RE: A/anyone Have Any Vocational Advice?

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TheHeretic -> RE: A/anyone Have Any Vocational Advice? (6/15/2008 7:59:25 AM)
For folks just entering the job market with no real skills, the military is a good option, and the benefits will follow you around for life. Energy is good. Wind farms are booming around here and the companies always seem to be hiring. As the Boomers rot, there will be a need for medical transportation services. Any level of the transportation industry will stay in demand. The composite materials industry is going to get huge in the next 30 years. Older people are going to need to get creative and entrepeneurial to thrive. To survive, call centers and shuttle bus companies will be hiring. Catering and entertainment services for private parties can do very well as side gigs in a crap economy.

Real_Trouble -> RE: A/anyone Have Any Vocational Advice? (6/15/2008 8:28:34 AM)
I'm not a macro guy. I try to avoid predictions about where the economy will go; humans have such a poor track record predicting that it's pretty spectacular. There's really almost nobody who does it well, and what often appears to be correct prediction in retrospect was actually just a lucky guess (if 20,000 people make guesses about the economy, odds are good a few of them will be right!). So I've got nothing for you on specific opportunity, beyond the obvious: Become a doctor, lawyer, or investment banker. With that said, my general view is thus: 1 - Unless you are planning on entering a highly technical trade profession, there is no good reason to skip college, especially as you can get a degree from 2 years at community college and then 2 at a state school very cheaply (in the grand scheme of things). There is simply no advantage to not having a college degree when you can get one that cheaply unless you have a spectacular talent already, or are going into something where a college degree is worthless (the first line of this paragraph). 2 - In general, you will do better doing something you like. However, the trick is to do something you like in a way that will also make money; I consistently advised my theatre friends to make sure they understood the business of running a theatre and all of the support skills necessary, as well as just acting. I advised my art friends to understand supplies, marketing, and sales within the industry, and so on... the point is that you may not be able to get paid to do precisely what you want, but that you might be able to get paid (extremely well, in some cases) to do something related to what you like. 3 - Most good jobs ultimately come out of networking. This is why, as a starting point for the younger ones, college matters. They will meet people, meet recruiters through career offices and presentations, and so on. Make sure to present yourself well to many people. You never know where an opportunity is hiding.

celticlord2112 -> RE: A/anyone Have Any Vocational Advice? (6/15/2008 9:28:09 AM)
quote: I'm looking for general advice on any sector of the economy Y/you feel is expanding and might offer T/them opportunities. Technical jobs of any kind are always in demand--this is true from auto mechanics to computer technicians and system engineers. However, the question is not what economic sector is hot today.....because it will be cold tomorrow. The question your friends should ask themselves is "what makes me valuable?" They need to identify that, articulate it, present it, and leverage it. The man whom people value will never go broke.

philosophy -> RE: A/anyone Have Any Vocational Advice? (6/15/2008 9:40:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 The question your friends should ask themselves is "what makes me valuable?" They need to identify that, articulate it, present it, and leverage it. ....i tend to agree with CL here. i'd also add that education is rarely a bad investment.

