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Troubling texts? - 6/13/2008 4:09:56 PM   
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McLEAN, Va. - Textbooks at a private Islamic school in northern Virginia teach students that it is permissible for Muslims to kill adulterers and converts from Islam, according to a federal investigation released Wednesday.



Other passages in the school's textbooks state that "the Jews conspired against Islam and its people" and that Muslims are permitted to take the lives and property of those deemed "polytheists."



The passages were found in selected textbooks used during the 2007-08 school year by the Islamic Saudi Academy, which teaches 900 students in grades K-12 at two campuses in Alexandria and Fairfax and receives much of its funding from the Saudi government.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25106145/

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RE: Troubling texts? - 6/13/2008 4:12:14 PM   
SingleRarity


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Status: offline 		Doesn't the bible say similar things?

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RE: Troubling texts? - 6/13/2008 4:20:19 PM   
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RE: Troubling texts? - 6/13/2008 4:27:32 PM   
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ORIGINAL: SingleRarity

Doesn't the bible say similar things?

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Similar, yes, but it's seldom taught to be taken literally, or rather, taught as a way to behave in this day and age. I wonder how the Islamic texts in question were presented to those students?

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RE: Troubling texts? - 6/13/2008 4:35:07 PM   
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quote:



The passages were found in selected textbooks used during the 2007-08 school year by the Islamic Saudi Academy, which teaches 900 students in grades K-12 at two campuses in Alexandria and Fairfax and receives much of its funding from the Saudi government.



When religion is used for political purposes it's always very ugly - I'd be curious to see the texts in question nonetheless.

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RE: Troubling texts? - 6/13/2008 4:39:01 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		I am a Christian....but I don't believe any religion should teach killing...children or adults. The separation of church and state is very important but no religion should be allowed a teaching that directly breaks the laws of our country.

There are many religious teaching that are prohibited in our country and the above should be one.


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RE: Troubling texts? - 6/13/2008 4:39:29 PM   
FullCircle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
quote:


....and receives much of its funding from the Saudi government.



They don't need to train terrorists in the US because the US is capable of terrorising itself. It's a case of job done on all counts. Everyone an enemy.


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RE: Troubling texts? - 6/13/2008 4:41:17 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

There are many religious teaching that are prohibited in our country and the above should be one.



Wow. Tell that to a certain segment of the collarme crowd.

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RE: Troubling texts? - 6/13/2008 5:48:34 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
When religion is used for political purposes it's always very ugly - I'd be curious to see the texts in question nonetheless.

 
Agreed.

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RE: Troubling texts? - 6/13/2008 5:53:12 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I am a Christian....but I don't believe any religion should teach killing...children or adults. The separation of church and state is very important but no religion should be allowed a teaching that directly breaks the laws of our country.
What law(s) are they breaking, exactly?

quote:

There are many religious teaching that are prohibited in our country and the above should be one.


What religious teachings are prohibited in the US?

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RE: Troubling texts? - 6/13/2008 6:05:41 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub


There are many religious teaching that are prohibited in our country and the above should be one.




Do you have a cite for religious teachings which are banned by law in private institutions because I'd love to read it.

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RE: Troubling texts? - 6/13/2008 6:21:08 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		No I don't but I guess I could search...But I'd be willing to bet human sacrifice would be one... as well as forced sex with children... The  forcible mutilation of female body parts for religious purposes. I don't think there is a right to kill your child because they go out with a man you don't approve of. I'm pretty sure you can't throw rocks  until death at a woman that has been unfaithful to her husband. I believe it is against the law to kill homosexuals in this country....I could think of more with time I'm sure.

I don't mean this post to be disrespectful in any way...I just thought things like the above did not need  to be researched to be reasonable sure they are true.

Butch

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RE: Troubling texts? - 6/13/2008 7:57:57 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

No I don't but I guess I could search...But I'd be willing to bet human sacrifice would be one... as well as forced sex with children... The  forcible mutilation of female body parts for religious purposes. I don't think there is a right to kill your child because they go out with a man you don't approve of. I'm pretty sure you can't throw rocks  until death at a woman that has been unfaithful to her husband. I believe it is against the law to kill homosexuals in this country....I could think of more with time I'm sure.

I don't mean this post to be disrespectful in any way...I just thought things like the above did not need  to be researched to be reasonable sure they are true.

Butch


Well, now, are you talking about laws in which the teachings are actually applied or laws regarding teaching the subjects themselves? You believe there is a ban on teaching human sacrifice so can I assume that 'eating the body of Christ' and 'drinking the blood of Christ' as is taught in many parochial schools would come under that definition? I mean, it's cannabalism, right? Doesn't that require human sacrifice? And, mutilating genitalia for religious purpose sure sounds like a Jewish bris to me. One of your examples is TOSable so I'm not going to address it but stoning a woman to death, killing homosexuals, sacrificing your child on God's command are all Old Testament and that's taught all the time. It's just not practiced in this country. Are you suggesting that teaching and practicing what you've been taught are one in the same thing?

