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RE: Is forgiveness a gift? - 6/15/2008 2:57:34 PM   
Racquelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: chickpea
i was talking about real forgiveness not the act of forgiveness.
  Chickpea, honey, darling, sweety-pie...  when we use the term "the act of forgiveness" we don't typically mean "putting on an act".  We are usually speaking of an actual and intentional instance in which forgiveness takes place.  As in: to commit an act of kindness, acting alone, he took action, etc.

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RE: Is forgiveness a gift? - 6/15/2008 4:13:50 PM   
DesFIP


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As long as I don't forgive, I allow the other person to control me. Thoughts of them fill my head, anger and bitterness fills my heart instead of happiness. Honestly, they haven't earned the right to control me. By forgiving them, I have everything they didn't want me to have; friendship, love, contentment.

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RE: Is forgiveness a gift? - 6/15/2008 4:25:16 PM   
completenz


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wow Gwynvyd, thanks so much for starting this thread and thanks to all who have responded.
Powerful, thought provoking stuff
hugs from a thoughtful c x

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RE: Is forgiveness a gift? - 6/15/2008 4:51:26 PM   
Leatherist


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Forgiveness is telling yourself-"The past is dead,and I cannot change it. I must allow myself the bliss of healing."

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RE: Is forgiveness a gift? - 6/15/2008 4:58:31 PM   
SweetNika


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FR: This is something I wrote in my journal a while ago on forgiveness and my own personal situation at the moment.

-To forgive yourself you must obtain self understanding-be real with yourself, your heart. It starts with some very root questions: What are my feelings? My regrets? My hopes? What do I want to change? What am I honestly willing to do to implement change?

-The next step is to move from thinking about self to thinking about others, however; we MUST do so in a positive light. We must have empathy, and understanding for human flaws and imperfection. We must each recognize and acknowledge the hurt others have inflicted then recognize that the hurt, pain, was not directed at you. We must acknowledge and accept that it was simply a product of their own inner turmoil.
 
-The third ingredient needed is accepting the pain that may remain in the wake of asking for it. Forgiveness does not erase the hurt or pain or change the forgived person. Forgiveness, often times involves a dramatic gesture, it is not a mystical transformation that will cure this relationship or make the pain go away. It is an accommodation.
 
Why seek forgiveness then? Why is it so important in order to move on to a healthy and strong relationship? Forgiveness is a way of liberating yourself from the pain, of choosing to let go. I must decide that the positive value of our relationship out weighs the validity of my pain.

True forgiveness, should NOT be held hostage to an apology or to change.

The reality is forgiveness is not an absolute- it in no way absolves anyone one from personal responsibility - however it does allow me to move past that moment.
 
If I only concentrate on my own emotions, my own resentments, anger, and pain and not that of my friend, my partner, my Master what am I? I believe that forgiving, letting go is so hard to do because of our own, my own selfish expectations and assumptions.
 
Does enough time have to pass for a scab to begin forming. Even if a scab does begin to form do I pick at it never letting it heal, in order to remember the pain that was inflicted or do I bandage the wound, forgetting about it, moving on letting it heal naturally.That is the delima that many including myself find myself in.
 
I have come to the conclusion that I have refused to let bandage it and move on letting it heal. I have relized that in doing this I have focused on my pain, I have made things personal that perpahs in all reality where not. Only I can let it go, nothing he does will "make" me do that, I must choose to let it go or to hold on. I must choose pain or love, yesterday or tomorrow.
 
Perhaps this is the first step in letting go, the first step in true forgiveness.
 
Blessed be,
Nika


< Message edited by SweetNika -- 6/15/2008 4:59:19 PM >


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RE: Is forgiveness a gift? - 6/15/2008 5:34:28 PM   
Gwynvyd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dovie

Gwynvyd,

Really tough one, especially on this day. I'm not going to church this morning because the topic will be all about celebrating 'Father's Day." so...here I thought I had done my forgiveness work and healing, and...wowsa!

I agree, forgiveness is a gift to ourselves. The intention is to free your inner spirit, take away power from the other person.
It continues to be a struggle for me, especially on days like today...

Thanks for the topic Gwynvyd...A powerful reminder to stay connected to the good that I am, and the good that surrounds me.

dovie



*smiles* Yeah I was playing hooky today from church too... I just didnt want to sit through it all ya know.. so I skipped it.. and had a wonderful Fathers day with my um. *smiles*

*hugs* I am so glad this thread helps others. I like it when threads do that.

Gwyn

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RE: Is forgiveness a gift? - 6/15/2008 5:57:56 PM   
Gwynvyd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Gwyn

What a wonderful attitude… and reading between the lines I would say you were an Angel to even consider forgiveness…even if it is for you and your well being.