JohnSteed1967 -> RE: A/anyone Have Any Vocational Advice? (6/15/2008 9:55:00 AM)
OH, I have Much advise to dispense!! First for young people if you are still in HS I suggest that you go to a state run technical college. You can get almost or a total free ride. If your parents never went to college you can get 100% free ride, GRANTS, GRANTS, GRANTS!! I suggest that you go in under welding, automotive, diesel mech, or land surveying. While I did not do any of these the welding, automotive, or diesel is almost a SLAM DUNK for a job. There is always someone that hires for these positions. As for Land Surveying its usually a one or two class thing and they always need land survey people. Depending on the market its a $50 to $150 dollar an hour gig! Wish I had the time to go back and do it! as for young people fresh out of college, If you haven't gotten computer experience yet, Just go back to college. You will need it. I remember I went in to college under Business Administration, I can't tell you how many businesses have told me, we won't hire you because you have no experiance, but you have a great educational background! My Senior year in College I found a wonderful thing, a computer, and I did a wonderful thing, I learned as much about it as I could on my own with no professor to guide me. Soon I was better than the hired students that they had working in there and that they had given special training too! There is my last advise and perhaps my greatest, Get an A+ Certification, it doesn't mean crap but HR dosn't know that and they love certifications! Get Wirless # certified, Trust me as America is going more and more WIFI if you can be the guy that gets the business man or woman online and productive for their company there is BIG MONEY there. Certified Ethical Hacker, Companies need security, Governments need security and if your the guy that can make them secure then there if INSANE amouts of money there. Once you get all this certification. and you get tired of putting up with the bullhocky of the corporate world, find a vacation community full of rich old people. You can bleed them try and they know nothing about computer except that they depend on them for their stocks and picture of their grand kids

DMFParadox -> RE: A/anyone Have Any Vocational Advice? (6/15/2008 2:31:37 PM)
IT is not like the legal industry in that regard. I'm an independant consultant. I work when I want, how I want, and I am not living on the street. I work 60-ish hours a week, but that's because I kind of enjoy it and I'm a crazy fucking perfectionist, not because I absolutely have to. Because legal industry income depends on reputation, on contacts and/or possibly an expensive marketing campaign (including hiring guys like me), I think it's really much harder to work as an independent lawyer. I may be wrong on this, but that's probably why the major firms can get away with using young lawyers like their b*tches. This is not the case in IT; your income depends more (not completely, but more) on 'things' that you can build and demonstrate to potential clients. In my case, web sites, web applications and SEO. It's a more immediate and visual field, therefore it's easier to be an independent operator. At least, if you're smart. If you're not then you can get trapped in your job just like anywhere else, but it seems to happen less to IT guys. That's my hypothesis, I see a couple holes in it and I'm willing to be corrected, but it seems logical.

chickpea -> RE: A/anyone Have Any Vocational Advice? (6/15/2008 2:40:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Chickpea, "voting democratic?" They said on the News yesterday that Obama is "in favor" of more "outsourcing!!!" CNN that's cuz he's going to outsource the crap jobs and insource the cool ones!

chickpea -> RE: A/anyone Have Any Vocational Advice? (6/15/2008 2:41:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: philosophy quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 The question your friends should ask themselves is "what makes me valuable?" They need to identify that, articulate it, present it, and leverage it. ....i tend to agree with CL here. i'd also add that education is rarely a bad investment. you need a history of success. an education shows drive and a history of at least one accomplishment, enough to get you in the door... whether it goes beyond that depends on whether you want it or you're a fit or not.

Irishknight -> RE: A/anyone Have Any Vocational Advice? (6/15/2008 2:42:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chickpea quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Chickpea, "voting democratic?" They said on the News yesterday that Obama is "in favor" of more "outsourcing!!!" CNN that's cuz he's going to outsource the crap jobs and insource the cool ones! RIIIIIIIGHT. How would he bring back all the good paying jobs? Has he come out with a plan? Outsourcing ANY job at this point is a mistake. The country can't afford much more of it.

popeye1250 -> RE: A/anyone Have Any Vocational Advice? (6/15/2008 2:54:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chickpea quote: ORIGINAL: philosophy quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 The question your friends should ask themselves is "what makes me valuable?" They need to identify that, articulate it, present it, and leverage it. ....i tend to agree with CL here. i'd also add that education is rarely a bad investment. you need a history of success. an education shows drive and a history of at least one accomplishment, enough to get you in the door... whether it goes beyond that depends on whether you want it or you're a fit or not. Chickpea, that used to be the way things were regarding education. But, tell that to hundreds of thousands of IT proffessionals with masters degrees who have been replaced by "H1b" Visa holders from all over the world at a fraction of their former salaries! Go to Home Depot and Starbucks if you want to find them and talk to them personally. Bill Gates testified before a congressional committee about two months ago and said that there should be "no limit" on H1b visas! And they said on the News that many congressmen were "fawning" over him! One thing is for sure. The U.S. cannot keep heading in this same direction and expect anything "good" to come of it! People in breadlines won't be adding to Walmart's bottom line.

