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RE: I need Structure ! - 6/15/2008 12:05:06 PM   
brattybrandi


Posts: 31
Joined: 7/8/2007
Status: offline 		    Ahhh now you're getting to the point. Been asking myself that to. No direction. No indications. No comitments.
 
    But yet he get's upset at me, why? If he want's more, that's my bitch he should be doing more. IMO ... If he lets me have all this damn freedom I feel lost. Don't know where I belong. Don't know if he really want's to be my Dom. Don't know what's up or down. I'm all fucked up in the head. That's why I posted here to begin with.

(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: I need Structure ! - 6/15/2008 12:05:54 PM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline 		From my view. I totally get needing structure and how hard it is when you are just meandering without direction.
It sounds like you are getting mixed messages from him, the whole 'go ahead and do it but suddenly you did something wrong' thing. As if he is setting you up which is how it would feel if I were in your place.

Needing structure is not the same thing as needing to be micro-managed and neither of those are bad things despite the tone given to them in these forums. It simply is the way you are.

Can you write down your day and add what sort of structure or direction you want?
As an example I have to email him after taking my AM medication because I am always forgetting to do so, which means my day begins with his structure and that sets the tone for my entire day. I asked him to help me with that because I can literally stare at the bottles and think maybe I took them or maybe not, so he set up a system for me.
If there are certain things I have to get done on a particular day he is aware of it the night before and I email or call him with the results. Again I told him that it was a struggle area for me and that I needed him to set the boundaries.

See it is a give and take, R wouldn't be able to simply know what rules I need unless I let him know specifically. It takes trial and error. Above all it takes open communication and a bit of work to get it all going.

Needing boundaries and structure is okay, that is not some freaky flaw inside of you. It doesn't mean you aren't capable of brushing your teeth etc. It simply means that you need the boundaries so you don't karoom around like a pinball.

List the things that you know you need help with. Let him know what sort of help you are seeking and how it feels to be safe in that way.

If you feel like he is setting you up or that he is unwilling to do this then quite honestly I don't see it working between the two of you. If you feel there is the potential for a good balance then work for it.


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(in reply to brattybrandi)
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RE: I need Structure ! - 6/15/2008 12:12:20 PM   
brattybrandi


Posts: 31
Joined: 7/8/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Original : SaraZeal

I probably would see nothing wrong with sending a picture to a friend, a friend I have no intention of it becoming more than friendship - unless I was told it was bad (would provoke a jealousy argument for instance). I've sent tons of pictures to friends online, friends I might never see in person because of distance (and finances not helping). I figure it's just a way of knowing who you're talking to. All said pictures are decent, either a faceshot, or a full body shot, clothed.

I'm very loyal to the one I'm with. I just don't consider sending picture to friends or acquaintances as a deal-breaker, unless I'm explicitly told not to.




I sent the picture because it was innocent enough. There were no ulterior motive's the man wasn't trying to get with me. We were chatting & having laughes. He was just a all around nice guy.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: I need Structure ! - 6/15/2008 12:13:51 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: brattybrandi

If he lets me have all this damn freedom I feel lost. Don't know where I belong. Don't know if he really want's to be my Dom. Don't know what's up or down. I'm all fucked up in the head. That's why I posted here to begin with.

The situation is what's doing it, brandi. I think you want to get some kind of a rise out of him, or at least that's how I would interpret your behavior: provocative. But my point isn't that you're wrong, just that the situation is fucking with your head. I haven't been laying off him because I think he's right, just because he's not here to speak for himself.
 
K.
 

(in reply to brattybrandi)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: I need Structure ! - 6/15/2008 12:16:04 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		This seems like a fairly new relationship to me.  Please correct me if I am wrong about that.

My thoughts, based on what you have written here so far, is that you would thrive under a stricter set of rules and clear direction.  Without that, you feel lost in the relationship.  He, on the other hand, does not want to dominate a submissve in such a way.  This, to me, is clearly a case of compatibility, not a case of who is right and who is wrong.

As a fairly intelligent being myself, I am happiest when my Master keeps me on a "short leash".  Sure, I can go off and make decisions on my own, but doing so becomes a trial and error of whether I am pleasing him or not, and would leave me unsure of what I am doing.  Now, since I have belonged to him for 4 years, I know what pleases him and what doesn't, so my "leash" has a lot more wiggle room than in the beginning.

