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RE: I need Structure ! - 6/15/2008 9:59:48 PM   
Midnght


Posts: 98
Joined: 4/24/2008
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		I understand how you feel brandy. I also understand his side of things.

I'm rather like him.

See it's a couple of different thoughts here.

You want him to run your life so to speak. For him to tell you what to do how to do it etc.
He wants you to know what he needs, when he needs it and how he needs it. You shoudl have som ideas by now. He shouldn't need to tell you every little thing.

But there's still room for equal footing.

I'd suggest this book to pass to him and you both work on it together. Not everything in this book may be to your needs but look at it form the right perspective this is one Masters book of how to be his slave for his slave. Modify it's words to suit your desires and goals.
You both seem like you just need to get to the same page and realize it can be worked out with minimal effort.

Protocols
A Handbook for the Female Slave
by Robert J. Rubel, PhD SKU: BK-PROTOC This is a buffet of experiences. Pick the ones that suit you and your family. Modify, revamp and use this enlightening treatise into one family's structure to create your own. The handbook is transformational, and I highly recommend it to novices as well as those seasoned in the art of power exchange.
172 pages.

Even if you just red it and say draw up a how to pleas emy master list this will give you structre and you can't not know hat he wants.




(in reply to brattybrandi)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: I need Structure ! - 6/15/2008 11:18:18 PM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		Maybe he just isn't the Dom for you. Maybe his style is laid back and loose. Perhaps you  need someone who is much stricter and will put protocols in place that you will submit too or be shown the door.

Tell him what you've told us and if he cannot seem to fulfill your needs then its time to move on.

Good luck,
~Lashra


_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






(in reply to brattybrandi)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: I need Structure ! - 6/16/2008 3:45:48 AM   
freija


Posts: 1
Joined: 5/29/2008
Status: offline 		celticlord2112's tag line :: If you put a small value upon yourself, the world will not raise your price

I love that. It is so very true.


freija
"Love must be as much a light as it is a flame."

- Henry David Thoreau



(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: I need Structure ! - 6/16/2008 4:47:29 AM   
katie978


Posts: 352
Joined: 7/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: brattybrandi
 
We had a great connection. Chemistry & everything is right.
 
     Because we live so far apart. He tells me he doesn't want to be selfish, he has allowed me to do as I please while we are apart. 
  
    


  The way I read this seems like you guys aren't really quite in a relationship. Like, you're really great friends with good chemistry who aren't committed because you live so far away. If he's allowing you to do as you please while you're apart, does that include dating or seeing other men? Then does he get jealous of said men?

  If you're in a relationship and he just hasn't imposed any boundaries on you, it may be because he doesn't feel comfortable making rules he can't be sure you're following. It may also be because he just doesn't have any rules, it's his style. If you've clearly discussed this with him and he hasn't gotten any stricter, I guess it's time for you to make a decision. I think the chance is good that if he's not strict now, he'll never be.

  As far as the specific situation, it's my experience that interactions on chatting sites with men online are almost never platonic. Men who want to see your photo never "just wanna know what ur face looks liek". If your dom has jealousy issues, I imagine he's only jealous of your interactions with other men online. This is a really easy issue to avoid...incredibly easy. The fact that you continue to test him in this matter suggests that you're either not really committed to the relationship (unless you don't actually have a relationship) or you're trying you be bratty to get some limits placed on you after all.


_____________________________



"That's the plan. Rule the world. You and me. Anyday ::wink::"



(in reply to brattybrandi)
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RE: I need Structure ! - 6/16/2008 6:01:09 AM   
Puppy4goodHome


Posts: 1448
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: Beachwood Ohio and a few others
Status: offline 		I was just thinking this and i agree with juliet here on this

quote:

ORIGINAL: julietsierra

I'd say he wants YOU to submit. He wants you to CHOOSE to put his wishes first. If you just want him happy, put what you know about him ahead of your ideas of what you want to do and act accordingly. If the things he gets upset about revolve around jealousy issues, then I'd suggest that you don't put yourself in those situations.