thornhappy -> RE: A/anyone Have Any Vocational Advice? (6/15/2008 2:58:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pinksugarsub Disappointed to hear about Obama's comments. What kind of race is this anyway? Perhaps you should read it here. Not really what Popeye said. thornhappy

SugarMyChurro -> RE: A/anyone Have Any Vocational Advice? (6/15/2008 3:06:59 PM)
No, it's not quite as Popeye said but Obama is completely capitulating instead of showing leadership on this issue. We need someone that will put the needs of the people first, over the desires of his own corporate sponsors. We need a candidate that doesn't exist! [8\|]

chickpea -> RE: A/anyone Have Any Vocational Advice? (6/15/2008 3:07:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Irishknight quote: ORIGINAL: chickpea quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Chickpea, "voting democratic?" They said on the News yesterday that Obama is "in favor" of more "outsourcing!!!" CNN that's cuz he's going to outsource the crap jobs and insource the cool ones! RIIIIIIIGHT. How would he bring back all the good paying jobs? Has he come out with a plan? Outsourcing ANY job at this point is a mistake. The country can't afford much more of it. Oh I agree, thanks to Bush's gift of a Trillion Dollar Debt to the American people, America can't afford much more of anything...actually, American can't afford anything for that matter. We are in a rock and a hard place. Obama is not only brilliant, but very aware of the intricacies of a very complicated situation. I don't think that he failed math, and will know that what comes out, must be less than what comes in. I'm sure he'll outsource the fat, and insource the lean protein. Like capitalize on the U.S. strengths like our vast resources of corn, etc..., and let go of our weaknesses (like the minimum wage type of jobs that we are under law must pay higher than other countries for). Considering how organized and well-executed his campaign is, he definitely doesn't seem to be lacking on that front. And he can manage the execution of whatever he has in his mind very well. Sooo VOTE DEMOCRATIC!!!

Slavehandsome -> RE: A/anyone Have Any Vocational Advice? (6/15/2008 3:10:44 PM)
Irish Knight is right about NAFTA. However, my best advice, the two industries that are not only holding well, but actually growing exponentially, are the medical field and law enforcement. As the Baby Boomers get older, in-home care as well as retirement centers are going to boom, and law enforcement, like the military, always gets better and better budgets and only expands. Best of luck to you.

Slavehandsome -> RE: A/anyone Have Any Vocational Advice? (6/15/2008 3:14:15 PM)
Chickpea, I like your ideas, but get the numbers right. Its not a Trillion Dollar Debt, its over 9 Trillion. http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

chickpea -> RE: A/anyone Have Any Vocational Advice? (6/15/2008 3:14:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 quote: ORIGINAL: chickpea quote: ORIGINAL: philosophy quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 The question your friends should ask themselves is "what makes me valuable?" They need to identify that, articulate it, present it, and leverage it. ....i tend to agree with CL here. i'd also add that education is rarely a bad investment. you need a history of success. an education shows drive and a history of at least one accomplishment, enough to get you in the door... whether it goes beyond that depends on whether you want it or you're a fit or not. Chickpea, that used to be the way things were regarding education. But, tell that to hundreds of thousands of IT proffessionals with masters degrees who have been replaced by "H1b" Visa holders from all over the world at a fraction of their former salaries! Go to Home Depot and Starbucks if you want to find them and talk to them personally. Bill Gates testified before a congressional committee about two months ago and said that there should be "no limit" on H1b visas! And they said on the News that many congressmen were "fawning" over him! One thing is for sure. The U.S. cannot keep heading in this same direction and expect anything "good" to come of it! People in breadlines won't be adding to Walmart's bottom line. Ummm yeah, I suppose an education doesn't get you as far as before. guess its timing. But if you won't make your parents go broke, then it's better than nothing. Oh yea, and to all the Obama bashers....he's smart /able, and has the good of the american people in mind. with that combination, you can't go wrong. i'm sure there will be microscopes watching his every move and motive. but overall, after 4 years of Obama, I think the U.S. will be in a better place. VOTE DEMOCRATIC!!!!!!!