There is nothing wrong with needing a tight structure and more involvement in your day to day life - nothing at all.  You may hear or read comments about being weak and needing micromanaging, or that you should automatically know this or that.  But the truth is, you thrive with what you thrive with.  When my Master first took ownership of me, he pulled the reigns in very tight, and I never felt more secure in my life, despite comments from the peanut gallery of how weak and pathetic I must be, and how "insecure" my Master must be for micromanaging me so.  The truth is, I needed that to be happiest, and to learn the ins and outs of myself.  Over time the reigns have been let out more and more, and I am fully secure in what his expectations of me are, and I abide by them.

But LA is correct - you can not change someone into something he or she is not.  If you are frustrated now, you will be even more frustrated in the future.  Think carefully about how you want to proceed from here.  Those things that bother you now, if left unchanged (and in your case it seems they will not change), will exponentially bother you even more in the future.  It is not enough to be cared about.  If the relationship as a whole is not creating an environment in which you thrive, it may be worth reconsidering.

I wish you the best.

_____________________________

Good is the enemy of great.

(in reply to brattybrandi)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: I need Structure ! - 6/15/2008 12:40:12 PM   
lally3


Posts: 595
Joined: 3/4/2008
Status: offline 		You obviously wanted to send the other guy your pic because when your Dom said, "yes if you want to," you promptly did. 
 
if a guy i liked said 'yes if you want to' in response to a kind of testing question about how much he gave a shit, id send the freaking picture with bells on.  this guy isnt giving her any sort of anything right now.

and then he freaks! - which says alot.  OP, in a way that was a testing question to him, his psychology was 'shrug...'yes if you want to' what he should have said was NO, that was what you wanted him to say and maybe he felt manipulated by you or maybe he was testing you, either way you both ignored the issue of what both of you wanted.  you would have much preferred him to say no.  so you should have said something then, he would have much preferred that you didnt need to send the picture atall.

bottom line though is that you guys just arent communicating clearly to each other.  maybe he has issues of infidelity from previous partners, who knows, people have baggage.

i see where youre coming from, but youre not exactly giving him a secure base to work from.

whatever it is, D/s, vanilla, trust is all, everything....


< Message edited by lally3 -- 6/15/2008 12:49:25 PM >

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: I need Structure ! - 6/15/2008 12:44:06 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		Sending a vanilla picture is an issue for some and not for others.  She was given permission to send it and later reprimanded for it.  I don't think the picture is the issue here, actually.

I've sent vanilla pictures to people I've talked to online.  My Master doesn't mind that, as long as they are totally platonic photos.  In the beginning of our relationship I would tell him so-n-so asked for a picture of me, may I send one?  He would ask why I wanted to.  If he found my answer acceptable, he would allow it.  Now I do not need to ask, as he trusts my judgment and I trust my instincts.

Still, the photo is not the issue here.  It is one symptom (of many) of a much larger problem.  The issue with getting bogged down in symptoms is the overall problem is never addressed.

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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: I need Structure ! - 6/15/2008 1:22:28 PM   
chickpea


Posts: 446
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: Los Angeles Area
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: brattybrandi
   
    I've told him in plain English what it is I need. I need him to take control. Use his Authority that I've given him.

I feel as if I'm screaming from the inside out.. "Tell me what to do.. Please!!!", " Guide me". I just want to make him happy. I'm tired of feeling like I'm failing.
     Ok that's the end of the rant. Now I would like opinions. Why can't he just take the upper hand. And why must I feel like I'm a failure with all this freedom.


This has trainwreck written all over it.  I think a submissive needs to know what she wants...short and long term, unlike popular belief...unless its just play.... or the Dom will just give the submissive what HE wants, which may or may not be good for the submissive and may cause damage to her years down the line.  And the submissive needs to to beable to trust the dom in its execution by the Dom continually providing a supportive trusting reassuring inspirational environment to survive long after the initial benefit-of-the-doubt trust was given (the gift of submission..initially at least) to the Dom has worn off.  If the dom can't come up with, create, and sustain that environment for the sub (especially if he can't communicate) the sub can't trust. 

So the dom needs to put some effort into communication if this has any chance of survival. 
You need to figure out what goals (that you have control over) that you want for yourself, short and long term and focus less on things about him which only he can change.

