Idolization of Dominants

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MadRabbit -> Idolization of Dominants (6/15/2008 8:35:33 PM)
idolize To make an idol of, or to worship as an idol. To adore excessively; to revere immoderately. In my book, respect is the grease in the gears of a successful power based relationship. Respect for my character and who I am as a person and respect for my authority in the relationship. This isn't to say that respect that doesn't go both ways and that respect for a submissive isn't important, but I am just focusing on one side of the equation. As such, I have found that my successful power based relations always had some degree of idolization involved and will even go as far as to say that idolization of the dominant is a necessary element. Do you agree or disagree? Do you find that idolization of a person can be a double-edged sword? Placing someone on a pedestal can make the fall to the ground twice as hard when confronted with the problems of human fallacy.

lighthearted -> RE: Idolization of Dominants (6/15/2008 8:46:51 PM)
ooooooh boy. my first D/s relationship involved a lot of idolizing...me of him and him of me. in the end, the fall was more than just a fall, it was a massive crash and burn. that's an oversimplification of course, there were many other issues at play...but a part of it, nonetheless. I wouldn't say that a lesser degree of idolizing is bad, though. I admire my Daddy tremendously, for many things; I idolize him for things I can never be. I enjoy that aspect of our relationship, I don't feel less of myself for idolizing him.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Idolization of Dominants (6/15/2008 8:49:14 PM)
Yes, idolization happens and it can be a serious problem for a lot of people. This really is one of those "problems" that doms simply take advantage of- there'd be no idolization if the slave didn't idolize. Of course, there's nothing wrong with idolization of a slave either. As long as it's aware and justified, I don't have a problem with idolizing.

ownedgirlie -> RE: Idolization of Dominants (6/15/2008 9:01:22 PM)
I look up to him, I worship him, I am in awe of him, and I probably even idolize him. I also recognize him as a human who errs, but a good human none-the-less. Sure he'll make mistakes, but I worship and adore him anyway. There is no pedastol to fall from. He is a man - a powerful one at that - and somewhat of a Guru to me. We don't see each others as "equals" in the relationship, so this works well for us. I think the double -edged sword can occur when in their idolization, people forget the idolized is human and start to believe he or she is infallible. The dom is going to make mistakes. Can you still look up to him/her when they do?

MadRabbit -> RE: Idolization of Dominants (6/15/2008 9:07:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie We don't see each others as "equals" in the relationship, so this works well for us. I think the double -edged sword can occur when in their idolization, people forget the idolized is human and start to believe he or she is infallible. The dom is going to make mistakes. Can you still look up to him/her when they do? A past girl and the current girl I am dating both gave/give me more credit then I think I am due. I've always been waiting for the other shoe to drop in part of my mind, but so far...it hasn't happened. Even after I have clearly demonstrated how human I am, they still look up to me. It makes me feel good about myself. (And my ego certainly doesn't mind the worship aspects that are incorporated into the relationship)

mbes -> RE: Idolization of Dominants (6/15/2008 9:32:13 PM)
A necessary element? No, I wouldn't say so. That type of relationship doesn't appeal to me at all. I'm not happy "looking up" to someone in an intimate relationship, I prefer looking beside me, so to speak. All that means is that I wouldn't be compatible with someone who needs to be idolized, though; I'm sure it works great for others. Does that kind of thing work best when there is a belief in the fundamental superiority of one partner over the other, in your experience?

Quivver -> RE: Idolization of Dominants (6/15/2008 9:38:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit idolize To make an idol of, or to worship as an idol. To adore excessively; to revere immoderately. In my book, respect is the grease in the gears of a successful power based relationship. Respect for my character and who I am as a person and respect for my authority in the relationship. This isn't to say that respect that doesn't go both ways and that respect for a submissive isn't important, but I am just focusing on one side of the equation. As such, I have found that my successful power based relations always had some degree of idolization involved and will even go as far as to say that idolization of the dominant is a necessary element. Do you agree or disagree? Do you find that idolization of a person can be a double-edged sword? Placing someone on a pedestal can make the fall to the ground twice as hard when confronted with the problems of human fallacy. snicker ... I think idolization, you know that pedistal thing is like a penis. it's either Rock Hard, or it's Flacid. with that said, I try so hard not to Idolize. yes, at times I fail. ok, I try real hard to fail when I'm by myself. grin..... BUT, I Respect beyond measure and that is what keeps me on solid ground.