I'm thinking he's going to give you all the freedom you need to brat yourself (referring to your name as a possible reference regarding how you approach relationships) into no relationship.. or choose to stop that behavior and move forward in your submission to him.

This isn't rocket science.

juliet


_____________________________

Pup on the loose better watch out

ross.g
Puppster
puppy

(in reply to julietsierra)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: I need Structure ! - 6/16/2008 7:45:20 AM   
Quin


Posts: 37
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: brattybrandi


Thank you.....
 
      For you're background information. Him & I started speaking to one another the end of December begining of January this year, had grown very close as friends first. The begining March he wanted to meet face to face, I wasn't ready yet. He lives quite away's away from me. And the trust wasn't there nor were the deep feeling's for me to take that step. By the end of April things had changed. I booked a flight went to visit him. We had a great connection. Chemistry & everything is right.
 
     Because we live so far apart. He tells me he doesn't want to be selfish, he has allowed me to do as I please while we are apart.
 
    There was an instance where i sent a email with a picture to another man. Long before those deep feelings were there. He saw the email. Became very upset, I explained to him the time frame gap, and that I no longer did that.
The thing that prompted me to start this thread is something that happened yesterday.
 
    I play games on a online gaming site, so does he we play there often together. There was a man whom I was playing. We were playing & chatting for quite some time. FYI .. my profile on this gaming site reflects that I'm involved with someone him specificaly. I make that known to men. After about an hour or so of chatting & playing this guy asked to see a photo of me. I immediately told him no & that i needed to get permission first.
 
    I then told asked for permission, wanting to avoid any trouble in the near future. He said "yes if you want to"..... I sent a picture, a very clean normal picture like what's on my profile here. Later that evening i was accused of wanting this new man to Dom me. And lying about my intentions with him.
 
    This is where I get upset. If he didn't want me to send the picture. He should have said No. If he was feeling insecure about me playing with this man he could have told me that he didn't like that also. But he didn't say anything. I'm not a mind reader & yes sometimes I'm niave.
 
     I will not play with this man again. Because it resulted in a 2 plus hour argument last night and me trying to defend myself. 
 

 


OK, this adds a little more clarity to the situation.  He definitely deserves some of the blame, IMO. One cannot tell a bottom "do as you wish" and then get mad when she does.

The situation between the two of you is very similar to that of me and my girl. She lives in NYC while I live 400+ miles away in Buffalo. I have/had my own fidelity issues (I caught my ex-wife in bed with someone else...the problem wasn't so much the act as the fact that she lied to me about it and did it all behind my back).
Since we live so far apart, and are unable to fulfill each others (more carnal) needs, we agreed that we were both free to see other people. The stipulation to this, in order for me to deal with my issues, was that of TOTAL disclosure...meaning, after being with someone, we are expected to tell the other every little detail about everything that happened. This actually adds a whole new eroticism to things, because we usually get off on hearing each others escapades.

Without expectations or any kind of direction, IMO, there should have never been an arguement. One of the 11 principles of leadership the army lists is "seek responsibility and take responsibility for your actions (or inactions)". He's failed here. Instead of a 2+ hour arguement, he should have said "This is what I would prefer you had done". Having only known each other for 5 1/2 months and only seriously for 1 1/2 and primarily on-line, there isn't too much that you can know about him, relationship-wise...that will just take time and requires LOTS of communication on both sides.

A suggestion, that I used to help structure some things for my girl, also, was that I required her to email me every Thursday with a list of things that she needed to accomplish on the coming weekend. I then scheduled out her time as to what had to be done and when. This gave her some much needed structure and helped me feel a sense of control and helped me develop trust.

At this point, all you can do is request things from him. You can't force him. You can share ideas from this thread with him. If you do something that angers him, don't get defensive. Express to him that he said you could do what you want and that, if you've somehow displeased him, you need him to explain what, exactly, displeased him, so that you can avoid making the same mistake in the future. If he continues to just tell you that you're free to do whatever you want, and then get angry and yell and argue with you, then I would suggest moving on to someone new (I've known too many people who think "dominant" means yelling at the sub. No matter what the sub does, the person feigns anger and yells at her or uses it as an excuse to punish her. He can't see flogging/spanking/whipping as anything but punishment, so he has to "find" reasons to correct her...even if he really doesn't care either way).