DMFParadox -> RE: A/anyone Have Any Vocational Advice? (6/15/2008 3:36:32 PM)
Outsourcing jobs is NOT a bad idea, for the nation as a whole. Money can blind you to the true workings of an economy, which is based on something more intangible: value. By giving 'money' to mexicans, we gain a hell of a lot of bang for our buck. We are bringing in value to America. The idea isn't, 'how do we stop paying mexican instead of U.S. workers?' There is no such thing as a U.S. worker, there are only citizens. We're all workers, in a way. You know what? My field is the most outsourced of all. There are more Indians and Mexicans and Brazillians and Russians claiming to do what I do and charging 5% of what I do for the privelege than I could ever recount. Just go to a site like 'ifreelance.com', you'll see what I mean. It HAS NOT HURT ME, IT HAS HELPED ME. It saves me time to hire them occasionally, I make more money and I do a better job overall, there is more(!) demand for my services because those idiots exist. There's also a lot, and I mean a LOT of web devs complaining about people that use their services, although not very many are stupid enough to think we can effectively make it illegal to hire non-Americans for web work. But I've worked as a merchant marine, too. There are more non-American sailors than there are american ones. Also, as a class they work harder and do a better job than we do. They send maybe half of their paychecks home, spend the rest in local bars and stores. Are we losing money as a nation because we don't have a 100% American Merchant Marine industry? HELL NO! Our ships are profitable as hell. The bars on the coast are doing just fine. If you want to fight the hemhorraging of your jobs to Mexicans, then dammit STOP B*TCHING AND HIRE SOMEONE. Be a small business owner. Take a risk. Prove that you can do a better job than they can. Trim some fat. Damned lazy American...

popeye1250 -> RE: A/anyone Have Any Vocational Advice? (6/15/2008 3:53:45 PM)
Chickpea, one problem there. Obama is not a "Democrat." He's a "global socialist." He's talking about "increasing foreign aid," more immigration, "amnesties" for illegal aliens, getting us involved in "genocides" in Africa and many other things of the same ilk. Obama is running for "president" alright but not for "president" of the U.S.! He wants to be a "world president" whatever the fuck that is! It's as though he has no concept of "Sovereignty." (sp?) Do you think he "cares" about working class or "poor" people in the U.S. who; "retreat to their guns and bibles?" And slavehandsome is right, the debt is now over $9 trillion. If Obama were to get in that amount would balloon to $20 Trillion. Obama is in the wrong political party. He's closer to a Republican than Bush is! All the things Obama is talking about doing will continue to make the rich richer. Any U.S. president should have "allegience" only to the U.S.!

KatyLied -> RE: A/anyone Have Any Vocational Advice? (6/15/2008 4:15:15 PM)
My vocational advice would be to find the top 25 fastest growing occupations for the next 10 years and find one you can live with, either the occupation itself or a skill position in support to that occupation, and go get skilled. here's a linky, I'm sure there are tons available

TheHeretic -> RE: A/anyone Have Any Vocational Advice? (6/15/2008 5:08:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chickpea quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Chickpea, "voting democratic?" They said on the News yesterday that Obama is "in favor" of more "outsourcing!!!" CNN that's cuz he's going to outsource the crap jobs and insource the cool ones! And he's going to do it all, in a week!!! (Anybody who got that reference could consider trying out for game shows to supplement the income)

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