ownedgirlie -> RE: Idolization of Dominants (6/15/2008 9:41:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie We don't see each others as "equals" in the relationship, so this works well for us. I think the double -edged sword can occur when in their idolization, people forget the idolized is human and start to believe he or she is infallible. The dom is going to make mistakes. Can you still look up to him/her when they do? A past girl and the current girl I am dating both gave/give me more credit then I think I am due. I've always been waiting for the other shoe to drop in part of my mind, but so far...it hasn't happened. Even after I have clearly demonstrated how human I am, they still look up to me. It makes me feel good about myself. A person can definitely look up to and worship another human. As long as they understand it is a human they are worshipping, it's all good. quote: (And my ego certainly doesn't mind the worship aspects that are incorporated into the relationship) That's awesome, actually. My Master has made it no secret that he loves the ego stroke this gives him, and I love that it does. The better I can make him feel...well...the better it is!

oblige -> RE: Idolization of Dominants (6/15/2008 11:38:41 PM)
I agree. It has seemd to me to be a major part of any D/s power exchange for a sub to idolize/look-up to a Dom when we have some interest/chemistry with one another. It seems to go with the territory. If I did not look up to a Dom, I would not be sub, and his being Dom would be moot? Yes, I can see when some submissives may "over" idlolize a person, so it can be a double edged sword, and the fall is mostly in the minds of the particitpants. Being sensitive to the human-ness in us all makes the fall from any pedestal much softer. To me, part of submitting is knowing no one can be perfect or god-like. It is knowing as a s-type my task is to still submit my will and be supportive of who I submit to, especially when they be human or have down times with thier inherent humanity. I see no need for anyone to fall ovely hard or painful. To me, it is a matter of being as conscious as possible in relationships and communicating to the best of our abilities as we go. May we each have softer landings off the "pedestals" in our minds.

Usako -> RE: Idolization of Dominants (6/16/2008 12:50:11 AM)
I'm not into the whole idolizing and worshiping someone. I find it silly. I don't mind being pampered but it annoys me when it turns into worshiping. The only person I want to be an idol to is my children (if I ever have them.)

AquaticSub -> RE: Idolization of Dominants (6/16/2008 12:55:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit Do you agree or disagree? Do you find that idolization of a person can be a double-edged sword? Placing someone on a pedestal can make the fall to the ground twice as hard when confronted with the problems of human fallacy. We disagree. Valyraen does not want to be worshipped in any way, shape or form. He is a man, and only a man. He is the man I love and adore, but he is fundamentally fallible and human. He has no desire to worshipped or put on a pedestal in such manner because that is how I relate to God, not a human. To this end I am forbidden (by him) to give him a capital letter where not dictacted by the English language. To tell the truth, I could not be with someone who required that they be worshipped or idolized. To me, that would be asking me to see them as something better than myself and they simply aren't. They happen to be dominant and I happen to be submissive - together we form a wonderful relationship that suits our needs. Edited to add: This isn't to say that it doesn't work for others - simply that we strongly disagree with the concept that it has to be there.

MissMagnolia -> RE: Idolization of Dominants (6/16/2008 12:58:26 AM)
A person can definitely look up to and worship another human. As long as they understand it is a human they are worshipping, it's all good. Owned Girlie, that is spot on.

sambamanslilgirl -> RE: Idolization of Dominants (6/16/2008 5:24:02 AM)
if i happen to mention Daddy in my journal, i'm not idolizing Him but merely appreciating all that He has done for me. there's a distinct difference here - i'm not placing Him high on a pedestal to worship like a "God" ...He would never accept that from me. He's human like me and is bound to make mistakes like me.

littleone35 -> RE: Idolization of Dominants (6/16/2008 6:03:34 AM)
I most certinaly look up to my Master but idoloze him no that is not something he would not like me to do. He knows i love and adore him with all my heart and he would rather have my love more than idolization. Matt's littleone

Archer -> RE: Idolization of Dominants (6/16/2008 6:22:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie We don't see each others as "equals" in the relationship, so this works well for us. I think the double -edged sword can occur when in their idolization, people forget the idolized is human and start to believe he or she is infallible. The dom is going to make mistakes. Can you still look up to him/her when they do? A past girl and the current girl I am dating both gave/give me more credit then I think I am due. I've always been waiting for the other shoe to drop in part of my mind, but so far...it hasn't happened. Even after I have clearly demonstrated how human I am, they still look up to me. It makes me feel good about myself. (And my ego certainly doesn't mind the worship aspects that are incorporated into the relationship) MadRabbit you seam to have already ben using some of the thing that being when in that light can actually help us Domly Dom types. It kinda forces us to keep on our toes and stive to BE as they see us. It is a two edged sword and can be as much a detriment as a help. I find the ability to use that worship as real motivation to be better at what I do.