Good luck and I hope things work out for you. 

_____________________________

"It's my job as a Master to teach you how to serve me.
It's my job as a sadist to completely screw that up."
~FifthAngel~

(in reply to brattybrandi)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: I need Structure ! - 6/16/2008 7:52:42 AM   
MasterHermes


Posts: 136
Joined: 5/23/2008
Status: offline 		brandi, I do not think you want your life to be micromanaged by him. You want to get clear signals. You want yes mean Yes and no means No. This is a very understandable need although you should realize failure in this area is not a D/s issue. Somebody may not be an effective Dom while giving out mixed signals but he can not be a good husband, or father, or teacher or business manager either if they act confusing. The situation you described is not rare. This happens when people have insecurities about themselves or their relations or their partner. It might mean 1. I am not sure if I am worthy of this and I want you to show me I am by acting the way I expect you to do. 2. I am not sure about this relationship and I need you to show me we have a relationship by your actions. 3. I am not sure if you can be loyal to me and I want you to prove it.

Of course, unless he is with somebody who can always think exactly like him, his insecurities will always be justified. Sooner or later he will say I knew I wasn't worthy, or I knew she was not loyal etc... I can not say a close distance relationship would completely solve this problem, but I can say a long distance one definitely makes everything more difficult. There are couple things you can do. 1. Of course you can end the relationship at this point. 2. You can keep acting your best without trying to guess what he is hiding in his mind. If your actions satisfy his expectations great otherwise he would be convinced you are not the woman created for him and relationship would end. 3. You can try guessing whats in his mind and try acting accordingly, and hope this phase will end one day. If you can guess correct he would be convinced you are the woman for him and hopefully start building trust.

It is my observation that submissive who are used to being in structured relationships are making more mistakes when they can not find a clear communication in their next relationship. It usually is not their bad intention but due to panic they feel and fear of making mistakes lead them to that end. You are not in an easy situation but I hope it works out best for both of you.

Good Luck
Hermes

(in reply to Puppy4goodHome)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: I need Structure ! - 6/16/2008 8:18:29 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		You have gotten some very good advice here, some of which mirrors what I am about to add.

I think there are a lot of things going on that overlap.

They guy isn't overly experienced - been there, done that!  He is trying to not be a control freak and yet wanting some control and being unable/unwilling/unskilled in how to ask/state it.   Saying "do whatever you want" but then freaking out when you do isn't good.  I still do that sometimes, I tell BSB to "call me later" and I mean later that hour and she thinks later that day.  Again, the classic, lips are moving but no actual communication is occurring.

Also, for ME, while I get off on ordering someone to do something, some things I NEED to be volunteered or they either mean less or even can be meaningless if I order them.  Now, the trick is to find a place where you can explain the need (so it isn't a hidden expectation) AND give them enough time and room so they can bring that back and GIVE it to you.

Now these the concept of saying "call me later" and what it could mean and the need thing are intertwined, at least for me.  I might think "okay, she can come back to me in an hour or a day" and she is thinking "I should give it a week or a month" and so even thought she WANTS to give it to me, I feel slighted because I don't get it when I THINK she should be doing it.

So in this case, the guy doesn't have the communication skills or the experience to say what he wants.  He is hoping/looking for his remark of "do whatever you want" to convey to you "if you want me you won't do this" rather than how you are hearing it which seems to be "I can act single" and that is why he is blowing up.  He shouldn't be blowing up and it isn't your fault but you also know he tends to be jealous and continue doing things that evoke it.

Now, rather than looking at ANY of this as failure on some one's part, look at this as suddenly revealing the opportunity to work together to become a better people and a stronger couple.  What I strive to do is "fix" my part in an issue and "support" my partner in fixing hers.  Saying "you fucked up this part and need to man/woman up and fix it" rarely works.  It is the difference between saying "you should" and "this would deepen my submission"...