My personal opinion of guys that give their subs too much freedom is: (1) they're either way too trusting, have no trust issues (2) don't like to control or micromanage (3) don't have a plan or overall vision for the relationship.  Whether this is out of lack of effort (he's not that into you), or lack of his natural qualities (he's not a lifestyle Dom), won't take away from the fact that you like and care about him whether you choose to leave him or not. 
My personal opinion of many submissives that enter the lifestyle is that submission is a way to give up responsibility and their brain (basically a way to escape and not learn to deal with stresses).  If you want a trainwreck, yes that's exactly how to go about it.  Harsh words now are better than harsh realities later.  Good luck.

< Message edited by chickpea -- 6/15/2008 1:34:03 PM >

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(in reply to brattybrandi)
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RE: I need Structure ! - 6/15/2008 1:31:46 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lally3

You obviously wanted to send the other guy your pic because when your Dom said, "yes if you want to," you promptly did.
 
if a guy i liked said 'yes if you want to' in response to a kind of testing question about how much he gave a shit, id send the freaking picture with bells on.

Ha! Well it sounds like he might get the message, from you! And actually, I kinda thought that might be what she did too, though I don't think she sees it, or in any case how provocative it is. But then, I don't think the guy saw her question as a test for him either, I think he saw his response as a test for her. And she could have said, "no, I don't really want to." But they're just running on different tracks here -- zoom, right by each other.

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 6/15/2008 1:32:03 PM >

(in reply to lally3)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: I need Structure ! - 6/15/2008 2:28:50 PM   
pinksugarsub


Posts: 1224
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: brattybrandi

   
    This is kinda gonna be a rant with a question at the end.  I've put myself into a situation with a man, a Dom, who I know cares deeply for me, who wants to be my Dom. He has stated so several times. 
 
Congratulations!

   Now here is the problem, I don't think he understands the dynamics I need. The type of submissive that I am.  He gives me a ton of freedom. Freedom to do as I please, what I please, anytime I please. But then he then gets angry and upset with me when I do something he doesn't necessarily like, mostly revolving around jealousy issues. I give him the power to tell me what he wants. But he doesn't take advantage. I've told him I will respect what he say's. He say's "do whatever you want".

Uh oh.  The Dom wants His mind read and He's got 'jealousy issues'?  This would give me pause.

    I've told him in plain English what it is I need. I need him to take control. Use his Authority that I've given him. Say No if he means No. Yes if he means Yes. I want to have guidelines. I need to have rules. Without them I'm wandering around aimlessly, destined to fail him and upset him. Because I'm not a mind reader & I get confused.

O, now, c'mon...i'm sure you managed to run yr life quite well before you started dating Him.

     I'm a very intelligent woman. But when it comes to interpreting other peoples thoughts, when they don't say anything, it get's me into trouble.

i hear ya there; i'm never good at dealing with passive-aggressive types.

    I am feeling like a part of something dire is missing in my life. I don't feel like me without the structure I need. It's very unsettling. I feel as if I'm screaming from the inside out.. "Tell me what to do.. Please!!!", " Guide me". I just want to make him happy. I'm tired of feeling like I'm failing.

Give some thought to whether He makes you happy, too -- don't forget, that's what brought you to D/s -- an effort to get yr wants/needs met.

     Ok that's the end of the rant. Now I would like opinions. Why can't he just take the upper hand. And why must I feel like I'm a failure with all this freedom.

i don't see anything in what you've written that indicates yr failing in any way.  If He's jealous -- that His issue, not yrs.  If He isn't pleased but didn't tell you how to please Him -- again, it's His issue.

But maybe i'm being too hard on Him.  Only you can judge.
 
Best wishes.

pinksugarsub


< Message edited by pinksugarsub -- 6/15/2008 2:30:59 PM >

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RE: I need Structure ! - 6/15/2008 2:43:53 PM   
angelwithhonor


Posts: 193
Joined: 5/16/2007
Status: offline 		..i just had to say something here. brandi, i know actually what you are saying. and i have to say i was saying the same thing. till i was blue in my face. He was new to the lifestyle and i tried to lead Him. but if you have to keep repeating i need i need. for me its loosing something. i neeeeeed lots of structure, guidance and everything else. especially the control. i am still with this guy, but dont know how long. i need the lifestyle and He lead me wrong. but that isnt why i must go. He isnt being what i need , as much as i care for Him. its partly my fought, i jumped so quickly to Him. i know who i am and what i want in a relationship.He is Dominant, but there is so much more that a Dom has to have in His heart as well as the sub/slave. excepting His collar was not a responsible on my part.i care for Him but He has alot more issues that He cant even begin to take control when His own life isnt... so good luck and hope He finally listens to You...peace

(in reply to pinksugarsub)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: I need Structure ! - 6/15/2008 2:52:54 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		This issue has nothing to do with a picture or permission or not being controlled enough.  This is you wanting him to get all possessive and him getting all insecure.

