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RE: Idolization of Dominants - 6/16/2008 8:49:04 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I had a tendency to do this in the beginning. He stopped it immediately. He knows he's human, with the stereotypical feet of clay. He knows he will get impatient and irritated. He doesn't want me expecting him to be godlike. And worshipping him puts him in that position of cannot do wrong. Which means he would be setting up a situation fraught with drama the moment he did fuck up.

Since he's smart enough to see this, he didn't allow it. Think about being young and expecting your parents to always know what you wanted or needed, and how you felt when you grew up enough to realize they were only human? Magical thinking is inappropriate after you've reached double digits in age.

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Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to toservez)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Idolization of Dominants - 6/16/2008 9:07:17 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		this slave adores, reveres, idolizes and worships Him as a mortal man.  that means embracing and adoring His mortal "flaws" as well.
 
it does not conflict with her connection to the divine or her personal relationship and worship of the Great Architect of the Universe.
 
it has contributed greatly to the enjoyment of our relationship.

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Idolization of Dominants - 6/16/2008 9:19:47 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

this slave adores, reveres, idolizes and worships Him as a mortal man.  that means embracing and adoring His mortal "flaws" as well.
 
it does not conflict with her connection to the divine or her personal relationship and worship of the Great Architect of the Universe.
 
it has contributed greatly to the enjoyment of our relationship.


Beautifully put.  You always say in about 3 sentences what takes me 3 paragraphs to write!

A perfect example of a healthy way to idolize the man.

_____________________________

Good is the enemy of great.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Idolization of Dominants - 6/16/2008 9:27:30 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

this slave adores, reveres, idolizes and worships Him as a mortal man.  that means embracing and adoring His mortal "flaws" as well.
 
it does not conflict with her connection to the divine or her personal relationship and worship of the Great Architect of the Universe.
 
it has contributed greatly to the enjoyment of our relationship.


Beautifully put.  You always say in about 3 sentences what takes me 3 paragraphs to write!

A perfect example of a healthy way to idolize the man.


aww, shucks, thanks ownedgirlie!!!
 
this slave loves cuddling up to the foot of His luxurious pedestal, filled with awe and admiration!!!

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Idolization of Dominants - 6/16/2008 9:42:11 AM   
MontrealPhoenix


Posts: 1526
Joined: 2/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

this slave adores, reveres, idolizes and worships Him as a mortal man.  that means embracing and adoring His mortal "flaws" as well.
 
it does not conflict with her connection to the divine or her personal relationship and worship of the Great Architect of the Universe.
 
it has contributed greatly to the enjoyment of our relationship.

Greetings beth,
 
Well put! Ignoring a person's faults won't make them go away. Accepting them is IMO to really be in love as opposed to merely feeling what has been called puppy love.
 
well wishes,
 
imp

_____________________________

"Only in a collar can a woman be truly free"
~Tribesmen of Gor ..pg 75

"He who ties a woman owns her"
~Guardsman Of Gor pg 267



(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Idolization of Dominants - 6/16/2008 10:31:46 AM   
daddysprop247


Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline 		like owned and beth, i idolize, revere and worship my Master as a human being, with all the imperfections that come with that. i don't understand the idea held by some that a thing/person must be flawless and infallible in order to be idolized. it is actually the honest, open and raw way in which he reveals his flaws to me and deals with those things that makes him all the more worthy of worship imo.

in my case, likely because i am agnostic and cannot claim a religion or belief in any "God", my Master has taken that place, i look up to him very much like a deity, with boundless love, reverence and fear. that is because he has such power over my life and destiny, and because he is really on his own just such an impressive human being. sometimes i can't help myself from scurrying up to him and showering his feet with kisses...i feel so honored that he has placed his eye upon me, and chosen me to serve him for life.

but is idolization necessary in D/s or even M/s? not imo. for some viewing the Master in such a way would be very inappropriate and could even be detrimental to the union. but for this slave? it just feels right.

(in reply to MontrealPhoenix)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Idolization of Dominants - 6/16/2008 10:38:59 AM   
thespiritedsub


Posts: 25
Joined: 6/7/2008
Status: offline 		I do not idolize my Master. I DO idolize certain qualities of him though. Things that he is that I will try long and hard to achieve, that he just.....IS

Idoliaztion of one person is never a good thing IMHO, because if they somehow let you down, the fall can completley and utterly destroy you.