eepsy -> RE: Idolization of Dominants (6/16/2008 6:36:49 AM)
I love, respect and adore my Master a whole lot, but wouldn't go as far as to say I idolize him.. :) I don't know whether I'm right, but idolization gives me the impression that one ends up getting blinded by the faults and imperfection of the other, and I personally think that is dangerous in any relationship... because the sudden realization that he is actually imperfect will be disastrous.

Wildfleurs -> RE: Idolization of Dominants (6/16/2008 6:57:51 AM)
FR~ I don't view idolization as remotely necessary - I do see it more as a phase that some couples go through, but in a very general way I don't view it as something that can be sustained long-term without some effort to keep up appearances. I've seen my owner at very low and very high points and while I love, adore, and respect him I don't idolize or revere him, rather I love him for exactly who he is. C~

cantilena -> RE: Idolization of Dominants (6/16/2008 7:26:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit idolize To make an idol of, or to worship as an idol. To adore excessively; to revere immoderately. In my book, respect is the grease in the gears of a successful power based relationship. Respect for my character and who I am as a person and respect for my authority in the relationship. This isn't to say that respect that doesn't go both ways and that respect for a submissive isn't important, but I am just focusing on one side of the equation. As such, I have found that my successful power based relations always had some degree of idolization involved and will even go as far as to say that idolization of the dominant is a necessary element. Do you agree or disagree? Do you find that idolization of a person can be a double-edged sword? Placing someone on a pedestal can make the fall to the ground twice as hard when confronted with the problems of human fallacy. Like so many words, 'Idolize' has many different nuances to many different people. It gives me, personally, the warm fuzzies and has very pleasant connotations. To others, it may have nuances of unhealthy emotion. Because of this, I'm glad you included the verbatim definintion in your OP. Within that precise framework, I would say that no - idolization is not a necessary component for submission. Respect is a different story, and I think that is absolutely necessary. And... for me... with less stringent definition, and a softer nuance, one could definitely say I idolize my other. It's tempered, however, with a full understanding of his humanity and frailty of such. GREAT op. Thank you. {{edited for spelling error.}}

celticlord2112 -> RE: Idolization of Dominants (6/16/2008 7:47:30 AM)
quote: As such, I have found that my successful power based relations always had some degree of idolization involved and will even go as far as to say that idolization of the dominant is a necessary element. Do you agree or disagree? Disagree. Idolizing is toxic to any relationship. While a man should be dominant, and should rule his house and his women, he should always keep in mind that he is a man. He is just as likely to fuck up and make a mess of things as any of his slaves. The slaves have to realize this, so that when the mistakes happen the relationship has a chance to grow past them. Idolizing is a fundamental dishonesty, as it is tantamount to a willful blindness to the man's real faults and weaknesses. It is a denial of what must be true. And it's not pleasant when the golden boy is found to have feet of clay.

toservez -> RE: Idolization of Dominants (6/16/2008 8:29:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 quote: As such, I have found that my successful power based relations always had some degree of idolization involved and will even go as far as to say that idolization of the dominant is a necessary element. Do you agree or disagree? Disagree. Idolizing is toxic to any relationship. While a man should be dominant, and should rule his house and his women, he should always keep in mind that he is a man. He is just as likely to fuck up and make a mess of things as any of his slaves. The slaves have to realize this, so that when the mistakes happen the relationship has a chance to grow past them. Idolizing is a fundamental dishonesty, as it is tantamount to a willful blindness to the man's real faults and weaknesses. It is a denial of what must be true. And it's not pleasant when the golden boy is found to have feet of clay. I tend to agree with this. I think there is a big difference to being so in love with another that you cannot imagine a better person to be with and crossing the line to thinking they are a perfect human being to you even while throwing off a qualifier that you know they are human. To me idolizing is attachment near the highest order. It is giving another or something qualities that simply they do not possess. To me this is a self esteem thing as one is often feeding their lack of self esteem with idolizing. It is project perfection on my Master and because my Master is so perfect and he chose me that makes me awesome. But again there is a big difference in loving and thinking your other is great then giving them false qualities.

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