(in reply to MasterHermes)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: I need Structure ! - 6/16/2008 9:18:41 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		I see a lot of people saying that you need to just submit, be patient, maybe your styles are not compatible, ect.. Here is a different take, have you considered that he might want to be your dom, but maybe he isn't dominant?  Maybe it interests him but he doesn't have an idea of how to make that happen.  Not everyone is meant to do this.  It is not an underlying personality quirk that people can suddenly latch onto and just BE.  I can pluck out a few tunes on a keyboard but I am not a musician.  For that matter are you sure you want to submit? 
Kyst

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


(in reply to brattybrandi)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: I need Structure ! - 6/16/2008 9:23:15 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

Now, rather than looking at ANY of this as failure on some one's part, look at this as suddenly revealing the opportunity to work together to become a better people and a stronger couple. What I strive to do is "fix" my part in an issue and "support" my partner in fixing hers. Saying "you fucked up this part and need to man/woman up and fix it" rarely works. It is the difference between saying "you should" and "this would deepen my submission"...

I can't add anything to this.  It just needs to be repeated....a lot.


_____________________________



(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: I need Structure ! - 6/16/2008 10:34:40 AM   
MistressDolly


Posts: 917
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: brattybrandi



Now here is the problem, I don't think he understands the dynamics I need. The type of submissive that I am.  He gives me a ton of freedom. Freedom to do as I please, what I please, anytime I please. But then he then gets angry and upset with me when I do something he doesn't necessarily like, mostly revolving around jealousy issues. I give him the power to tell me what he wants. But he doesn't take advantage. I've told him I will respect what he say's. He say's "do whatever you want".

    I've told him in plain English what it is I need. I need him to take control. Use his Authority that I've given him. Say No if he means No. Yes if he means Yes. I want to have guidelines. I need to have rules. Without them I'm wandering around aimlessly, destined to fail him and upset him. Because I'm not a mind reader & I get confused.
    


Structure is crucial and is the keystone of dominance.


< Message edited by MistressDolly -- 6/16/2008 10:35:47 AM >

_____________________________

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m y s p a c e


(in reply to brattybrandi)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: I need Structure ! - 6/16/2008 11:26:44 AM   
brattybrandi


Posts: 31
Joined: 7/8/2007
Status: offline 		Thank you all so much for you opinions & advice. It has helped me gather my thoughts and wrap my mind around a lot of different things.
 
 
Brandi

(in reply to MistressDolly)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: I need Structure ! - 6/16/2008 12:30:26 PM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline 		How is a man (supposedly a Dominant one) aka a LEADER showing that by saying things like:

"do what you want"
"if you want"
and
"ok, if you want to"

two words for ya..

lazy man
doesn't care
is immature
is insecure
look elsewhere

Structure is not what you need.  Maybe better ability to choose someone who claims to be dominant yet doesn't actually say (or do) anything domineering.  He sounds like a dull shmuck to me.

(in reply to brattybrandi)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: I need Structure ! - 6/16/2008 1:14:29 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		came4U, I've got a better term for him. Passive aggressive.

Brandi, being so far apart allows you to see him as the partner of your dream and not as the person he is. The stuff he says hits your buttons sufficiently that you're blinding yourself to the reality of what he's like.

The only thing you have to decide is if you're enjoying talking to him, or feel worse afterwards. Because anybody who keeps making you feel bad is not somebody who is good for you. You deserve to have your needs met which include being with someone who knows what he wants and doesn't pout because you aren't a mind reader.