(in reply to toservez)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Idolization of Dominants - 6/16/2008 12:09:35 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		Idolizing is often about projection. We project onto another person what we THINK and HOPE they are...and they're often not. One of my gurus, Master Skip, teaches that Masters stand in the projection and wait. There's nothing that you can do to change the projection...it must change on it's own. You can insist that you are not as they think you are, but until they experience that, they simply won't get it. It's hard to do this. I've had the experience of doing it once will full knowledges that it was happening and what the likely outcome would be. I told him right up front that it would happen and then let him decide to go through it or not. he chose to do it...with exactly the result I expected. We still talk and whatnot, of which I'm glad.

Of course, we do it, too. Humans just can't NOT do it.

Master Fire


_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
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(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Idolization of Dominants - 6/16/2008 12:20:07 PM   
WalterRego


Posts: 276
Joined: 12/28/2004
Status: offline 		Even when it comes to worship, neither a marble Goddess nor one with feet of clay are as tasty or awe inspiring as a woman with toes of flesh.

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Idolization of Dominants - 6/16/2008 12:20:33 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		I really hate it when some man wants to treat me like a "goddess".  I am an avatar of the goddess in certain rituals, but when I am not being a priestess, I am a HUMAN.  I don't like being objectified outside of a scene, and I do not like the pressure of having to be the Ultimate Everything.  I put more than enough pressure on myself, thanks! 



_____________________________

[page 23 girl]



(in reply to MasterFireMaam)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Idolization of Dominants - 6/16/2008 1:19:01 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline 		Thanks for all the great replies and they gave me a lot to think over.

For clarification, I am using a number of words in this OP to communicate a general concept I see present in power based relationships and am not necessarily using the literal definiton of idolize as to make a man a God. Whether it's respect, worship, reverence, admiration, devotion, adoration, or idolization, there is some driving element that places the word of one particular individual above the word of everyone else in the world. I still hold to my opinion that the placing of a Dominant on a pedestal is still something required, whether or not we use the word "idolize" to communicate it.

Nor do I think it neccesarily translates into a belief of one's self as being "better" or "superior" to the S type. I don't think of myself as superior. More important? Sure, but not superior. I don't look for or even encourage idolization or reverence of myself as some "God figure". The girls do that on their own and I enjoy and appreciate it. However, I do require the idolization and reverence of my "authority" in the relationship.

Hopefully, that makes sense.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Idolization of Dominants - 6/16/2008 1:28:41 PM   
daddysliloneds


Posts: 1351
Joined: 6/28/2006
Status: offline 		i can/do idolize and excessively adore my dominant partners; yet i'm smart enough to know that they're not 'god', and when their pedestal falls over, i can see them as human and idolize and adore them just as much!

i suppose it can be a double-edged sword if you live more in the romantic/fantasy mind-set.

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Idolization of Dominants - 6/16/2008 1:58:10 PM   
Wildfleurs


Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

Thanks for all the great replies and they gave me a lot to think over.

For clarification, I am using a number of words in this OP to communicate a general concept I see present in power based relationships and am not necessarily using the literal definiton of idolize as to make a man a God. Whether it's respect, worship, reverence, admiration, devotion, adoration, or idolization, there is some driving element that places the word of one particular individual above the word of everyone else in the world. I still hold to my opinion that the placing of a Dominant on a pedestal is still something required, whether or not we use the word "idolize" to communicate it.



I can't honestly say that I hold my owner above everyone else in the world.  I'm incredibly close to my immediate family and they are just as important as he is and he feels (I believe) similarly in the importance of family.  So even with your general definition of idolization which entails placing the dominant above everyone, it simply doesn't fit for us.

C~


_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Idolization of Dominants - 6/16/2008 2:06:41 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

Thanks for all the great replies and they gave me a lot to think over.

For clarification, I am using a number of words in this OP to communicate a general concept I see present in power based relationships and am not necessarily using the literal definiton of idolize as to make a man a God. Whether it's respect, worship, reverence, admiration, devotion, adoration, or idolization, there is some driving element that places the word of one particular individual above the word of everyone else in the world. I still hold to my opinion that the placing of a Dominant on a pedestal is still something required, whether or not we use the word "idolize" to communicate it.



I can't honestly say that I hold my owner above everyone else in the world.  I'm incredibly close to my immediate family and they are just as important as he is and he feels (I believe) similarly in the importance of family.  So even with your general definition of idolization which entails placing the dominant above everyone, it simply doesn't fit for us.

C~



Okay...fair enough.

So let me put what I am getting at in different terms...

If your Owner tells you to get off the couch and wash the dishes and you don't want to do it, are you gonna tell him to piss off or are you going to bite the bullet, get up, and do the dishes because he is your Owner?

The principle of what I am getting at is hard to communicate and I can't seem to find the perfect word to narrow it down.