To me there is more than one type of reason for forgiveness. There is the every day struggles of life for instance… social, work, and politics. I don’t forgive transgressions here I either close the person from my life…or battle with them as needed. There is no reason to forgive but nor is there a reason to hold grudges and go out of my way for revenge.

Then there is the deeply person transgressions. I am not as easily forgiving as you. The only way I would even consider forgiving someone that hurt me deeply is if THEY showed me they were truly sorry for the hurt they caused. And were taking personal responsibilities for the consequences for their actions.

Even then… just the fact that something in their make up allowed them to hurt me…I’ll never completely trust them not to do it again.

There are some unforgivable transgressions. Yes you want to get rid of the hate that is burning in you but not forget of forgive… Healing yourself and forgiving them are two different things. 

Butch


*smiles* thanks hun...
Well my childhood has made it easy for me to deal with broken bones when they come.. and the occasional posioning.. Come to find out it takes *a lot* of rat posion to put me under. *chuckles* I can laugh about it now.. but not so much as a child with a tube shoved down my throat.

I have forgiven the abuse, and I do my upmost damnest to never hold a grudge in the first place.. as others have said... but as some one else has said forgiving does not mean you let the person off the hook. It does not mean all is better and you are drinking tea and eating crumpets with them the next week.

I would never trust my sister or brother around my um. No way in Hades. Nor do I go to visit or realy talk to them often. ( if once a year to check in they are damned lucky to hear from me. I have my Auntie pass messages) Forgiving does not mean you have to be around the negative or harmful influance again. It just means you are letting it go.

It has ment a world of difference to me. I was weighed down by both of them for so many years.

If you wait for someone who has done you wrong to take up the yoke of personal responsiblity... you will be waiting till the second comming. *smiles*

~ Funny joke comming from a Hindu/Buddhist.  

Gwyn

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RE: Is forgiveness a gift? - 6/15/2008 6:01:09 PM   
Gwynvyd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan

I think often people confuse forgiving someone that has wronged you with a 'lay down and suck it up' attitude.

My family are patriarchal, financial resources were unlimited in the education of my elder sibling that's male. Whereas I was given a choice of either secretarial or nursing. I learned not to be reliant on others for what I want and need, and I do not blame my parents for their shortcomings given that they parented as they, themselves, were taught - it was a man's world. I've strived to show that it's a world of equal opportunities.

It may take me a while to forgive someone, but I do get there in the end - that doesn't meantosay they are given licence to repeat those wrongs and I truly believe that in by doing so, I am free of the emotional ties and the bitterness that would ensue as a result of maintaining that connection.


*nods* Good for you hun.... that would be very hard for me to personaly suck up... I am very pro equality for both male and female.. and women can do anything.. I would be the next bloody Supreme Court Justice if I came from a family that thought that.

Mine is Matriarical. *smiles*

BTW I love your tag line.. mine just sold his molar for a $2 bill tonight.

Gwyn


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RE: Is forgiveness a gift? - 6/15/2008 11:21:07 PM   
MissMorrigan


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I was bitter for such a long time, I'm not 'holier than thou', that's for sure, and it ate away at me for a long time b/c I wanted a career as a forensic psychologist. One thing I learned, Gwyn is that I can't change other people - I can control what _ I _ do in life. While the forensic psychology route was denied me and I have to admit I loathed them for it for some time, I learned to forgive them and realised that if we want something badly enough we'll make it happen - with or without others' help. I couldn't do the career I wanted, finances dictated otherwise and I had to accept that and now that I am financially 'sound' I'm too bloody old lol

I did the nursing/secretarial route. Found nursing way too emotionally stressful - I get too attached to people and I had issues with the entire system insofar as putting resources first above someone's wellbeing. I'm now beginning a five-year stint as a legal executive and I'm loving every moment of it.

Your little soldier was robbed ! lol

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RE: Is forgiveness a gift? - 6/15/2008 11:39:32 PM   
CalifChick


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

Those who wrong me become nonentities.  They no longer exist in my world.  No hate, no anger, no grudge.  If I am forced to deal with them, I do so in an emotionless fashion and leave no room for them to screw me over again.


This is me.  Someone asked me recently if I forgave my father for the things he did.  And I asked them, "Why would I? He's still trying to emotionally abuse me even now. This is not in the past, this is in the NOW."  So he doesn't exist to me. I don't let him close to me and it doesn't seem to bother him, or at least, not enough to do anything about it.

