tell me why?
 
pinksugarsub
 
 
 


Only because I tend to be excessively paranoid about meeting any group of people. Seriously - going to meet nice old ladies to talk about food scares me as much as going to an unknown munch or play group. Actually more since they are far more likely to judge me IMHO. But Val kicked my ass and we went. I've never had a bad time, I've made great friends, had some great scenes and, at sober groups, I have NEVER been molested. I wish I could say the same thing about "safe, vanilla" events.

Would I get involved with someone who wasn't willing to at least give groups a try? Probably not. I mean, why are you "hell no" about knife demo? Nobody is going to be make you try it - there is decent chance they won't allow you since they may want to demo on people who have experience having knife play done on them. The bottom line, for me, is that I enjoy groups and being able to indulge in kitten play with a group of happy kinksters willing to jingle their keys for me. I'd have never known I liked that if I hadn't given it a shot.

Not every group is for you - there is a local group I doubt we will ever attend because it's just not for us. But it would be silly to assume that just because we don't think we would enjoy that group that there aren't other groups we would.



AquaticSub -> RE: D/s Groups & the Dilemma (6/11/2008 8:52:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

I've gone to two munches offered by two different groups.  From both of those experiences I learned that attending munches is definitely not for me.  If you think there is a "fresh meat" thing going on on-line, it's much worse at real time events.  And some of the behavior is tacky.  If that is what you have to do to be considered real, I say no thanks.  I'm not in to sitting topless at a restaurant and charging other munch members $1/person for a peek at my breasts.  I didn't even realize this was typical munch behavior until I attended a munch.


Where is that typical? People typically go topless at parties or dungeons. Places inside where others can't see. I can't fathom being topless at a restaurant unless it happened to be some kind of nudist restaurant. I can't say I've run into much of the fresh meat thing either athough I think it just happens in any social group.

Edited  to add: Having read your post, I don't know why you just didn't say "That would make me uncomfortable, please don't take off your top." Some people, myself and my friends included, enjoy being naked and that sounds like one of the silly dumb things we might do if we thought we weren't going to offend anybody. I'd believe them when they said that it wasn't typical or at least give other munches a shot since it sounds like you just happened to witness one bad night.



AquaticSub -> RE: D/s Groups & the Dilemma (6/11/2008 9:03:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pinksugarsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

Pinky, I still think you should consider starting out small.  Make friends with some sub/slaves in your area and meet them for lunch or dinner, you may be surprised at what develops.  From that point perhaps you can consider a foray into a munch or demo situation, going with them.  Or you may come to find that just meeting with a few people at a time is more your thing.


Katy, lemme say this first.  It does not matter to me if 1,000 P/pl post about how fabu munches are. i believe you about what you say happened, and i think yr decision not to pursue that type of gathering again is perfectly reasonable.  
 


Sometimes people behave badly. This is not limited to munches and, Katy while I respect you, it seems very silly to give up on something because of one or two bad experiences when many others report that they have never encountered anything like that.

I've had my ass grabbed dancing at vanilla clubs (with friends, male and female there to "defend me") - should I never go dancing again?
I've had my breasts stared at while shopping for groceries - should I never go back to the local market again?
Recently I had a guy try to pick me up repeatedly at the video game store - should I buy all my video games through the 'net?

If you decide not to go, that's a valid choice. It may not be the place for you. But realize that just because something shitty happened, it's not because it was at a munch. It's because a shitty person happened to be there and you could have run into them at CVS.



EvilGeoff -> RE: D/s Groups & the Dilemma (6/11/2008 11:52:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

If you think there is a "fresh meat" thing going on on-line, it's much worse at real time events.  And some of the behavior is tacky. 


If anyone pulled a "fresh meat thing" at a T3WD munch or any of the other groups I've been a member of, they would have their ass handed to them and be shown the door.  That kind of behavior is NOT permitted in a group that is run with the intent of educating people about BDSM practices, or for providing a safe and COMFORTABLE place to meet others with similar interests. 

