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RE: Runaway slaves and the dance of lies - 10/31/2005 11:22:52 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marquise
. My ideal is serfdom or the roman slavery. I am very much into mental dominance, the physical part is not so important to me.

That's mental? It certainly doesn't jive with what I know of the Roman use of slaves. Mostly they were considered what we would call "animate machinery." No one gave a shit what they were thinking or how submissive they felt. As long as they did their jobs they were effectively invisible. Of course, any rebellion or deviation was promptly punished, but we could see that as "troubleshooting malfunctioning machinery."

I'll defer to Tammyjo since she knows a lot more about historical slavery than I

Perhaps the reference is more to the idea of the household slave, one of the higher ranking members of the familia.

In a workshop/lecture I've givena few times on using the model of Roman slavery in my own life, I refer the Roman idea of slave secretary, body servant, and manager. These are types of slaves who could and often did have more personal relationships with their owner. However that never ever negated the fact they were first and foremost tools to be used until they were no longer useful or until they could serve a better use as freedmen/women.

Perhaps it also references the idea that these household slaves are mostly held captive via community standards and legalities than by chains (farm laborers, miners, oarsmen all were chained constantly). These social chains are just as strong as the metal ones and frankly depending on the size of your city, might be even harder to break -- it was common for freedmen/women to move to another town to continue working for their former masters simply because it was easier to be taken seriously in another town than in the same darned place everyone knows you as a slave in. (common is not the same as always)

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to JohnWarren)

Post #: 21

RE: Runaway slaves and the dance of lies - 10/31/2005 11:30:50 AM

Marquise

Posts: 12
Joined: 10/12/2005
Status: offline

Ad roman slavery: That depended on how the master was. The usual way was that slaves were objects without any rights, but could have families (well, owned as well...) and were in a way independent. Not that they did not obey masters orders, but that when they did so, they could lead own lifes in the time that master gave them free.

There was a difference between the situations... and between the "law" and reality as well.

Of course, bad slave would be... punished badly or disposed of. Not really suitable for this age

Ah... I did not notice your post TammyJo, thanks. I am talking exactly about those "higher" slaves.

< Message edited by Marquise -- 10/31/2005 11:35:05 AM >

(in reply to JohnWarren)

Post #: 22

RE: Runaway slaves and the dance of lies - 10/31/2005 7:24:00 PM

pinkpleasures

Posts: 1114
Status: offline

i just wanted to say i am sorry -- been there, done that, got the tee shirt. It's more than rejection -- it undermines your trust in people and in your judgment. The truth is all types of people come online and lie to others; sometimes they seek "relationships" and still lie...they know the other party wants real life and is being deceived, but still they proceed, lying and using us. Some are such accomplished liars that no one can detect them in time.

i hope You find the party who will bring You great happiness, before any more destructive people.

And i like Your nick, as well as Your manner of writing.

pinkpleasures

< Message edited by pinkpleasures -- 10/31/2005 7:26:15 PM >

_____________________________

(in reply to Marquise)

Post #: 23

RE: Runaway slaves and the dance of lies - 10/31/2005 8:14:03 PM

swtnsparkling

Posts: 1738
Joined: 1/1/2004
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You know Pink you are very right with what you say and some are such accomplished liars. But the thing is, a liar has to try and remember everything they have said to you or anyone else they speak with. That is a lot to try and keep straight.
I've found if i keep little notes (and believe me i do keep notes), on certain things or questions i have asked, then after a week maybe two if we are still speaking i will ask those same questions again and see if the answer is the same. They may be good but they always get caught.
my motto: if you always tell the truth then you don't have to try to remember what you said.

_____________________________

Never make anyone a priority who treats you as an option 2003

Walk in Peace

A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better than a "Yes" uttered merely to please

(in reply to pinkpleasures)

Post #: 24

RE: Runaway slaves and the dance of lies - 11/1/2005 1:14:09 PM

DarkDreamers4u

Posts: 12
Joined: 10/20/2005
From: Montreal, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

You can call yourself whatever you like, use whatever kind of language makes you feel more secure in your role. But, if your name was Vanessa, and you spoke standard English, I for one would consider you more of a peer and less of an actress in a very bad melodrama. And the submissives might too.
- BrianTucson -

You, Sir, unfortunately equate fine language with fine literature and thus interpret it to be a false expression of the reality of living. Is it possible that you have never been in the company of refined people who live very real yet larger-then-life lives? Some of us have the gift of self expression, permitting us to share our vision of life through the creative prism of our hearts. We enjoy using language fully to express the naked beauty of our thoughts and feelings. Like a fragrant bouquet that moves far beyond the mind to penetrate the heart and even touch the souls of those who savor it. We must not ignore the beauty of life by treating it casually or in a banal manner but rather we must embrace its magnificence expressing our appreciation for it with joyful exuberance and heartfelt sincerity. With out deep appreciation the delights of this day pass us by and life becomes utterly empty and meaningless. Personally I choose to enjoy a meaningful life.