Cali


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RE: Is forgiveness a gift? - 6/16/2008 8:36:14 AM   
xxblushesxx


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Some quotes you may find useful

Sincere forgiveness isn't colored with expectations that the other person apologize or change. Don't worry whether or not they finally understand you. Love them and release them. Life feeds back truth to people in its own way and time—just like it does for you and me. --Sara Paddison

You will know that forgiveness has begun when you recall those who hurt you and feel the power to wish them well. --Lewis B. Smedes

It is easier to forgive an enemy than to forgive a friend. --William Blake

Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?-- Abraham Lincoln

One forgives to the degree that one loves. --Francois de La Rochefoucauld

Forgiveness is the final form of love. --Reinhold Niebuhr

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RE: Is forgiveness a gift? - 6/16/2008 8:47:32 AM   
kdsub


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Hi Christina... thanks for the quotes.

I think the quotes by William Blake and Lincoln show true insight into human nature.. the others are wishful thinking.

Butch

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RE: Is forgiveness a gift? - 6/16/2008 8:50:24 AM   
xxblushesxx


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It depends on where you are in your heart at the time.
I have been able to do the top two; but not for everyone.
Yet.

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RE: Is forgiveness a gift? - 6/16/2008 9:00:57 AM   
AMaster


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Yes.

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RE: Is forgiveness a gift? - 6/16/2008 10:32:57 AM   
cjan


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To me, it depends on the degree and seriousness of the betrayal and/or damage done. Imo and experience, some things are unforgivable. That is not to say that nursing resentments is in any way healthy. It's not and is self-destructive.

Sometimes, I've found, that revenge is appropriate and I agree with the Klingons that revenge is a dish best served cold.


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RE: Is forgiveness a gift? - 6/16/2008 11:08:55 AM   
sirsholly


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Gwyn, I read the op but none of the responses. I agree that forgiveness is what i do for myself...not for the offending party who doesn't give a dead rats ass if i forgive them or not. My reasons are purely selfish. Anger takes energy and i refuse to give my energy to anger. I simply refuse to do it.

There is only one thing done that i will never ever forgive, because i am human and not designed to forgive the unforgivable. It actually goes against my spiritual beliefs to feel this way, but.....


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RE: Is forgiveness a gift? - 6/16/2008 11:39:37 AM   
slvemike4u


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Yesterday it being Fathers Day i apologised for allowing my toxicity to leak all over this thread...the thread still seems to be going and I am not so worried about leaking..there have been a lot of noble and well meaning post's here extolling the healing power of forgiveness...in most cases I would agree,but it has been my sad experience that there are betrayals that not only don't deserve nor is it healthy to forgive.This is of course my opinion and is not meant to say anyone else's belief system is wrong.it has been said forgiveness and forgetting are two different things....well if You forgive but don't forget where is this grand healing payoff in that...remembering and holding on to is not allways a choice sometimes it is the only option left open to a victim and his best path to healing ,by the simple act of being better than his abuser and breaking the cycle of abuse...which in the long run was all I cared about not forgiving the betrayer...just living up to my responsibility to my own...which I have done and my son will never have to weigh the relative merits of betrayal suffered at the hands of his father....that is all that matters ,my past is buried and not an issue and his future is clear and not clouded by my past

< Message edited by slvemike4u -- 6/16/2008 11:40:32 AM >

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RE: Is forgiveness a gift? - 6/16/2008 7:42:14 PM   
hizgeorgiapeach


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I'm a lil late getting to this - trying to get caught up now that I'm back from my vacation over the weekend.
 
I've always had - and still have - difficulty with the idea of forgiveness.  Especially when it's placed in the context my family always put it in - forgive and forget.  Forgiving soemone else is easy.  Even forgiving myself, acknowledging that I couldn't have changed whatever actions etc that I forgave them for, is relatively easy.  The FORGETTING part, though - now that one's a lil on the tough side. 
 
I've always firmly been of the opinion Forgive + Forget = Relive and Regret!
 
I'll forgive anyone for whatever betrayal of my trust happens.  What I won't do is Forget that they've betrayed me in the past - or give a second opportunity to commit the same act again.

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RE: Is forgiveness a gift? - 6/16/2008 7:56:47 PM   
Gwynvyd


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Thank you sweetie for the quotes.. very useful.

I know there are serious and grevious things that befall us in our lives.. and they are damn hard to forgive.

God knows I have a hard time myself.

I spent a good couple of hours meditating at a lake today on the things I needed to forgive in myself. I am getting there. Slowly but surely. I know I need a purging.. I need to work on it.

I was at work today and in listening to music of course certain songs came up.. and I had a hard time seeing my monitor suddenly. *sighs*

So much changed so suddenly this year it all stacked up.

Gwyn





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RE: Is forgiveness a gift? - 6/16/2008 8:08:21 PM   
xxblushesxx


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It's definitely going to be a journey, Gwyn; but, I bet you'll be someplace wonderful (physically and emotionally) once all is said and done.

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