Is it all about "being happy" (Full Version)

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LadiesBladewing -> Is it all about "being happy" (10/31/2005 5:02:07 PM)

I have a question for the group, and am not entirely certain that I will be able to word it so that it can be answered.

I've read any number of posts on this board, about who we perceive ourselves to be, how we perceive that we should behave around others, and our expectations about how we expect people to interact with us. I've heard comments made (typically about difficult situations that are a huge challenge for the participants), that this lifestyle is all about being "happy", and if a person isn't happy, they should get out of whatever they are doing, and go find something that -does- make them happy.

How many people feel that this is -really- what this lifestyle is about? (And this is where asking the question gets tricky...) I'm not really asking if we should aspire to happiness in our lives. That, pretty much, seems a "given" to me. However, my question is about whether the happiness should be expected to come from the lifestyle, or even from the person that we are with, or whether it is up to -us- to create happiness by the way that we -look- at situations, and by the personal dignity and pride that comes from solving a difficult problem, or overcoming a large and pervasive hurdle that has brought home an amazing lesson about our capabilities?



____________________My Thoughts__________________
I've thought long and hard about this, because I am in a poly household, and one of the things that I want for the people with whom I share my life is a household that embraces us with joy. However, in order to keep a household like this running, there are -going- to be times when we will be less than happy, circumstances will just plain SUCK, and when we will have to work like DOGS to try to figure out a way around some mess that has cropped up amongst us. One of the things that I feel is crucial to the process of Ownership is the recognition that I can't give up on my property (or on my beloveds and offspring), even when it would be -sooooo- easy to just say "I Quit"...and while I am struggling with whatever challenge I am facing, it is unlikely that I will have much externally-imposed happiness. HOWEVER, I believe that our happiness can be consistent, shaped not by our current circumstances, but by the way that we look at our world. I don't look at my life as a nasty trick that is designed for me to fail. I look at my life, including my participation in -all- the aspects of the lifestyle and poly, as an opportunity to learn amazing things about myself and about the people that I am with. With this approach, happiness doesn't come from WIITID or who I do it with -- I -imbue- the situation with happiness, because I allow myself to be joyful in the process of doing whatever I have to do.

So... is the lifestyle here to make us happy...or do we create our happiness and bring it to the lifestyle?

Lady Zephyr





LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Is it all about "being happy" (10/31/2005 5:17:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadiesBladewing
How many people feel that this is -really- what this lifestyle is about?

This is what LIFE is about- being who we are and being fulfilled in who we are. Becoming who we will be.

It just so happens that part of it for me involves this lifestyle.
quote:


So... is the lifestyle here to make us happy...or do we create our happiness and bring it to the lifestyle?

Lady Zephyr

Can I beornery and just say "yes"?

Ultimately we must create our own happiness, because it comes only from a sense of inner fulfillment.

However, there are things that innately resonate to us, that bring us happiness on its own.

Eating strawberries makes me happy. It just does. Being in a world where I can eat strawberries is a happier world for me and I enjoy it.

However, I don't think strawberries will make my entire life fulfilled, eating strawberries won't make me a better communicator, it won't make me more understanding of the world.

It is our choice to surround ourselves with things that will help us become and experience who we are. I don't see life as a huge hurdle to climb, but the facts are that life will put hurdles in front of us. We must enjoy what we can, and be who we are. There's just no other way.




Sensualips -> RE: Is it all about "being happy" (10/31/2005 5:26:34 PM)

I believe that the lifestyle is about people and I can not rely on a person to make me happy. I also would not want to be completely responsible for the happiness of another. It is an unfair burden at best.

Another person may give me a sense of purpose, validation, acceptance, excitement, or any number of things. A relationship may have entertainment value or intellectual value. The lifestyle and or people I am involved with can contribute my happiness, but not "make me happy" and more than it can force me to be miserable. Those are choices.

For me, happiness is not something that can given or withheld.




hedonisticToy -> RE: Is it all about "being happy" (10/31/2005 5:27:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadiesBladewing
or whether it is up to -us- to create happiness by the way that we -look- at situations, and by the personal dignity and pride that comes from solving a difficult problem, or overcoming a large and pervasive hurdle that has brought home an amazing lesson about our capabilities?


My belief is that many people somehow get the idea in childhood that life is supposed to be nice and easy. We are supposed to be blissfully happy every moment of our lives and if not we should run away from the thing that vexes us, literally or figuratively.

Life is hard. Life is pain.