What is it that you really want?  I'm getting serious vibes that you are not at all secure with who you are and where you want to be and are hoping this guy will just take the reins and make it all better.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: I need Structure ! - 6/15/2008 3:20:40 PM   
brattybrandi


Posts: 31
Joined: 7/8/2007
Status: offline 		     I am very secure in who I am & what I want.. I'm not looking for that white knite to swoop down and carry me off into the sunset. I would very much like the man who I care a great deal for to show me that he cares also, because honestly I'm not getting it.
 
    He can tell me he loves me & spend time talking on the phone with me. If only he could be more decisive in how wants to Dom me, that would be greatly appreciated.
 
   The picture & permission ordeal is just one of several things that really confuse me. If it were a test, I failed this one. But when he tells me it's ok that were so far apart for me to play with others to get my masochistic fix and I say NO I don't want another man's hands on me, I can wait. He say's but it's ok you can. I still say no. So I fail with the harmless picture test. But where it really counts I've held true.
 
    Where I want to be is in a loving secure relationship, where jealousy isn't an issue. I have never lied to him & I don't hide things from him. I'm upfront & honest with him. I have not changed who I am since we got involved, other than I'm much more attached to him now.
 

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: I need Structure ! - 6/15/2008 3:59:38 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Actually Brandi, you aren't the problem entirely. He is responsible for fully half of it. He tells you to do whatever you want, and when you do so he gets upset. That's wrong on his part. He gave you permission and then tries to guilt you afterwards. He needs to stop that and now.

The appropriate thing for him to do is not blow up at you but instead say "You know, I find I can't feel comfortable with you going out for drinks with friends Friday night. Movies okay, girl nights at a friend's house, also fine. But not clubbing or singles bars." He needs to state what he does and doesn't like, even if he needs to discover it by it happening. But he needs to control his emotions because if he isn't in control of himself, then how can you turn control over to him?

The part that is your responsibility is not in saying "I need more control" which is too amorphous. But you need to say "When you tell me to do whatever I want, and then you get angry at me for doing just that, I feel that I can't trust you. I need you to either live up to your word by allowing to do as I feel best without using it as an excuse to blow up at me or else to give me rules, but the way it's going now I feel that it is impossible to ever please you, and that you are setting me up to fail. Is that your intention?"

He may never dom you the way the guy in your fantasies does, but that's okay. What isn't okay is for him to give you permission for anything, refuse to give you concrete rules, and then blow up at you for doing what he said you could.

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(in reply to brattybrandi)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: I need Structure ! - 6/15/2008 4:24:11 PM   
suzybeth


Posts: 236
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: NC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: brattybrandi

I asked for his permission, not because I wanted the permission per say... I wanted him to be informed. 

You say you didn't ask for his permission because you wanted to send the guy your pic. That's really quite amusing. Are you selling any? You obviously wanted to send the other guy your pic because when your Dom said, "yes if you want to," you promptly did.
 
Why, is anybody's guess.
 
K.
 

sorry brandi, but I have to agree with Kirata's post, it states it precisely to the point of the entire situation

_____________________________

quote:

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quote:

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quote:

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(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: I need Structure ! - 6/15/2008 4:32:14 PM   
lronitulstahp


Posts: 5392
Joined: 10/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

 I need Structure !  

it's in my DNA....


get it?????

edited to add....sometimes i've felt too "free" as well...but one Masterly type told me it was His will to determine the relationship dynamic.  That my constant requests for more, and my questions regarding when He was going to "really start ", were more symptomatic of me being programmed to think a certain "thing" or style of D/s was more twue than what we shared.  i actually realized that up until that point, i wasn't submissive to Him, i was submissive to a preconceived role, or feeling.  It was then, that i was able to let go and be free in our relationship, and free from prior relationships.  And then... boy howdy, did he ever get into my head!!!!

