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Family Values - 6/14/2008 1:00:56 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		       So I had a phone call this morning from a relative who is now pretty pissed off at me.  It seems her 25 y/o son and his roomate have been evicted from the trailer they were renting, and he is homeless.  He cannot stay with her, but since I have a big house... 

    I said no.  I was a bit annoyed that she would even ask

     This is not a good, hardworking kid who hit a rough patch.  No skills, anger issues, a piss-poor attitude, and the ever-popular entitlement mentality.  Drugs?  Oh you betcha, with convictions.  He's not completely stupid, there is hope he can get himself together, but he is at a critical point.  

      Setting aside the fact that I wouldn't trust him not to bring chaos into my home, letting him in would be the worst thing for him.  I have all the comforts a lazy stoner could want; a/c, movie channels, x-box, fridge-freezer-pantry and even a massive old stereo system.   What lesson does he learn from that?  Fail to succeed? 

      The delusion that I could mentor him towards productive change is just that.  I would be the rulegiver and authority figure, and he's not inclined to pay much attention to rules and authority.  The only voices he will hear at first are going to be hunger, discomfort, pain, and fear.  I hope they get his attention in ways others can't.


       Yet he is family, and I'm thinking a bit about what obligation that places on me, and what obligations others feel towards family.

       I'll probably play Salvation Army a few times over the summer.  A shower, a meal, and a sermon on the ride to the shelter.  The first time he disrespects the house will be the last time he comes in.  I was raised to believe that a bit of shared DNA puts a burden on me to offer something, at least conditionally.  If he was a brother, I'd feel obligated to do a lot more.  That's just me, I don't wish to judge.

       Assuming you were capable of doing it, how far would go to help such a relative?  How far along the family tree does the obligation stretch?

     

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RE: Family Values - 6/14/2008 1:03:46 PM   
colouredin


Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline 		Brothers and Sisters, Mother and Father beyond that I wouldnt go out of my way to help them if it was something like that.

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RE: Family Values - 6/14/2008 1:07:39 PM   
FullCircle


Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
      Assuming you were capable of doing it, how far would go to help such a relative?  How far along the family tree does the obligation stretch?


Any of my nuclear family I would do anything for.

Cousins etc. I'd do a little less for. I think your problem is you've probably done things for this person in the past and they have proved themselves not worthy of your help in the future. I'm a mug I'd probably always help no matter what the track record because if the worst was to happen it would always play on my mind and I'd miss them regardless.


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RE: Family Values - 6/14/2008 1:08:44 PM   
Level


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Joined: 3/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

             Yet he is family, and I'm thinking a bit about what obligation that places on me, and what obligations others feel towards family.

      I'll probably play Salvation Army a few times over the summer.  A shower, a meal, and a sermon on the ride to the shelter.  The first time he disrespects the house will be the last time he comes in.  I was raised to believe that a bit of shared DNA puts a burden on me to offer something, at least conditionally.  If he was a brother, I'd feel obligated to do a lot more.  That's just me, I don't wish to judge.

      Assuming you were capable of doing it, how far would go to help such a relative?  How far along the family tree does the obligation stretch?     


It ends with my mom.
 
That isn't to say I wouldn't help a relative, but if I did, it'd be because I wanted to, and I assure you, Rich, wanting to would have absolutely zero to do with being related to them.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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RE: Family Values - 6/14/2008 1:15:39 PM   
cjan


Posts: 3513
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline 		Heretic, for once, I agree with you. Particularly on your focus that "enabling" him would do him no service. I think that making peeps ( no matter what their age ) face the consequences of their own choices and actions ( or inactions ) is the only way to really help them.

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RE: Family Values - 6/14/2008 1:16:33 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Sounds to me like You are prepared to do all IMO You are beholden to .Nuclear Family is different ,in this case it's extended Family and in that case I "extend" a little less

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RE: Family Values - 6/14/2008 1:22:12 PM   
PanthersMom


Posts: 2215
Joined: 11/26/2007
From: Cleveland Ohio
Status: offline 		helped out a sister and her no good husband after a fire left them homeless.  what did i get for my troubles?  when their relationship went sour he threatened to sneak into the hospital where my newborn  son was in the nicu and disconnect him from his support.  never again.  my kids, my parents, maybe a couple of my sibs out of the 5, but not everyone.
PM

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RE: Family Values - 6/14/2008 1:29:36 PM   
spinninsweetness


Posts: 477
Joined: 3/6/2008
From: London
Status: offline 		I'd have to say no also. I have a couple of cousins with convictions, dealing, possesion, GBH, ABH, robbing cars... I could go on.

Would say no. To them or to anyone asking on their behalf.

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RE: Family Values - 6/14/2008 1:42:47 PM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline 		So why can her son not stay with her?  Alot of people are quick to say that, but in my experience, in few cases it is really true.  There are generally Section 8 situations, or if the parent is living in a retirement complex where residents are strictly controlled.

Other than that, it is generally that it is just not comfortable.  If none of the above situations apply, he can always sleep on her floor.

Cali


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RE: Family Values - 6/14/2008 2:23:59 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

Assuming you were capable of doing it, how far would go to help such a relative? How far along the family tree does the obligation stretch?

Would I help?  Absolutely.

I would help said drugged up relative by pointing out that staying in my home is predicated upon no drugs coming into the home.

I would help said lazy relative by pointing out that staying in my home is predicated on having a paying job and contributing a set amount ($100/month? $200/month) towards the household budget.