As for tacky, well, I've seen worse at Sci-Fi clubs and Shriner's meetings.

quote:

If that is what you have to do to be considered real, I say no thanks.  I'm not in to sitting topless at a restaurant and charging other munch members $1/person for a peek at my breasts.  I didn't even realize this was typical munch behavior until I attended a munch.


That is so Atypical that it's frightening.  Unless they are having their munches in a strip club, WTF we're they thinking?  TOPLESS? ? ?  In a public, effing restaurant? ? ?  Whoever that group's organizers are , they need a serious dose of grow-the-fuck-up.

Those aren't munches.  Those are meat lockers.

'Nuff Said.
- Geoff



pinksugarsub -> RE: D/s Groups & the Dilemma (6/12/2008 12:41:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Madame4a

I'm going to suggest here that this happens to you, in particular, because you are 1) a prolific poster and 2) you put a lot of very personal (in MY mind) information out there.

I don't do that for just what you've stated below.  Few if any here know me even the slightest bit in RT (perhaps one or two) and I don't particularly care for a bunch of strangers deciding on the strength of what I show here, they know me.

If you do put stuff out there, people will make judgements and comments.  You must be willing to receive them if you're going to post the way you do -- no, let me rephrase that -- you should understand that is going to happen.  You don't have to be willing to receive them.



quote:

ORIGINAL: pinksugarsub


erin, i'm trying to be patient and dispassionate but i admit it's not easy.  WTF leads S/some P/pl on the boards to think -- ya, i've read this member's posts pretty often = i know s'thing about T/them in real life?
 
i have 'gotten out there'. Yr assumptions about my r/l are just guesses -- and you seem to guess wrong a lot.
 
Some of my Ops and posts have had 'autobiographical' information in them, but not much, and not many. 
 
When i post, i am seeking a discussion of the topic -- not a 'net-based amatuer attempt at an analysis of my personality. 
 



With all due respect, Madame4a, i disagree.  i find S/some members are laboring under the misconception that T/they have valuable insight into A/another member's real life based soley on what has been written on the boards.  Members of this type seem anxious to 'share' these insights asap.  i am baffled by this phenom, but i see it over and over again.
 
A/anyone who truely believes that, should i reveal an autobiographical factoid, i have somehow solicited T/their analysis of my real life is just mistaken.
 
pinksugarsub 
 
P.S.  Crickey; the quotey-thing is on the fritz again!

 



pinksugarsub -> RE: D/s Groups & the Dilemma (6/12/2008 12:58:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

i don't know what the deal is. i live in a 3rd or 4th market city, not the boonies.  It shouldn't be so hard, but so far, it has been.


Oh I don't know, perhaps because you avoid doing anything more than someone living 1,000 miles from civilzation could do?

I live near San Francisco, a fairly well established kink friendly city with sex/bdsm club that is open to the general public, another huge dungeon that is only open to scene folks, another dungeon a bit to the south, various pro-domme houses that can be rented and occasionally host parties etc.  They have Folsom Street Fair where they shut down a major avenue for tens of blocks and have an open BDSM party in the streets with people from all over the world taking over the city.

While I am not a major player I get around enough to recognize people, almost NONE of the people from SF that have profiles on CM do I recognize, most of the women are either fake (meaning men pretending to be women) and many of the rest are nutjobs.  There are a handful that seem like sane people who I just haven't run into somewhere.

When I was single and hitting on local women left and right, I never got a response from any of them.

So the fact you can't meet anyone local on the internet doesn't surprise me. 


Michael, wtf have i done to piss You off?
 
If You've been reading my posts, then You know i have made local friends and have dated quite a bit.  (i have stopped dating temporarially because i'm not up to it, physically, but that will pass.)
 
The frustration i was speaking of in the portion of my post You quotted was that i have been so far unable to meet a local female submissive to hang out with, etc.
 