< Message edited by lronitulstahp -- 6/15/2008 4:42:59 PM >

(in reply to brattybrandi)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: I need Structure ! - 6/15/2008 4:40:32 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		I was like that guy when I first began. I'm thinking he is still very new, and needs to really sit down and think about where he wants to go with this girl. At the heart of it all, a Dom needs to know his core and direction. And he needs to have drive and ambition.
 
 It's a bit like an old sailing ship.
 
The core was the intergrity of the vessel itself. The structure of the ship had to keep it afloat, be able to carry it's load-and be able to be steered and powered. It also had to be strong enough to weather storms. Which meant a degree of built in coping ability to deal with stress and strain-flexibility to take blows and spring back without breaking.
 
 It still needed force to drive it-I think of the winds akin to that-the drive to GO somewhere in life. And how you discipline yourself as the rudder-or you will just wander aimlessly in circles.
 
 Then I think of a sub, a partner who helps out on the journey. She is offered a place on the crew. To work well, she needs to know the routines-and be able to accept the consequences of not paying attention. (If you don't duck when the boom swings during a tack, you are going to get your ass knocked overboard. Arguing with the boom accomplishes very little,it does not care.) During a storm, you know to batten down the hatches-so that the waves don't swamp the boat.
 
 None of these things are instinctual, they must be taught and learned. The pilot and crew know thier places, and they do thier parts. If not, disaster. If you sit becalmed with no drive-you will die. If you run during the storm, you will die. It must be faced and weathered through. If the boat succumbs to rot from poor maintanence, you will die. And if the rudder breaks, you will not reach port.
 
Integrity.
 
Direction.
 
Communication.
 
Knowing your place.
 
Doing your part.
 
These are the basics, ignore them at your peril.

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(in reply to brattybrandi)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: I need Structure ! - 6/15/2008 4:43:49 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

He can tell me he loves me & spend time talking on the phone with me. If only he could be more decisive in how wants to Dom me, that would be greatly appreciated.

I realize I'm repeating myself here, but brandi,

TALK TO HIM

Start by telling him what you just said here.  Verbatim.  Tell him you need better communication from him.

Repeatedly pissing and moaning in a thread about it is not going to move you one picometer closer to what you want.....whatever that is.




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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: I need Structure ! - 6/15/2008 6:02:57 PM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		he could actually be very lazy and not want to impose structure because that would mean he would have to actually check to see that his directives are being followed.

or he may not actually know what he wants - and this would mean he is very new in the lifestyle.

or he may not be a dom at all, and just wants sex in a kinky way, and is very confused about the request for structure.

or.....................................

anyhoo, he isn't meeting your needs. If you are stating them very clearly and he isn't hearing , he isn't right for you. You may like and love him, but he isn't doing it for you. Maybe he should just  be a fuckbuddy, or a plutonic friend, and find yourself a dom that is more in line with what you need and want.  In the long run, you need to be happy in the complete relationship.

(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: I need Structure ! - 6/15/2008 6:28:51 PM   
NeedingMore220


Posts: 615
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: brattybrandi

     I am very secure in who I am & what I want.. I'm not looking for that white knite to swoop down and carry me off into the sunset. I would very much like the man who I care a great deal for to show me that he cares also, because honestly I'm not getting it.
 
    He can tell me he loves me & spend time talking on the phone with me. If only he could be more decisive in how wants to Dom me, that would be greatly appreciated.
 
   The picture & permission ordeal is just one of several things that really confuse me. If it were a test, I failed this one. But when he tells me it's ok that were so far apart for me to play with others to get my masochistic fix and I say NO I don't want another man's hands on me, I can wait. He say's but it's ok you can. I still say no. So I fail with the harmless picture test. But where it really counts I've held true.
 
    Where I want to be is in a loving secure relationship, where jealousy isn't an issue. I have never lied to him & I don't hide things from him. I'm upfront & honest with him. I have not changed who I am since we got involved, other than I'm much more attached to him now.
 


It sounds like an issue of compatability.  You want one thing, a close, secure relationship with one Dom ... he wants to let you be with others because of your distance.  That, to me, is a big enough issue to seriously question whether you wish to be with this man, if he is the one for you, and you are the one for him.  It's not about the picture or the other stuff ...

(in reply to brattybrandi)
Profile   Post #: 60
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