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 6/16/2008 2:11:13 PM >

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to Wildfleurs)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Idolization of Dominants - 6/16/2008 2:09:11 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie
We don't see each others as "equals" in the relationship, so this works well for us.  I think the double -edged sword can occur when in their idolization, people forget the idolized is human and start to believe he or she is infallible.  The dom is going to make mistakes.  Can you still look up to him/her when they do?


A past girl and the current girl I am dating both gave/give me more credit then I think I am due. I've always been waiting for the other shoe to drop in part of my mind, but so far...it hasn't happened. Even after I have clearly demonstrated how human I am, they still look up to me. It makes me feel good about myself.

(And my ego certainly doesn't mind the worship aspects that are incorporated into the relationship)


MadRabbit you seam to have already ben using some of the thing that being when in that light can actually help us Domly Dom types. It kinda forces us to keep on our toes and stive to BE as they see us. It is a two edged sword and can be as much a detriment as a help. I find the ability to use that worship as real motivation to be better at what I do.


I get where you are coming from and I defiently agree.

We talk a lot about inspiring someone to submit, but I've found the poigancy of the experience of having someone to submit to you to be a powerful inspiration and motivator to just be a better guy then you were yesterday.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Idolization of Dominants - 6/16/2008 2:30:51 PM   
NeedingMore220


Posts: 615
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline 		Provided the idolization and worship comes from a pure place within the submissive, and he/she truly feels it, I think it's all good. When the Dom demands the worship or overly encourages the idolization ... then to me it turns manipulative and makes the relationship confusing.  I've found myself saying things or writing things that idolized my Dominant, to please him, but I didn't feel them way down deep inside.  I think that's the place the worship needs to come from.  Otherwise, it's hollow.  And yes, that's one reason I'm no longer in that relationship.  Also, it's a lovely quality for the Dominant to have a trace of humility - I find that highly attractive in a person that I find irresistible. 

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Idolization of Dominants - 6/16/2008 3:23:54 PM   
hiswetness


Posts: 30
Joined: 2/11/2008
Status: offline 		In response to MadRabbit's question...would i get up and do the dishes?? Yes, because i do idolize, adore, worship, love and trust him.  He thinks of me also, he would never ask or demand anything that would harm or hurt me.  i have been in other Dom/sub relationships.  i know the full value of my Master/Daddy.  He is all the things a good Dom/Daddy should be.  Does he have faults? yes!  Does he make mistakes? yes!  Does he do and say things that drive me crazy in good and bad ways? yes!   But , i would never change him.  All of the things he is and does make him exactly who and what i love and need.  It makes him perfect for me!

(in reply to NeedingMore220)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Idolization of Dominants - 6/16/2008 4:09:14 PM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		I don't idolise my Sir -  i love him as a man, and respect him as my dominant. I love him as a woman, and his needs and wants go ahead of mine. Sometimes that means i get off my butt and wash dishes - and don't feel resentment, because he is my dom, and washing dishes is one of the things he desires. Actually i can't think of any time that i have resented doing anything for my Sir.

I have seen the end of a relationship where the partner was on a pedastle, and it wasn't pretty. The one on the pedestal didn't want to be there -and proved her humanity in a most pointed way.

(in reply to NeedingMore220)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Idolization of Dominants - 6/16/2008 4:24:12 PM   
Wildfleurs


Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

Okay...fair enough.

So let me put what I am getting at in different terms...

If your Owner tells you to get off the couch and wash the dishes and you don't want to do it, are you gonna tell him to piss off or are you going to bite the bullet, get up, and do the dishes because he is your Owner?

The principle of what I am getting at is hard to communicate and I can't seem to find the perfect word to narrow it down.


Sure I'd get up and do the dishes, but I'm honestly not clear on the connectyion between doing what he wants and idolizing him.

C~


_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Idolization of Dominants - 6/16/2008 5:27:19 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

Nor do I think it neccesarily translates into a belief of one's self as being "better" or "superior" to the S type. I don't think of myself as superior. More important? Sure, but not superior. I don't look for or even encourage idolization or reverence of myself as some "God figure". The girls do that on their own and I enjoy and appreciate it. However, I do require the idolization and reverence of my "authority" in the relationship.

Hopefully, that makes sense.


In our relationship, we wouldn't even go as far as to say that he is more important. As in our quote, without me there to submit there is nothing for him to control. Without a target to hit, the flogger is just as useless as when there is no one to wield it.

He requires that I respect his authority and that I desire it over me, but at the same time we don't feel I need to have greater respect for it than he does my service.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 40
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