I have been living this lifestyle for several decades now and unlike you, Sir I would be most honored to share a moment or two with the Marquise, whom I have never met but through her eloquent prose. She is one I consider to be my peer, but certainly not you, Sir, as your use of words betray your state of being: plain, predictable and sedentary. My heart goes out to you, Sir as your experience of living must be dull indeed.

The subs I have attracted find my language to be a reflection of my approach to life and they in turn are creative and highly intelligent individuals that appreciate the finer nuances of the human experience. These subs are worthy of my care and attention as they bring richness and substance to my service. We attract what we reflect, Sir nothing more, nothing less.

Dear Marquise, you express yourself divinely. Know that you are not alone in your journey as many of us have also been ripped and scared by the talons of disappointment and disillusionment. Still we move on with the knowledge that what follows is another sublime Tango so we shine our boots, oil our whips, and step onto the ballroom floor, mask in hand searching out another who will follow our lead.

Keep your head high, your heart open, your dancing shoes at the ready and rant on with splendor and delight, my dear. Rant on!

Dreaming Darkly,
Mister M.

_____________________________

Surrendering to a power greater then one's self is the first step towards Self Mastery!

(in reply to Marquise)

Post #: 25

RE: Runaway slaves and the dance of lies - 11/1/2005 3:26:38 PM

KittenWithaTwist

Posts: 490
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline

quote:

I have been living this lifestyle for several decades now and unlike you, Sir I would be most honored to share a moment or two with the Marquise, whom I have never met but through her eloquent prose. She is one I consider to be my peer, but certainly not you, Sir, as your use of words betray your state of being: plain, predictable and sedentary. My heart goes out to you, Sir as your experience of living must be dull indeed.

Eloquently worded flaming is still flaming.

< Message edited by KittenWithaTwist -- 11/1/2005 3:28:34 PM >

_____________________________

"Time travel: It's a cornocopia of disturbing concepts." ~Ron Stoppable

(in reply to DarkDreamers4u)

Post #: 26

RE: Runaway slaves and the dance of lies - 11/1/2005 5:26:37 PM

JohnWarren

Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KittenWithaTwist

quote:

I have been living this lifestyle for several decades now and unlike you, Sir I would be most honored to share a moment or two with the Marquise, whom I have never met but through her eloquent prose. She is one I consider to be my peer, but certainly not you, Sir, as your use of words betray your state of being: plain, predictable and sedentary. My heart goes out to you, Sir as your experience of living must be dull indeed.

Eloquently worded flaming is still flaming.

Agreed. And it reflects just a poorly on the poster.

_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to KittenWithaTwist)

Post #: 27

RE: Runaway slaves and the dance of lies - 11/1/2005 7:52:58 PM

LadiesBladewing

Posts: 944
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline

I can't speak for Marquise, but I can speak for myself. I see no reason why she (or anyone else for that matter) should have to "minimize" personal style of presentation to make someone else happy. There are people here whose presentation I am not fond of, but other than the idea of going after an idea instead of the person who presents said idea, I try to tend to respect that the way someone presents something is not a personal attack, hubris, or an attempt to belittle others, as much as it is an expression of the way they see themselves--if I like it, all well and good, but if I don't, that is -my- issue.

This seems to me to be an attempt to "blame the victim", and diffuse the issue at hand of dealing with the submissive (or owner) who begins a relationship and then just drops it mid-stream, without even a farewell. I should -not- have to change how I present myself to get a submissive to stay in my household, and if one does not want to stay, he or she should have the COMMON DECENCY to -say- so, and not just disappear and say nothing at all. There is -no- excuse for this kind of behavior, even if there is a poor fit. Even if there is non-consentual violence, there can at least be a preface or a NOTE of "I am leaving and not coming back." If not a matter of respecting the relationship, at -least- a person should have that much respect for him or herself!

Lady Zephyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: BrianTucson

quote:

Till another dawn, till another end of the ball.

Marquise Kira Arael

It's obvious that someone has wasted your time, and I'm very sorry that they did that to you.