The joys in life come from facing and conquering our fears, trials and tribulations. It comes from realizing we can survive...and more than this - prosper.

I have found that happiness comes from facing forward not looking backward. We stumble less when we keep our eyes on the road ahead, when we keep our hopes and goals in sight, and keep finding ways to move toward them.

Sometimes that means being flexible enough to know when to change directions, when to adopt new goals...

Is this easy? No. But it is challenging and exciting and never dull.

In many ways it is all about your perspective...You can choose to be happy or not happy. You can choose to surround yourself with people who enhance your life, and help you celebrate your triumphs. You can reach out for help when you need it.

Or you can choose to feel sorry for yourself, moan, whine, and hang around with people who put you down or bring you down.

These, to me, are very fundamental truths that rule my life. Truths that I revisit, reassess, and renew as part of an ongoing desire to live a healthy, meaningful life.

Cin






pinkpleasures -> RE: Is it all about "being happy" (10/31/2005 5:29:02 PM)

Being happy is a goal (if we have food and shelter, etc.) that seems to drive most people; part of being happy is selecting and deselecting people to include in one's life. It is natural to give thought to the most intimate and (hopefully) lifelong relationship we will have, after that with our kids. Fantasy also plays a role, as does sexual attraction, activities that make us come like a jack-hammer, etc.

However, it is a sad person who is not contented with their own company; who contributes nothing to his/her community; who never attends any spiritual functions (or leads a spiritual life; moral for the athetists).

None of these has much to do with being involved with a Dom, or whatever you aspire to, and if you don't figure out other people cannot make you happy by themselves, you'll feel a great emptiness at times.

pinkpleasures




Padriag -> RE: Is it all about "being happy" (10/31/2005 6:05:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadiesBladewing

So... is the lifestyle here to make us happy...or do we create our happiness and bring it to the lifestyle?

I would say... the lifestyle can be a means of achieving happiness. We all seek things that bring us happiness or are a means of us creating it. The lifestyle can be a way to reach that goal for some of us. I think the posts you refer to were trying to say that... that there is little point in participating in this lifestyle if it isn't helping you achieve that overall happiness.

That doesn't mean that every moment of it should be filled with joy... we all have bad days, there will always be unpleasant moments. But overall, it should be a good thing.

Its also true we create our own happiness... or in other words, we learn to make the best of situations we can't avoid. That might be making the best of a visit to relatives on the holidays when some of them are people who drive us nuts! Or it might be a submissive making the best of a task that isn't enjoyable... but is part of their submissive relationship (which they do enjoy).

Sometimes in life we accept small amounts of suffering for greater amounts of pleasure... but if pursuing this lifestyle becomes largely suffering, I would question why someone is in it then.





IronBear -> RE: Is it all about "being happy" (10/31/2005 6:32:40 PM)

What is happiness?

Such a simple child like question and yet the answer is both complex and simple.

It is simple because happiness is the state of being where we feel good about what we are doing and getting pleasure from.

It is complex, because humans are complex creatures filled with curiosity and mostly not knowing what will make them happy until they experience it, and understanding that what made them happy today may not make them happy tomorrow.

To some they need to experience all that life has to offer in the search of happiness and yet for others just being alive and safe with friends can make them happy.

The kink lifestyle is a tool, the BDSM activities are tools, the Gorean Lifestyle is a tool, the Pagan or any religious life are tools. All which can be utilised to fine some degree of happiness. However if you have no happiness within you, I defy you to fine it without you. Happiness and sadness are two sides of the same coin. To appreciate happiness you must also experience sadness. To appreciate pleasure, you must experience pain (of some form).

For me, I find happiness in many areas of my life, just as I find sadness.

Here with a Loaf of Bread beneath the Bough,
A Flask of Wine, a Book of Verse – and Thou
Beside me singing in the Wilderness –
And Wilderness is Paradise enow.

(Rubáiyát of Omar Khayyám ~ First Edition, 1859)




perverseangelic -> RE: Is it all about "being happy" (10/31/2005 6:46:58 PM)

I wouldn't say that life and this life is about being happy so much as being fufilled--about working toward being the kind of person that satisfies your desires and ambitions and dreams.

I think that this relationship style, like -any- relationship style is about finding a way to interact with other people that brings you closer to them and brings you pleasure.

For me, fufillment is more than happyness. It's got the element of knowing that your life is being worthwhile to both yourself and the world at large.