In my 'vanilla' life, girlfriends were always pretty easy to acquire.  i haven't found that to be true as to local submissives here.
 
pinksugarsub
 
 



pinksugarsub -> RE: D/s Groups & the Dilemma (6/12/2008 1:16:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

There are cyber people and there are those who like to meet face to face.  You've obviously made your choice.

By the way, do you have any idea what "knife play" is?


Hi John.  Hope You've been well.
 
May i ask what criteria You use to catagorise A/anyone on the boards as a 'cyber person'?  For the most part, i take posts pretty much at face value.  Occassionally i'll read an Op along the lines of 'Save Me from <insert preposterous story here>' and think -- this member is just yanking O/our chains.  But mostly, i don't make too many assumptions about members' real lives based on what T/they post.
 
Frankly, i'm just not that nosey.  i really don't care enough to try and suss out S/someone's real life circumstances.  On the rare occassion when i do, i email T/them on the other side and start a friendly dialogue.  That's how IronBear and i became F/friends, as it happens.
 
i don't get Yr point about two separate classes of members, one who likes the boards and chat, and another who likes real life meetings.  Why wouldn't a member enjoy both?  Don't You Yrself enjoy both?  Am i wrong, or did You mean to imply that unless S/some chooses to join groups, etc., T/they are not 'real'?
 
On knife play: seems i was wrong.  The term apparently refers to a type of sensation play, not cutting, as i had thought.  i'll be learning about new kinks and fetishes forever i think.  The spectrum of what P/pl are interested in doing is so much bigger than i realised when i first found D/s.
 
pinksugarsub  



pinksugarsub -> RE: D/s Groups & the Dilemma (6/12/2008 1:33:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire

The thing I'd wonder is how you manage anywhere if you have such a reaction to other people. Munches, D/s groups, knitting circles and hikers clubs wil ALL have drama. It isnt limited to the D/s lifestyle.
I have not gone to a munch since until I got Fox, I didnt have anyone to go with and I dislike going to these sorts of things alone. Fox has been to one, in Memphis and greatly enjoyed it. We plan on having our own. I know damn well there wont be any innapropriate behavior at mine, I simply wont allow it.
I do know I had some fairly poor experiences at clubs in NY, but most of those had to do with the drama of people who didnt really know how to play the part they were taking on, and making spectacles of themselves. I do not like BDSM clubs, for the most part, becasue I dont play publically and becasue there was always too many people playing at knowing what they were doing and not enough who actually had a clue.
Everywhere has drama. Work has drama, and I cant avoid that. You cant shut yourself away from the world just to avoid someone elses BS
DV



The way i manage is by being selective about the P/pl i allow into my life.  i'll give most A/anyone a chance -- i can be pretty friendly -- but if i later learn they are a highly dramatic type, i stop seeing T/them.  (Family is an exception; i've had to use a different approach there because i love them and always will, much as they drive me nuts s'times.)
 
Yes, it has happened to me at work.  i had one particular appellate brief i was working on that was especially critical to my agency.  The trial attorney took the last draft of the brief on the day it was due to be filed and began making changes.  i had just about memorized that damned trial record,  and i knew the changes he was making weren't supported by the record. 
 
i confronted him, and he made a move to hit me.  i went to my office and called the general counsel and told him what had just happened. He gave me permission to go home for the day, but there were no consequences to the trial attorney involved.
 
i felt very angry about this at the time, but i couldn't do much about it.  Later, my immediate supervisor was promoted and that same trial attorney was chosen as his successor.  i went to the general counsel again and told him i could not work under this guy, and he transferred me to another area.
 
It wasn't a perfect solution -- it isn't a perfect world.  But it was just enough to allow me to feel safe in my workplace.
 
One reason my quality of life is so much better now is that i'm no longer dealing with the politics and conflicts of representing a state agency. 
 
There may be some truth to the notion that lawyers tend to have certain flaws.  i dunno; maybe garbagemen have their own set of issues at work too.
 
pinksugarsub 



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