I would help said relative by pointing out that staying in my home is predicated on obeying my rules.  And, no, I am neither fair, democratic, nor especially benevolent.  In my house I am a mean-ass dictator and Tier 1 son-of-a-bitch whose giveadamn turns on and off quite easily.

And I would help said relative find the door if he uttered complaint one about all the generous assistance offered above.


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RE: Family Values - 6/14/2008 2:25:56 PM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		I have an aunt that keeps "hooking up with the wrong guys" and then ends up sleeping in her car again.  She'll turn up in our driveways asking for a place to stay.  The last time this happened, I let her sleep in my driveway.  
Most of my family would be SOL.  My brother and his daughters always have a place to stay.  My sister-in-law can sleep in her convertable down by the river.  My wife has forbidden her to set foot in our home and I support her fully in that.  In fact, I informed my brother of that fact just the other day when he was going to bring her up here expecting for a weekend. 

Thats what happens when you mess with the lady of the house.  You don't get to come in the house.

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RE: Family Values - 6/14/2008 2:26:49 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Other than the comments I was going to make, I will interject with this : Calif brings up a very interesting point, can't live with Mom ? sure as hell can't live with me. There are some rare exceptions, but even then with what's been said I would have to say no.

But on the rest of it, you worked for what you have. I think you are pretty much right, the occasional shower, and then back off to the shelter. If he keeps whining to stay with you tell him that if he doesn't stop he will not be coming over at all, and tell him why. You worked hard to bring your house into order, and I don't mean just going to work.

It was around that time in my life I was homeless. Never went to a shelter, lived under a bush. It taught me a lesson. I admit I got some help but I did pull myself up out of the hole and started fresh. I never went to any treatment but I got away from hard drugs and booze. Now it's beer and you know. I can handle it, I can work, that is the most important thing, because it is work or the bush, or under a bridge or something. I don't do too much, I don't go off, I don't piss people off. I treat my job like gold.

In a way I agree, his Mother should not be calling around looking for a place for him to stay. Mothers' loyalty to their kids is paramount, but she is seeing it wrong, she is not seeing that he needs this important life lesson. Forget institutions and bullshit, GET HUNGRY MF ! GET COLD. GET RAINED ON !

Don't even think about those sermons until after that, because until then he will not listen.

T

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RE: Family Values - 6/14/2008 2:31:26 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		i would help.  here is the number to the homeless shelter...    OP i laughed at your "big house".  i had that thrown at me over the winter. it was a guy going thru a divorce who was living with a freind of mine.  i only heat 4 rooms.  the thing is - these things i would be the bad guy no matter what- so lets cut to chase and ill be the bad guy right now.  he said the guy could fix the house up since he isnt working.

before that jenny want to move a budy of hers into my 'big house"

so i do verbally say "i like my own space"

dude - you are the bad guy. the guy could crash at our house for 6 months, and you STILL will be the bad guy.

gets the locations of vcarious charities and relay the info.  thats the extent of it.



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RE: Family Values - 6/14/2008 2:31:33 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		       He's never burned me personally, Full, but he has simply taken advantage of everyone else who has tried to give him a hand up.

     Cali, his stepfather has taken a very firm stand, after much patience and expense.  Putting him out in the storage shed would end the marriage.

      There isn't one rational reason I should offer him anything at this point, if at all, but family traditions aren't always rational.  Or escapable.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: Family Values - 6/14/2008 2:47:30 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		A good meal, a shower, and a RIDE. (if that)

T

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RE: Family Values - 6/14/2008 3:01:56 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		        Nope.  He's not getting off that easy, Termy.  If he eats my food, and uses my hot water, he's going to get preached at a little bit on the road to wherever I drop him.  It might help motivate him to find a different place to shower.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: Family Values - 6/14/2008 3:02:21 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline 		Rich,

Been in a similar situation, and had the question of how far "family obligations" go several other times.

Based on my experience, I've decided that blood isn't what decides what is "my family".

I decide that based on a lot of other issues. This means that I have members of "my family" that are not blood related, and I would (and do) extend to them all the consideration that is normally considered "familial". Likewise, I have blood relations who I have cast out of my life, and I wouldn't give them a ride to the shelter.

Regretfully, I think inviting this man into your home is nothing than continuing to enable his bad behavior and therefore is NOT in his best interest, even if that makes you the pariah and outcast in the rest of your blood relations.

It's a difficult position, but you already know that the only real chance that the man has for a decent life is for him to hit rock-bottom, and make the decision himself that he needs to make changes.

Look at it from this point-of-view: You "help" him by letting him into your house, and the inevitable BS will occur. You will be painted as the asshole, the mean SOB and gather anger and resentment from the other members of your family.

Or you can keep order in your house, and still be painted as the asshole, the mean SOB and gather the anger and resentment of the other members of your family.

The difference is that you will not have all the lying, thieving, and disruption within your own home to go through to get there.

Not a difficult choice, intellectually, is it?

Firm

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RE: Family Values - 6/14/2008 3:15:04 PM   
Level


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Joined: 3/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Based on my experience, I've decided that blood isn't what decides what is "my family".

I decide that based on a lot of other issues. This means that I have members of "my family" that are not blood related, and I would (and do) extend to them all the consideration that is normally considered "familial". Likewise, I have blood relations who I have cast out of my life, and I wouldn't give them a ride to the shelter.

Firm


Exactly.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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RE: Family Values - 6/14/2008 3:16:59 PM   
FullCircle


Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline 		You can chose your friends but you can't chose your family.
They say, stop breaking their rules.

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RE: Family Values - 6/14/2008 3:21:52 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

You can chose your friends but you can't chose your family.



Wrong, wrong, wrong, I say

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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