Estring -> RE: Is it all about "being happy" (10/31/2005 7:39:29 PM)

Things that make us happy are not always easy. Ask anyone here who is a parent. Happiness is a process, not a destination. In relationships there are always ups and downs. And the fact that you understand that your happiness is not dependent on external factors makes it more than likely that you are happy.




Wolfie648 -> RE: Is it all about "being happy" (10/31/2005 11:17:40 PM)

I've been unhappy all my life (growing up) listening to others rules, subjecting myself to the economics of having to pay the rent - I have been fortunate to be able to raise myself above the basic needs (there is a 5 step chart as sociologists used to see it (not sure if there have been updates to it) - I think pink can supply it if not I'll rummage around).

I can't imagine anything other than being happy by my own definition. Imagine the alternatives.

Perhaps this is a black and white interpretation but ask yourself do you want black or white or do you want to sit on the grey fence?

D (owner of j)




Kasia -> RE: Is it all about "being happy" (11/1/2005 12:19:02 AM)

Can say only for myself.
I like life being hard. Gives me plenty of challenges and opportunities to fight and win. If life was totally easy I would find it dull. I am the kind of person that shows herself best in chrisis and hard times. And I am very happy that way.

My hubby usually laughs at me and says I have the spirit of a small child - I can get totally thrilled over some rock or flower and the best date for me would be taking me to the zoo. I am never bored and love to be occupied with plenty of things... I love my job, I like housework, I knit, I sew, paint, write stories, make webpages, I love to cook and drive around. I am busy and 95% of my time very happy and easy to go person.

The only thing that makes me unhappy, in any "lifestyle" or out of it are expectations. When people want me to change my life or myself according to their expectations. I can do that to some minor points, but in general its something that makes me angry and unhappy.
Like when my ex expected me to show more of my emotions, I am just not the kind that expresses herself that way. When I say "I like you" it means more than someone saying "I adore you". So, my ex started to make me unhappy and I ended the marriage.
I am never compromising if I feel something is really bothering me and making unhappy, be it people, jobs, apartmants, anything. I take my time to see what can I get out of it, and if it is not satisfying I just quit and find another. Never go back once I decide to leave.




Jacques1000 -> RE: Is it all about "being happy" (11/1/2005 12:34:17 AM)

Many more people would find fulfilment and contentment if they abandoned the notion of happiness, (particularly thay encouraged by the patriarchial-capitalist complex) and discovered themselves and others on their own terms. [8D]




Kasia -> RE: Is it all about "being happy" (11/1/2005 12:42:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jacques1000

Many more people would find fulfilment and contentment if they abandoned the notion of happiness, (particularly thay encouraged by the patriarchial-capitalist complex) and discovered themselves and others on their own terms. [8D]

Are you suggesting I should too "abandon" the word "happy" and find some of my own? Everyone is having their own notion of happiness on their own terms, we are all different people.




Padriag -> RE: Is it all about "being happy" (11/1/2005 1:19:24 AM)

Just a point to ponder.

Fulfilled has as its root meaning to fill, filled.
Contentment has as its root meaning to contain (ie filled).
Satisfied means literally to be sated... as in a sated appetite... literally a full stomach (filled).
Happiness means a state of well-being, contentment, a pleasurable satisfaction.
The root word of happiness is hap from Middle English which means good fortune or fortunate. Who were the fortunate of that time, those who had full stomachs (sated), who lived a full life (and its no coincedince we use that phrase... full as in fill or fulfilled... to describe a happy life)... the fortunate were happy because they were fulfilled and content.

Thus... fulfilled, content, satisfied, happy are synonyms in this context.




Jacques1000 -> RE: Is it all about "being happy" (11/1/2005 1:38:55 AM)

Essentially, yes. [:)]




Cindersslipper1 -> RE: Is it all about "being happy" (11/1/2005 2:38:03 AM)

I've spent years being miserable from others words and convictions, i finally realised that i cant rely or expect anyone to be there to make me happy, i have to be happy with myself first before i can entertain any thoughts of being happy with others.

find what it is that makes you happy or better yet find what it is that has made you unhappy and deal with it learn from it and leave it behind embrace yourself and self love and find peace within then go and find someone to gift your new found knowledge on.. wait and see the chain reaction...

J




Oberonrex -> RE: Is it all about "being happy" (11/1/2005 2:58:16 AM)


quote:


So... is the lifestyle here to make us happy...or do we create our happiness and bring it to the lifestyle?