Since he blew such a gasket over a nilla picture to a gaming partner, imagine his response if you called him up and said you took him up on his offer for you to play with others. Think he'd be fine with it, even though he keeps pushing you to do so? I think he's looking for someone to take his anger at out on, and by giving you contradictory information, he is making sure that he'll always have someone to rage at. If you enjoy this, stay with him. Otherwise, maybe the gamer friend is the better bet, because with him there isn't any expectations, just the possibility of a friendship that might grow into more.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


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RE: I need Structure ! - 6/16/2008 2:00:08 PM   
daddysliloneds


Posts: 1351
Joined: 6/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: brattybrandi    
   Now here is the problem, I don't think he understands the dynamics I need. I give him the power to tell me what he wants. But he doesn't take advantage. I've told him I will respect what he say's. He say's "do whatever you want". <snip>

<snip>  I've told him in plain English what it is I need. I need him to take control. Use his Authority that I've given him. Say No if he means No. Yes if he means Yes. I want to have guidelines. I need to have rules. Without them I'm wandering around aimlessly, destined to fail him and upset him<snip>
when it comes to interpreting other peoples thoughts, when they don't say anything, it get's me into trouble.
    I am feeling like a part of something dire is missing in my life. I don't feel like me without the structure I need. It's very unsettling. I feel as if I'm screaming from the inside out.. "Tell me what to do.. Please!!!", " Guide me". I just want to make him happy. I'm tired of feeling like I'm failing.
     Ok that's the end of the rant. Now I would like opinions. Why can't he just take the upper hand. And why must I feel like I'm a failure with all this freedom.

 
doesn't sound like he wants the upper hand to me, so i wonder why you allow him to punish you?  i only say that based on the  'if they don't say anything it gets me into trouble' comment.

other than that, all i have to say in the matter is that you need something he {can't/doesn't want} to give you, so i wonder why you're both sticking around.

(in reply to brattybrandi)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: I need Structure ! - 6/16/2008 11:34:04 PM   
MasterZen22


Posts: 72
Joined: 11/16/2006
Status: offline 		Brandy I do not have enough information on you 2 to to know if you're a good fit, only you can know that. But try this:

try talking to him in very specific terms. Instead of telling him in vague terms that "you want structure." Try to think about what likes and come up of a rule to govern your behavior that would make him happy. Then suggest that specific rule for him to consider imposing on you. If he approves, then he might get the idea and he'd be better able to understand what you want.

All women are different, and he might just be waiting to see exactly what kind of submissive you are. (after all in our modern , politically correct environment, sometimes it's hard for men to believe that a woman really does want a man to dominate her)

IMO, the key to communicating with men is to be as specific as possible.

-Zen

< Message edited by MasterZen22 -- 6/16/2008 11:40:26 PM >

(in reply to daddysliloneds)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: I need Structure ! - 6/16/2008 11:36:58 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		Agreed. I would never attempt to establish structure with someone who clearly could not think and express in clear honest terms of what the expectations were.
 
 Trying this with someone who expects you to read her mind is absolutely futile.

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

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Profile   Post #: 77
RE: I need Structure ! - 6/17/2008 8:22:31 AM   
pr5sa1


Posts: 12
Joined: 5/10/2008
Status: offline 		BrattyBrandi,

I  must agree with others here.  I hve had a sub that was in the same situation. problem with me is that she was more of a switch then a sub.  I do think you need to submit to him, but if he is not willing to tell you what to do you may want to pursue other aves.  I would sit him down and speak with him.  You re the Sub here. but give him a chance.

good luck.

(in reply to brattybrandi)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: I need Structure ! - 6/17/2008 6:05:02 PM   
sinstech


Posts: 8
Joined: 5/25/2008
Status: offline 		Brandi, personally feel a lot of the problems may be due to the fact that you two have not quite worked out the dynamics of your relationship and the responsibilities that go with it. Personally if I did not have a totally committed submissive, I would be much more general and lax in my expectations. The problem comes with even being more lax, it does not take away from what you really want or expect. Would advise that you both sit down and talk about where your relationship is, and then what are the expectations from each other. Once that has been decided, then you both can look at whether the other's needs mesh with your own needs. Just my two cents.

(in reply to brattybrandi)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: I need Structure ! - 6/17/2008 6:29:27 PM   
Huntertn


Posts: 715
Joined: 10/7/2006
Status: offline 		hhmm...ok it seems to me he has taught you a thing or two already..and your learning...His is a laid back style..and Now you have to learn How to live within his world...and from what I've seen above in the last few..your learning all right.

                                                  Huntertn

(in reply to brattybrandi)
Profile   Post #: 80
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