These are just my thoughts, but, do you think that the romance novel language and the title and the name might help make this more of a fantasy, kind of a story time, to the people that you're spending your time with? Maybe if they thought of you as a real person they might think of your time together, and your investment in them, as something more substantial.

You can call yourself whatever you like, use whatever kind of language makes you feel more secure in your role. But, if your name was Vanessa, and you spoke standard English, I for one would consider you more of a peer and less of an actress in a very bad melodrama. And the submissives might too.

< Message edited by LadiesBladewing -- 11/1/2005 7:56:06 PM >

(in reply to BrianTucson)

Post #: 28

RE: Runaway slaves and the dance of lies - 11/1/2005 10:47:04 PM

Noah

Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marquise

Runaway slaves... a sad thing.

I'm sorry for your discomfort but I think the advice from Tucson is worth considering. And look how quickly this thread turned into tut-tut-tutting about the duplicty and faithlessness of that other class of people, the slaves. Please. How Roman can you get?

It sucks that you couldn't keep him interested, Marquise, but the facts seem clear. The silent departure might indicate disrespect but I'm in no position to know whether the last ten times he brought a concern to you you exploded or pouted for weeks or otherwise didn't hold up your end. I'm not comfortable indicting this poor bastard without even hearing his side. Did you check the hospitals? Forget to have your postal mail forwarded?

How often do we hear the refrain that respect must be earned? If he didn't show you respect then either you didn't earn it or... what? You chose poorly? Trained poorly? Were immaculate while he was despicable? Need more data.

I suppose that sometimes it is all the fault of the other but isn't there usually responsibility enough to share? It takes two to do that Noble Life Tango your new pal and volunteer champion referred to.

And as for Him and His Most Excellent Society for the Advancement of Highfalutinism...

Wouldn't you love to ride along to hear the verbal exchanges at the counter when he deigns in his deep and hard-earned wisdom and in critical view of all relevant facts to betake his noble and refined personage and indeed perhaps certain retainers from his illustrious and well respected household to the offices of the DMV, there to proffer certain hand-engraved documents along with a prudently arrived at sum of the coin of the realm toward that most worthy goal of refreshing and restoring for another four glorious seasons the civicly recognized validity of that selfsame document which, though tucked securely in the dorsal enclosure of his magnificent horsehide jodhpurs, nevertheless stands in mute testimony to his having personally taken each and every one of the bold steps necessary to secure for himself--though not at the unfair expense of any other person of good will and character--the legal privilege of operating his impeccably oiled and polished personal motor-conveyance on the streets and avenues; boulevards and alleys, highways, byways... yes if I may say so even the very limited access toll roads of that most bountiful and beautiful of provinces in which he has chosen to make his residence and, far more to the crucial and sensitive point at hand to those amongst us who are true and stalwart adherents of the Noble Kinky Way, his domicile, Sir.

Then on the way home if he learned some spelling, grammar and punctuation that would be totally awesome.

As for the dispute regarding which category the missing slave falls into?

Definitely roamin'.

(in reply to Marquise)

Post #: 29

RE: Runaway slaves and the dance of lies - 11/2/2005 3:16:26 AM

sweetpettjenny

Posts: 674
Joined: 11/7/2004
Status: offline

I am sorry you went through this...

(in reply to Marquise)

Post #: 30

RE: Runaway slaves and the dance of lies - 11/2/2005 7:24:18 AM

DarkDreamers4u

Posts: 12
Joined: 10/20/2005
From: Montreal, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

She is one I consider to be my peer, but certainly not you, Sir, as your use of words betray your state of being: plain, predictable and sedentary. My heart goes out to you, Sir as your experience of living must be dull indeed. - Mister M.

I realize now that my words were out of line. Though it was a critisism that inflamed me it was no reason to retun the heat. I had to look up flaming to know what it meant and well it was flaming.

So to you BrianTucson and all the other posters here I humbly appologize if my words belittled or insulted you in any way. It was undignified and crass in spite of the delicate packaging. I will keep the sharpness of my tongue sheathed from now on and approach the boards with a more reflective mind and accepting heart.

Thank you JohnWarren and KittenWithaTwist for your chasitisment as it was more gentle then I deserved.

Respectfully,
Mister M.

_____________________________

Surrendering to a power greater then one's self is the first step towards Self Mastery!

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 31

RE: Runaway slaves and the dance of lies - 11/2/2005 10:33:43 AM

JohnWarren

Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkDreamers4u

Thank you JohnWarren and KittenWithaTwist for your chasitisment as it was more gentle then I deserved.