Lady Zephyr


The lifestyle is but one part of a path towards growth and contentment. Happiness has come to have what I feel is a false meaning: a Hollywood fluffiness of saccharine sweetness where everything is perfect. My own thought is that such only exists in the unreality of entertainment. Happiness is meeting a new person, getting to know them, and have them become a part of your life. Sorrow is losing them all too quickly to cancer. Contentment comes from accepting the gifts they have given you, in thought and in love, and knowing that they will be with you always. I like to be happy, and I want others to be so; yet, true happiness comes from the odd mixture of pain, joy, sorrow, and growth that is life.




plantlady64 -> RE: Is it all about "being happy" (11/1/2005 6:27:20 AM)

Hello There,
I feel this lifestyle isn't about being happy all the time it's about being open to alternate notions.
I think what people mean when they say they want a relationship that makes them happy is that they want one that is fulfilling for both parties.

I don't think even the most happy people in the world don't have bad days, hard days and days they need some space from each other.
I think being fulfilled over all in your quality of life is what being happy means, not that everything is always on an up swing.
Sincerely,
sub suzanne




Faramir -> RE: Is it all about "being happy" (11/1/2005 6:49:55 AM)

Ok, this is a pretty deep question - some of the greatest, most cogent minds in human history have asked what is our end?

I'm drawn very strongly to Aristotle, and I find his articulation of eudaimonia very compelling. Aristotle thinks that "the good," eudaimonia , is a priori what we seek, and so he agress with those here who say that we should be "happy." He goes into great detail about what it means to be "happy" however: to pursue aretē and fully realize yourself as a wise, knowledgeable, virtuous person who made that virtue a practice of habit. If I could brutally summarize, being "happy"" means being "good" in a very broad and comprehensive sense.

I respond to that - the understanding that excellence is excellent, that good is good, that right is right, has always resonated with me. I've taught my children about aretē since they were breeched, although they as yet see it mainly in atheletic and scholastic effort. The rest will come.

But for all my natural inclination towards Aristotle, I see something beyond what he has to say (perhaps it is implied, but not considered); perhaps in a different continuum.

I find Buber's articulation of relationships as the sole reality highly resonant as well. Knowing, I to Thou, seems to be our highest purpose - perhaps the fullest portion of eudaimonia is in knowing I-Thou. Nothing else matters, nothing esle is real, save the relationships we have. Reeds bent, feathers in the wind: everything we find calling us to be of the world. Wilbur understood this. From Love Calls Us to the Things of This World:

quote:

Yet, as the sun acknowledges
With a warm look the world's hunks and colors,
The soul descends once more in bitter love
To accept the waking body, saying now
In a changed voice as the man yawns and rises,

``Bring them down from their ruddy gallows;
Let there be clean linen for the backs of thieves;
Let lovers go fresh and sweet to be undone,
And the heaviest nuns walk in a pure floating
Of dark habits,
keeping their difficult balance.''


It is our fellow spirits in this world that must call us back to it.

So for me, yes, happiness is "the point of this lifestyle." The question is: what does this happiness consist of? Like Buber, like Wilbur, like Jesus, I think it is knowing, I-Thou. More intimacy, more closeness, more love and unity.

This is eudaimonia.




Phoenxx -> RE: Is it all about "being happy" (11/1/2005 7:22:47 AM)

I love how Padriag defined the words. After all, isn’t the meat of the question is also what makes you happy?
I was once told that people move from perceived pain to perceived pleasure. And that when the perceived pain in a relationship outweighs the perceived pleasure, you are emotionally leaving already.
Yes, there are struggles in any and all relationships. A good example is children. A woman goes through some of the most painful moments of her life to bring a child into the world. And then, in our societies we get to endure years of physical and mental torture. Sitting through Christmas concerts at schools, listening to caterwauling bratty kids while sitting in chairs that the Geneva Convention would forbid POW’s to have to sit in. And we clap, saying how great it was to see our child up there. Pleasure outweighs pain. The whole terrible two’s, the years from 12 to 16 and on…
All for the pleasure of having our children. Well the perceived pleasure.
In 15 minutes I get to wake up a 16 year old male, to get him to go to school… now there is pain … for me LOL
It is the same with a lifestyle choice. As long as your pleasure outweighs your pain, you are happy. After all how many of us have done jobs that we were not fond of to have the pleasure of a roof over our heads, food and so on. The pleasure of one outweighed the pain of the other.
And let’s face it, most people tend to see the good more then the bad. Or what couple would have a second child.
You make up your own happiness and your own pain. At least that is how I see it.
Gotta run… I think I will try ice cold water today….
(just kidding)
Tony





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