The Bible is often used as a textbook in private schools .. which parts should be stricken from being taught? God's mass murder of almost the entire population of the planet during the great flood or maybe just the demolition of S & G since that was only two cities. Maybe the scripture where it's suggested that if your eye offends you should pluck it out? Gotta love a little self-mutilation, right? Which of your religious teachings are you willing to give up because to others they may sound barbaric?

I did a search after your post and couldn't find any case law anywhere which supported it. I did, however, find several that countered it including several Supreme Court cases, so, yes, when you make statements of fact you should be able to support them or expect to be questioned.

You can hold the opinion that Islamic private schools should not be allowed to teach their students the religion of their choice, but there are no laws on the books which prevent it and several on the books which support it even if, to you, they sound monstrous.

I'm still willing to read any cites you care to provide though if you want to continue. I'm a pretty good researcher but not infallible so I might have missed a way to google that you would not miss.

I found several case laws so the sources would have to have some sort of equivilant stature to at least state level Supreme Court or Appellate court decisions.

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RE: Troubling texts? - 6/13/2008 8:26:05 PM   
JulieorSarah


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Status: offline 		The Klu Klux Klan teaches such loving texts too ... as does the bible, and about a million other texts and for that matter conversations at your corner store ...

i can't help thinking of Senator John McCarthy when these threads appear, maybe Marilyn Monroe's playwright husband's play, the Crucible, should be compulsory study in all schools .... it's all fiction, unfortunately the Crucible still has relevance to everyone today ...

There are books out there that even teach you how to lace up the skin with needles and thread, leave pretty patterns on a bottom with a crop or paddle, and how to restrain and gag people for hours ... what sane person would do these things ... lets burn all books now .. they are all subversive ...

< Message edited by JulieorSarah -- 6/13/2008 8:28:18 PM >

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RE: Troubling texts? - 6/13/2008 8:32:08 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		Be real .... You know better... don't lower yourself to absurdities... I believe you think I am picking on a particular religion...I'm not...ANY religious practise that is breaking a United States law should be confronted...

Butch

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RE: Troubling texts? - 6/13/2008 8:37:04 PM   
pinksugarsub


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Status: offline 		Level, can You expand a little on the Op?
 
Were the statements You quoted found in history textbooks?  Social sciences?  Religious instruction?
 
In any event, the statements You quoted are disturbing.  The fact that the school gets its funding from the Saudi government makes me uneasy as well.
 
pinksugarsub
 
 

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RE: Troubling texts? - 6/13/2008 8:44:53 PM   
kittinSol


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RE: Troubling texts? - 6/13/2008 9:09:49 PM   
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Status: offline 		Actually, there are a lot of precedents for the restriction of the belief structures of certain religions. Excellent example - the Mormons, who had to rewrite their dogma to get rid of polygamy before Utah could recieve statehood. Recently the Texas authorities went into the FLDS compound, admittedly the court overruled but that was due to procedural errors and I am SURE that the FLDS have not had their last encounter with the Texas lawmen. Hell, the judge who ruled against CPS is recieving death threats now and is in hiding per the Houston Chronicle. Likewise, numerous native american faiths have been restricted regarding the use of hallucinogenic plants to enter the spririt realm. Female genital mutilation is prohibited by two texas laws
TEX. HEALTH & SAFETY CODE § 167.001 (2005) and TEX. FAM. CODE ANN. § 153.502 (2005)
 
Legally, the courts have consistently held that the constitutional right to free exercise of religion does not extend to practices which violate state or federal law or which are contrary to public safety, or order of society. It must be that way, or every law could be circumvented by religion. Sorry cant pay taxes my religion prohibits it. Sorry, you cant send me to prison my religion specifically prohibits me being in a locked room.  Sorry, Im not a prostitute I am a High Priestess of Aphrodite and my religion requires me to rent out my body....  Precedent after precedent and statute after statute shows that they can , will, and do regulate religion... Ya know, the Jonestown cult, Branch Davidions in Waco, and Manson Family were all "religions"....


< Message edited by DomAviator -- 6/13/2008 9:10:25 PM >

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RE: Troubling texts? - 6/13/2008 9:11:00 PM   
Real_Trouble


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Status: offline 		To wit on the banning of teachings...

No.

There is, however, the banning of practice; that's a different story.  For the most part, I can say or teach whatever I would like (barring the few forms of restricted speech we genuinely have, such as threatening to kill the president), but on the flip side of the coin, for me to actually perform human sacrifice does break laws.

Likewise, I get the impression (though confess I have not done all the research) that this is a privately funded school.  In which case, the government actually does have very little authority over what they teach, minus meeting some basic educational standards and that they cannot be actually practicing some of those teachings without breaking laws...

Last, literal readings of old texts are always dangerous.  The Bible is rife with troublesome statements.  Bhagavad Gita as well.  And so on.  Seems like cherry picking on the part of the news to sensationalize a story to me, but they'd never do that, right?


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RE: Troubling texts? - 6/13/2008 9:14:24 PM   
kittinSol


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Status: offline 		Flip side of the religious coin: the Wesboro Baptist Church . These people are fucking insane... and they subject their brood to the most insane rhetorical violence  .

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