To make a mistake is human. To recognize it an apologize is a major step upward. You're welcome and I hope to see your future posts

_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to DarkDreamers4u)

Post #: 32

RE: Runaway slaves and the dance of lies - 11/3/2005 3:43:57 PM

windchymes

Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline

Well, for the record, it ain't just the slaves who disappear. (Sorry, I'm not in the mood to try to be eloquent!)

Early in my BDSM explorations, a "Dom" took me in (via the internet...I don't need to say more, but I will) for "training", education and friendship/bonding/whatever. He was as chivalrous as they come, very well-spoken and knowledgeable, kind and thoughtful. My "training" lasted for several months, and he was so very pleased....but then he suddenly became distant and then disappeared altogether with no explanation.

Yeah, maybe his company got busted for fraud and he's doing time; maybe he was in 47-car pile-up on the Capital Beltway and is now in a permanent vegetative state; maybe his wife had him killed for the insurance money. Or maybe he's just a jerk.

I was concerned and hurt for awhile but life went on. It always does.

quote:

To make things clearer. Yes, I took a slave who looked very sincere but was very shy, so he wanted to start via chat and email. No phones, no webcams, no RL first. I think he had some private issues, who knows.

To me, this has WIFE written all over it.

I like your style, Marquise. Hang in there, you'll find the right one.

windchymes

(in reply to JohnWarren)

Post #: 33

RE: Runaway slaves and the dance of lies - 11/4/2005 6:03:15 AM

Jaothcg

Posts: 1
Joined: 5/28/2004
Status: offline

Several years back, I spent the better part of 5-6 months getting to know a "lady" from the NE US, who professed to be almost divorced, seperated for over a year from her husband, living alone. We went through a number of things together, online over the phone, on cam. When the time neared where one of us was going to travel to finally have a face-to-face meeting, there was suddenly silence for about 7-10 days, then a tenative contact via her messenger account, from her "daughter" who said her "mother" had gone into coma and was on life support, the result of terminal cancer. Sure enough some days later, same person reported that the life support had been terminated per her wishes, and that she had passed away. After a few really ugly weeks, and repeated evasions about when/where the funeral was, where the body/ashes were to be placed, it became apparent that there had been no death and that I was speaking with the same person I had been speaking with before. The rest of the story matters little, suffice to say we are no longer in communication.
My point is that you are not alone, I was surprised to find out how many others had experienced almost exactly the same game played on them. I have no suggestion as to how to protect yourself from this sort of idiocy, but I know it has made me considerably less open and less willing to trust anyone online.

Jaothcg

(in reply to Marquise)

Post #: 34

RE: Runaway slaves and the dance of lies - 11/4/2005 7:52:49 AM

windchymes

Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline

Sorry to hear, Jaothcg....

Fortunately for me, the scenario described above was a minor and trivial part of my life. I did, however, experience something more similar to what you described. It was three years....but rather than fake his own death, he just slept with somebody, and then hemmed and hawed for a month over his real feelings...because if he loved me, then how could he have done what he did??? (His logic) And he had a "crush" on her. After a month, I set HIM free and after a really rough anguished time, I moved on.

I hear he had one more date with her but is still alone....having hot sex in the chat rooms. I'm seeing now that there are people out there who are pretty good at faking relationships online. But reality just doesn't do it for them.

I've decided to stay in reality. It's a lonely place, sometimes, but at least it's real.

windchymes

(in reply to Jaothcg)

Post #: 35

RE: Runaway slaves and the dance of lies - 11/4/2005 9:05:13 PM

MistressYlwa

Posts: 263
Joined: 8/25/2005
Status: offline

Marquise,

I know exactly what you are talking about. You invest quite a bit of time in getting to know someone. They appear to be exactly what you are looking for. You open yourself up to another person. Sharing those things that are important to you. Prepare yourself to allow another person into your life. Then *poof* they are gone.

It causes distress. It can make you question yourself. But in the end, we just move on. Which is, I am sure, what you did. But the aftermath is what is worse.

We lose trust. That is something that I feel the worst about. That I allowed myself to take it personally. Questioning the sincerety of everyone who contacted me. If they did not respond as I felt they should, I automatically felt that I was being played again. It took a long time to move past that.

All I can share with you, now, is that it will pass. You may have others that will "disappear". But the one you seek will be there for you. Patience is something I have little of, for the most part. But this is too important to us. And that patience will pay off in the long run.

Mistress Ylwa

You see what power is - holding someone elses fear in your hand and showing it to them! - Amy Tan

(in reply to windchymes)

Post #: 36

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